Are we living in a Matrix? Could we ever?

Paul_HDLover · 06-02-2007, 12:21 PM

Are we living in a matrix? Could we in future be living in a matrix?

OK, just to confirm, i am not high, but I have been thinking about the meaning of life,
in particular why we are here, doing our thing, typing on computers, how we are so perfect
for living this life i.e. hands, feet, nose, ears with a brain. Also the word 'Garage' has been
annoying me. If you repeat it over and over again, you kind of lose the association of the
word and the process of getting your car fixed.

Anyway, when we are not here, we go to heaven, we go to hell, we go nowhere. There is a
god, there is not a god, god is a man. All unknowns, but yet things we follow. They could be
true or might not be false.

Back to topic, the way advancement of medical science is evolving, will the world reach a point
where we don't die and thats the end? What I mean is we could continue to live our current lives
with our current families in a matrix style invented world. This would involve backing up all data
on your brain and being able to dump it to a mass computer program that contains the world as it is now
except its a virtual world. You still do your thing as you do now except you dont get ill, there is no
global warming etc. In essence we could create our own heaven where we could assure those we
love could be around us for ever. Your soul lives on in a world with less problems. Those who
have lived good wholesome lives go to this created heaven. Those that have not lived wholesome
lives are left behind.

There would ofcourse be problems with this invented world in that it would require the host universe
to still be in place otherwise it would be destroyed.

Perhaps we are already in a world and are being monitored (Not the internet :-p)

Bat-man · 06-02-2007, 12:22 PM

Crikey!
------

Battlestar · 06-02-2007, 12:25 PM

Sounds good, as long as the computer your using to store that datta is not run by windows vista!

Singh400 · 06-02-2007, 12:26 PM

No because that would be boring. I like unexpected things to happen....although if you expected the unexpected, then it ceases to become unexpected to expected!

Paul_HDLover · 06-02-2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Singh400

No because that would be boring. I like unexpected things to happen....although if you expected the unexpected, then it ceases to become unexpected to expected!

dying is expected, so from what your saying you dont like the thought of that because its expected? Therefore you like the idea of dying no less than moving into my virtual world.

Paul_HDLover · 06-02-2007, 12:31 PM

Dave, defo running this program on Windows 2000. Its taken 7 years, but its fairly stable. :-0

GasDad · 06-02-2007, 12:49 PM

You are assuming that we are actually alive now.

The proponents of the Simulation argument would bed to differ with you.

Basically:

In our universe and time, it is likely in the future that computer simulations will have reached the stage where whole worlds and their populations can be simulated extremely accurately. Such that the 'human' simulations 'living' in the simulation don't know that they are doing so.

Of course once we have such computer power and such simulations are possible, we will doubtless run thousands of them (for historical research, fun etc).

Given that there will then be a many magnitudes more simulations than the single reality - it is more than likely that we are now living in a simulation.

More at Wiki

Appologies if this ruins your day.(it did mine when I first came across it)

James

Paul_HDLover · 06-02-2007, 12:55 PM

That fits in with what im saying. Admission that we will be able to recreate the world, leaves us only to identify ways to dump our brain onto a computer and live on.

I am not making any assumptions regarding life or death. In fact I mean to infer that we may not be alive given the fact everything is so perfect i.e. nose to breathe, tongue to taste, eyes to see etc etc.

We could be there already, but maybe we aren't.

The problem with technology is that as soon as you are able to simulate life with the use of computers, computers then essentially are running the show.

OldAndSenile · 06-02-2007, 1:13 PM

Surely any theory that proposes that we're all living in some big machine ignores that fact that we are all conscious, sentient beings? How would you transfer THAT onto a computer?

timothyw · 06-02-2007, 1:23 PM

This discussion wouldn't be complete without a mention of the technological singularity

GasDad · 06-02-2007, 1:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldAndSenile

Surely any theory that proposes that we're all living in some big machine ignores that fact that we are all conscious, sentient beings? How would you transfer THAT onto a computer?

