[Dave]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...ts/6740063.stm

Firstly, my condolences to the family and friends.

Again an incident like this begs the question as to whether we want our police officers to be armed.

They are expected to attend incidents like this every day with little more to protect them than a stab vest, a baton, some cs spray and a friendly demeanor.

Although the full circumstances are yet to be made public I can't help feeling that sending these officers out on the streets unarmed is simply getting too dangerous. Our police officers are here to protect us and IMHO it's only fair that we give them every chance to confront situations like this with adequate protection.

[Matt_C]

I personally feel that our officers should be armed in this day and age. Problem with that is going to be if and when officers have to use their guns, will they a) be able to to, and b) will they use them when they aren't imprerative to the situation?

[Mr Incredible]

Although I understand your reasoning, I have a suspicion that if the police get armed then the incidences of injured and killed policemen and women will increase due to the common thug "tooling up" to protect themselves.

We're one of the few police forces in the world who do not routinely arm their officers. I for one would like it to remain so.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Malice

We're one of the few police forces in the world who do not routinely arm their officers. I for one would like it to remain so.

Which is an ethos I completely agree with.

However, it seems we are getting to the point where criminals are better equipped than the police that are trying to catch them.

I just find it incredibly sad that a police officer died when even if he'd have had a taser it could have saved his life.

[Pack Dude]

We already have many armed police and if I remember correctly the last time the normal bobby was asked about it they siad NO to being armed. Guns are not a shield? Whos so say arming every police officer would give them better protection? I don't think it would.

[johnscarlet]

They hit the guy with batton rounds and a tazer , The officer is still dead .
I would guess that he went up to the guy to see what the problem was . He was then stabbed and the other officers hit him with the BR's and then the tazer . You have to ask the questions before you fire the rounds.

[Mep]

playing devils advocate, you might have more success with the questioning stage if you are pointing a gun at them!

[Duncan G]

An update from BBC News online.

http://newsbbc.co.uk/

Two other men still in hospital. It appears a window cleaner was washing the windows of a local store when he was stabbed in the back, then a second man got stabbed. The police arrive, including the officer who was fataly stabbed and a man taken into custody. I'm guessing it was a mugging that went wrong.

[lurcher]

A tragic incident like this will always fuel the debate for all police to be armed , remember its only a couple of months ago that an armed officer was murdered in this country.
Its the nature of the job that puts officers attending volatile incidents at risk , but the public rightly expect a quick response.
Thankfully it doesn"t happen very often , better training and equipment can reduce the risk .
I would imagine that armed officers would have been sent to that incident depending on the information received.
Sometimes officers feel obliged to put their life at risk specially if the public are threatened.
On a similar issue an officer shot a suspect dead in Kent earlier today.
Still tragedy for someone.

[Steven]

I remember reading an article sometime ago where a British officer visited the NYPD. I remember it as the officer said it was "like a Hollywood movie" (on describing a raid)

I too wish for our police force to remain unarmed. I understand the sentiments but imho it is a slippery slope

[johntheexpat]

http://www.odmp.org/year.php

Gives a list of American cops who have died in the line of duty. Since Jan over 30 american policemen have died from 'gunfire' with at least 3 listed as accidental. If you arm the police routinely, I personally believe, that many more will die.

[unique]

well if i was a criminal and the police carried guns, i'd want to carry a gun too. thing is, i'm not a criminal, and i imagine criminals are more evil minded than myself, so chances are that they would definately carry guns

remember the scene in heat where deniro tells pacino that if it's a case of facing 20 years in jail or shooting pacino/the cop, there's no decision necessary, the cop is a goner

theres too many guns on the streets as it is just now without putting more on the streets. the police aren't trained to use guns, and apart from certain select teams, they never have been, so to rollout a program arming all the police is just going to be another problem

if the police carried guns today, the headline would probably have read police officer shot to death in luton, rather than stabbed to death, and god knows how many more people might have been shot at the same time

[Steven]

Yeah in 'The Departed' I am reminded of the line "when you are facing a loaded gun, what difference does it make?" (if you are a cop or villain)

[johnscarlet]

LFC_SL , this may be the right time to ammend your sig ?

[Steven]

Do excuse me. Been up 12 hours now, travelled from Manc back to London so a little slow

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by johnscarlet

LFC_SL , this may be the right time to ammend your sig ?

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Do excuse me. Been up 12 hours now, travelled from Manc back to London so a little slow

I think JS thought your film quote would make a good signature

Dave

[Steven]

May be off topic slightly, but it is related somewhat trust me people

The actual line from imdb is
Frank Costello (played brilliantly by Jack Nicholson): When you decide to be something, you can be it. That's what they don't tell you in the church. When I was your age they would say we can become cops, or criminals. Today, what I'm saying to you is this: when you're facing a loaded gun, what's the difference?

As I said, slippery slope to allow normal 'beat cops' to be armed

[dub007]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

http://www.odmp.org/year.php

Gives a list of American cops who have died in the line of duty. Since Jan over 30 american policemen have died from 'gunfire' with at least 3 listed as accidental. If you arm the police routinely, I personally believe, that many more will die.

America is a big country with alot of crime!!!! how many police officers would have died without guns, we can only speculate.

Now look at euroupe with the countries what do have guns i think there police have alot of respect from the public.

[Steven]

Well of course Joe Public respect an officer walking past them holding a gun. I sure did when I came to London for the first time What about other elements of society?

[johnscarlet]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Do excuse me. Been up 12 hours now, travelled from Manc back to London so a little slow

Originally Posted by IronGiant

I think JS thought your film quote would make a good signature

Dave

The officers name was Jon Henry

[Steven]

Ahh yes, quite

The thing is, I'm sure most rational people understand there are people who share the same name in this world, which is unfortunate under circumstances such as this. If a mod PMs me to do so, I will delete it

[quarry2006]

I really have a hard time accepting that the world is suddenly such a wild and dangerous place. I work in what has often been statistically labelled the most violent, most racist, most dangerous town in Europe (I put no stock in stats, I'm just telling you what's been reported - a bit like the post that started all this): Birkenhead. It ain't a pretty place but I feel no less safe walking through it than any other town I've spent time in.

That said, I'd never choose to go drinking in the town after dark, and I'm built like a brick outhouse.

Are police really getting stabbed to death every day in this country? Blimey.

Anyway, I still say no to guns. As was said before, a gun is not a shield and arming the police is a reactionary step towards an even badder place.