Pure Evil

[bluesilver]

I don't know of anyone else has read about the young girl who is to be executed in iran for a crime she didn't commit, but this story is something that has touched me and made me completely furious. She basically admitted to killing someone when she was a child to cover up for her boyfriend. He convinced her to confess because he said she was under age so couldn't be convicted. Well they convicted her and sentenced her to death, even tho they boyfriend admits he did it and Amnesty carried out an investigation that proves she couldn't have commited the crime because she just wasn't strong enough and was even the wrong hand! But her last appeal has been rejected and she is to be hung in public by a crane..

If there are any Iranian's on this board, please, explain to me how life is valued to lowly in your country and how this kind of thing can happen. The west isn't perfect, far from it, but when you have these kinds of things going on, how can you expect us to understand your ways and your beliefs??

The worst thing is that Iran signed up to the treaty saying they wouldn't execute children, but what they do is arrest, charge and imprison children and just wait for them to reach 'adulthood' and then hang them! It is barbaric and evil and I hope the people who hand out these punishments and those who carry out the hangings burn in hell for their actions.

And she isn't even the only case.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/new...php?storyid=80

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/5217424.stm

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/new...p?storyid=8000

http://www.stopfundamentalism.com/in...=277&Itemid=71

http://www.iran-press-service.com/ip...a_161204.shtml


Please go to the Amnesty internation website below to be part of a petition to try and save her.

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/actions_de...asp?ActionID=9

[pixie003]

oh no thats horrible makes me feel sick just thinking of what that child is going through

[Setenza]

I am not defending Iran's actions by any means.

But you have partially hit the nail on the head.

This all comes down to rapidly different cultural values. These are shaped by religious doctrine.

As a result the children will die. In Iran's eyes they are justified in doing what they're doing.

You take a shocked perspective. Fine, I understand that.

Then you completely blow an semblance of a credible argument by saying

It is barbaric and evil and I hope the people who hand out these punishments and those who carry out the hangings burn in hell for their actions.

The concept of inherent evil and hell are just other instances of medieval Christian theological doctrine which in my opinion is no better than the dogma that shapes modern Iran.

Bottom line is you can't do anything about it. Neither can Amnesty. You can't invade a country and try and force upon them a culture that it alien to them. It doesn't work.

The solution? You leave them alone. Iran's people will some day change their own regime.

You must separate church and state to have a truly free culture. Religions are mainly monotheistic. They usually have rules that are considered absolute. Therefore this often represses free thinking and dissent.

Remember, some countries are only doing now what the inquisition did 500 years ago.

It is the doom of men that they forget.

[bluesilver]

I'm not actually that Christian. If at all. So the hell I was referring to was more of a case of IF there is one, I think these people deserve to go there.

To me it is just another reason why Religion causes more problems than it solves. I don't believe you need to follow a religion to be good, people often use religion to carry out their wishes by either bending it or following it without question.

At the end of the day, children are being hung up by cranes until they die. I don't see how any good, caring or intelligent person can think this is right.

And I wish people would rise up against this kind of thing but they are too scared to. After all, would you stand up for someone you don't know and risk death, knowing that your death is unlikely to change anything?

Religion might have good points but it's doctrine has killed millions of people. That is all I know.
And personally, I don't know of any other single thing that has had that effect on this world.

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Xusia Of Delos

I am not defending Iran's actions by any means.

But you have partially hit the nail on the head.

This all comes down to rapidly different cultural values. These are shaped by religious doctrine.

As a result the children will die. In Iran's eyes they are justified in doing what they're doing.

You take a shocked perspective. Fine, I understand that.

Then you completely blow an semblance of a credible argument by saying

The concept of inherent evil and hell are just other instances of medieval Christian theological doctrine which in my opinion is no better than the dogma that shapes modern Iran.

Bottom line is you can't do anything about it. Neither can Amnesty. You can't invade a country and try and force upon them a culture that it alien to them. It doesn't work.

The solution? You leave them alone. Iran's people will some day change their own regime.

You must separate church and state to have a truly free culture. Religions are mainly monotheistic. They usually have rules that are considered absolute. Therefore this often represses free thinking and dissent.

Remember, some countries are only doing now what the inquisition did 500 years ago.

It is the doom of men that they forget.

whilst I agree with your sentiments anger and revulsion are perfectly understandable just as the desire to right a wrong is.

[bluesilver]

to right a wrong?

which 'wrong' are you referring to?

[johntheexpat]

After her execution Rezai said her punishment was not execution but he had her executed for her “sharp tongue”.
(taken from your first link)

There will come a time when the people themselves will put a stop to this kind of 'justice'. But until that time all we can do is help publicise it by doing what you have done and tread a careful path between our cultures. So, well done bluesilver, for bringing it to our attention, you won't save the lastest child, but maybe somewhere down the line your posting will make a difference.