The simulation argument does not rely on any kind of transfer, but ignoring that:

Please give a reason why you think the human brain cannot be simulated ? (sure we probably can't do it now - but in the future ?)

Lets take your brain... if we open your head up and replace one neuron with an electronic device designed to behave exactly the same way (ie respond to neural stimuli etc) would you be able to tell the difference.

If we repeat the process with 10 nerons, 1000 etc.

If we can do it with hardware, we can (or will be able to) do it with software simulating the hardware.

Of course if you believe in Souls etc then all bets are off.

Me I'm off to look for glitches in the system.

James

**unique** · 06-02-2007, 1:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldAndSenile

Surely any theory that proposes that we're all living in some big machine ignores that fact that we are all conscious, sentient beings? How would you transfer THAT onto a computer?

use a null modem serial cable

Kebabhead · 06-02-2007, 1:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldAndSenile

Surely any theory that proposes that we're all living in some big machine ignores that fact that we are all conscious, sentient beings? How would you transfer THAT onto a computer?

We are already on the way. Look at the Sat Nav. The fact here we have an electronic box which now tells you where to go has basically removed the function of the brian.

I mean look at the TomTom advert where the bloke is acting like a dummy because he hasn't got his SatNav to tell him where to go.

We are becoming more and more reliant on technology as a means of improving our lives but it creates as many problems as it solves

OldAndSenile · 06-02-2007, 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Day

The simulation argument does not rely on any kind of transfer, but ignoring that:

Please give a reason why you think the human brain cannot be simulated ? (sure we probably can't do it now - but in the future ?)

Lets take your brain... if we open your head up and replace one neuron with an electronic device designed to behave exactly the same way (ie respond to neural stimuli etc) would you be able to tell the difference.

If we repeat the process with 10 nerons, 1000 etc.

If we can do it with hardware, we can (or will be able to) do it with software simulating the hardware.

Of course if you believe in Souls etc then all bets are off.

Me I'm off to look for glitches in the system.

James

On that premise, you could create an artificial version of me, with all my neurons electronically identical while I was still alive, and it would be an exact copy of me, but it wouldn't be ME. Or are you saying my consciousness would span both me's? I'd still know which one is me, surely?!

partyweb · 06-02-2007, 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Day

... Me I'm off to look for glitches in the system.

Don't you just love love those amazon prricing errors.

GasDad · 06-02-2007, 1:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldAndSenile

On that premise, you could create an artificial version of me, with all my neurons electronically identical while I was still alive, and it would be an exact copy of me

Indeed

Quote:

but it wouldn't be ME.

How do you know it wouldn't ?

Quote:

Or are you saying my consciousness would span both me's? I'd still know which one is me, surely?!

To me conciousness is simply the manefestation of thought - so I can't see any reason why it would span anything.

How would you know which is which? - though admittedly you would both start to have different experiences and hence end up different quite quickly.

Task for the day:

Prove you (and the rest of us for that matter) are not part of a computer simulation.

Unfortunately proving that we are part of computer similuation is likely to be easier though probabaly still impossible (if you discount GAME OVER appearing in the sky lol)

James

GasDad · 06-02-2007, 1:52 PM

Extra thought for the day.

You all know time seems to go faster as we get older. You do realise of course this is simply because 'they' keep upgrading the simulation hardware each year.

OldAndSenile · 06-02-2007, 1:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Day

How would you know which is which?
James

Because I'm one of them! I'd know which one I was, so I'd know I wasn't the other one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Day

Task for the day:

Prove you (and the rest of us for that matter) are not part of a computer simulation.
James

The day I wake up to a Blue Screen of Doom, or my lounge turns into a big black void with the text "UPGRADE TO LIFE 2.0 NOW TO CONTINUE PLAYING", I'll believe you.

Until that time I'll keep assuming this is the only chance I get and my coffin lid won't read "Abort/Retry/Cancel" on the inside...

Paul_HDLover · 06-02-2007, 2:00 PM

Also, think about space for a minute. We hardly know anything about it, but if the universe is endless, or part of something even bigger, then it would be naive to think we are alone. After all, we have made it this far, if you can believe that, you must then believe others have aswell. Or have we at all?

Mr.D · 06-02-2007, 2:06 PM

Personally I think we all inhabit our own "prime" universe. In that "prime" universe you never die . Any time you are close to death you eventually make a full recovery, in the event of sudden death situations you miraculously survive.

In all other universes ( the ones that are not your "prime" universe) you appear to expire as normal as does everyone else who is not the "prime" inhabitant. So your prime universe continues with you in it and the non-prime universes calve off as they have someone other than you as the prime inhabitant.

In your "prime" universe everyone else eventually dies except you and you eventually attain the status of god in your own prime universe regardless of the path and regardless of the timescale...its a certainty.

And the important thing is that from your personal perspective you never actually expire. Unfortunately you lose everyone else eventually but its all part of making you attain the godhead.

mad_matt · 06-02-2007, 2:14 PM

ok I vote this thread for the 'most likely influenced by weed' thread ever....

On the subject of eventually living forever......

Paul_HDLover · 06-02-2007, 2:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_matt

ok I vote this thread for the 'most likely influenced by weed' thread ever....

On the subject of eventually living forever......

You'd think so wouldnt you, I can assure you its not though. Im not into that ****.

GasDad · 06-02-2007, 2:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul_HDLover

You'd think so wouldnt you, I can assure you its not though. Im not into that ****.

At least this copy of you isn't.

A recent upgrade of you, running in an ancient rome simulation is currently having problems with simulated fermented grapes.

Paul_HDLover · 06-02-2007, 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Day

At least this copy of you isn't.

A recent upgrade of you, running in an ancient rome simulation is currently having problems with simulated fermented grapes.

yes V1.01 contained that malfunction. A software patch reelased in June 2003 resolved much of those issues.

Mr.D · 06-02-2007, 3:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_matt

ok I vote this thread for the 'most likely influenced by weed' thread ever....

On the subject of eventually living forever......

RMCF · 06-02-2007, 3:14 PM

Did you just watch Vanilla Sky ?

**Kieron** · 06-02-2007, 3:29 PM

Getting back on topic (seriously).

I think it's terrible that when you die, all your experiences and knowledge die with you. Imagine being able to upload your consciousness to a computer. Your great, great grandchildren could ask "you" questions based on your time in the world.

A slightly different slant on the OP's post. I'd love it if this were to happen. Why should everything I have learned, be wasted when my physical body can no longer sustain life...

And now back to the comic reactions to this thread. The matrix will be ran on a Mac!

OldAndSenile · 06-02-2007, 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron

And now back to the comic reactions to this thread. The matrix will be ran on a Mac!

If the matrix ran on a Mac, the entire universe would be just three white blocks and a load of really smug people.

Praxidike · 06-02-2007, 3:39 PM

I think it's possible. There's loads of things that could be explained if it were true... things like ghosts or whatever, things where there simply isn't a scientific explanation for thnigs, it's just 'glitches'.

I'd much sooner believe we're in a Matrix than believe any religion I've ever heard of, it's much more convincing.

Maybe we don't live in a computer simulation, but I think it's entirely possible we live in some sort of controlled society that goes above current human knowledge.

Paul_HDLover · 06-02-2007, 3:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxidike

I think it's possible. There's loads of things that could be explained if it were true... things like ghosts or whatever, things where there simply isn't a scientific explanation for thnigs, it's just 'glitches'.

I'd much sooner believe we're in a Matrix than believe any religion I've ever heard of, it's much more convincing.

Maybe we don't live in a computer simulation, but I think it's entirely possible we live in some sort of controlled society that goes above current human knowledge.

In that case Praxidike, you may now refer to me as 'God' or 'O'Lord'