[RMCF]

This is also loads of 'pure evil' in the West.

Do you think every person put to death in the US was guilty? Or do you even think putting another human being to death is acceptable?

What about carpet bombing innocent civilians and killing tens of thousands of children in an unjust war. Is that not the height of pure evil?

[krish]

Originally Posted by bluesilver

If there are any Iranian's on this board, please, explain to me how life is valued to lowly in your country and how this kind of thing can happen. The west isn't perfect, far from it, but when you have these kinds of things going on, how can you expect us to understand your ways and your beliefs??

I believe the ordinary Iranian is just as disgusted by this as you and I are; ex-pat Iranians probably more so

And yes the west isn't perfect ... countless miscarriages of justice or mitigation with (mainly black) people sent to the chair or lethally injected in the US

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by bluesilver

to right a wrong?

which 'wrong' are you referring to?

When someone suffers an injustice as these poor young girls have, its quite natural to want to "right a wrong" even though its completely impractical , impossible and likely to make a situation worse. What happens in Iran regarding so many is nothing short of barbaric as its is ain many other troublked parts oif the world such as Zimababwe.One can only hope that the people overthrow these tyranical regimes

[Geofbob]

Sorry, but I don't fully understand the point RMCF and Krish are trying to make. They appear to be saying that just because injustices - including unlawful killing by the State - occur in the West, a Westerner such as bluesilver should not condemn Iran for this horrible event. They should bear in mind the dictum usually attibuted to Edmond Burke that "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." And even if there is little that most "good men" can do, at least they can speak or write, as bluesilver did.

[RMCF]

Bottom line is that terrible things happen all over the world.

As you say, little we can do will affect the outcome of the girl in Iran. But that is their way.

My point was that we do our own barbaric things, so why go to Iran to quote an example. There are examples all around us, and loads are carried out by the so-called 'good' people.

I am not trying to justify Iranian law. I too think this story is terrible, but tell me what I could do to save her and I'll do it. Its just that there is nothing that can be done, except if there is an uprising against it from within.

While is is considered acceptable in Iran it will continue to happen.

[bluesilver]

I am against capital punishment full stop and yes, in the west we are guilty of more than enough death. Both in our nations and in the ones we invade or have invaded.
So yes, I could have mentioned about the ones at our own nations hands and not Irans', but injustice is injustice and as far as I'm aware, we abolished capital punishment many years ago and that is where my arguments starts and finishes. I didn't want to get involved in invasions because that is a whole different affair. This is internal justice within a country, killing children, mentally ill children too. The US has at times exectuted the mentally ill and the poor, but at least children are not executed routinely.

I am not a racist by any means, but how am I supposed to feel kinship with another civilisation that strings children up by a crane until they die? Because it is their belief and I should accept that because I should not judge or think badly of them? I should respect them no matter how repugnant their actions are?
I think the world is full of people too eager to murder, in anyone's or anything's name. Be that in the west or the east. But I don't think we have hung young people for words they said or other 'crimes' they commited as children.

I don't think it is surprising there is racism in this world, especially religious racism, by every religion, when people see murder being commited so wantonly and without compassion or sense.

So, if me not understanding exactly WHY this person has to hang, or others like her, shows a lack of respect for another nation then I'm sorry, I do not respect that nation. Life should be nurtured and protected, not wiped out like this.
And if those responsible for taking such lives can live with themselves, I'm not sure what that says about their beliefs or their culture.
We in the West are not perfect, FAR from it, both historically and culturally, but there would be riots on the streets if any child was executed in this country.
Because on every single level, hanging children is just wrong and it is evil.

And if we ever can understand it, or understand Iranian's justification for it, I guess the question that is left to us would be "what would we have become if we can understand that the hanging of children is the right thing to do?

What kind of person would we be?

If God is up there, I wonder if he can see the irony of all this. You have me, someone not that religious, saying that life is sacred. And yet there are countries killing people because of their religious/cultural beliefs.

If it wasn't so tragic you'd have to laugh.

[bjd]

Originally Posted by bluesilver

If there are any Iranian's on this board, please, explain to me how life is valued to lowly in your country and how this kind of thing can happen. The west isn't perfect, far from it, but when you have these kinds of things going on, how can you expect us to understand your ways and your beliefs??

Substitute Israelis for Iranians, and soldiers using Palestinian children for target practice for hanging children from cranes and ask the same question.

[IronGiant]

OK this is an emotive subject and understandably so, but this thread is only going to go one way from here on in.

Please follow the Original Posters advise and go here if you want to make your mark:

http://www.amnesty.org.uk/actions_de...asp?ActionID=9

Dave, Mod.