[Drd]

What a horrible start to the year,my sympathy to this poor family

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/6222319.stm

But when you see statistics like these then why does anyone choose to have them as a pet?

[Woodywizz]

Originally Posted by Drd

What a horrible start to the year,my sympathy to this poor family

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/m...de/6222319.stm

But when you see statistics like these then why does anyone choose to have them as a pet?

Couldn't agree more - I would not let my kids anywhere near a Pitbull, to have one in the house - with a young child - is, in my opinion, madness.

Sympathies to the family.

[la gran siete]

I thought Pit Bulls were banned in the UK.If not, they should be

[Pat_C]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

I thought Pit Bulls were banned in the UK.If not, they should be

I agree that they should be banned and there have been many calls to do so, but I think there would be problems with the legal definition of a Pit Bull that had been cross bred.

They seem to be popular with drug dealers, and - as with the keeping of large snakes, tarantulas etc. - people with severe personality defects. I suspect the way that they are treated is as much as factor as the inherent nature of this breed.

I believe that many pet insurance policies exclude Pit Bulls, certainly as far as third party liability is concerned. It isn't difficult to see why.

Having said that, I wouldn't leave any dog alone with a child.

[GBDG1]

Originally Posted by Pat_C

I agree that they should be banned and there have been many calls to do so, but I think there would be problems with the legal definition of a Pit Bull that had been cross bred.

They seem to be popular with drug dealers, and - as with the keeping of large snakes, tarantulas etc. - people with severe personality defects. I suspect the way that they are treated is as much as factor as the inherent nature of this breed.

I believe that many pet insurance policies exclude Pit Bulls, certainly as far as third party liability is concerned. It isn't difficult to see why.

Having said that, I wouldn't leave any dog alone with a child.

They are illegal, Dangerous dogs act 1991:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welf...estic/dogs.htm

[Joe90sDad]

Originally Posted by Drd

But when you see statistics like these then why does anyone choose to have them as a pet?

I suspect it's a macho thing for many people. My dog's 'arder than yours.

I used to visit an old mate who lived above some shops and the only entrance was via a back alley. But half the time I had to watch out for this Japanese Tosa that a neighbouring family let loose there. Scared the crap out of me.

[Joe90sDad]

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

They are illegal, Dangerous dogs act 1991:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welf...estic/dogs.htm

American Pit Bulls are, I think, but other breeds of pit bull are not. As far as I understood it, anyway.

[Pat_C]

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

They are illegal, Dangerous dogs act 1991:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welf...estic/dogs.htm

Well that does address my point about cross breeds: if it looks like a Pit Bull then it is a Pit Bull. But this law does have exemptions, and doesn't seem to be very well enforced (although I don't envy anyone with the job of doing so).

[Mr_Wistles]

This was my understanding also.

[gosties]

I have always thought that type of breed of dog should be kept well away from kids. In my opinion they are no more than "a shark on leash". My condolences for the family concerned.

[Steven]

My condolences to the family

I would also like to add, for people to not only look at the dog but alos their human owners

[Singh400]

This is why I don't own cat/dog. No matter how much you train it, its always going to be an animal. Once those animal instincts kick in you've had it.

Really sad

[la gran siete]

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanpitbull.htm

Hmmm still wouldnt have one

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Singh400

This is why I don't own cat/dog. No matter how much you train it, its always going to be an animal. Once those animal instincts kick in you've had it.

Really sad

we alway had cats without any problems other than scratching furniture ,carpets etc. Much easier than dogs just not so respnsive

[Adrenochrome]

Originally Posted by Pat_C

Having said that, I wouldn't leave any dog alone with a child.

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

I would also like to add, for people to not only look at the dog but alos their human owners

Originally Posted by Singh400

No matter how much you train it, its always going to be an animal. Once those animal instincts kick in you've had it.

Quoted as the three most sensible statements on the thread.

[Pat_C]

Originally Posted by Singh400

This is why I don't own cat/dog. No matter how much you train it, its always going to be an animal. Once those animal instincts kick in you've had it.

Whilst that may be true up to a point, it would be as unfair to label all animals with the same tag as it would be to do likewise with humans. I would say that in general humans do far worse things to animals (and each other) than vice versa.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by Singh400

This is why I don't own cat/dog. No matter how much you train it, its always going to be an animal. Once those animal instincts kick in you've had it

I don't think you can label all domestic pets like that

Leaving aside exotic pets for obvious reasons, only a few breeds of dog will ever be dangerous to humans. I have a friend with a rottweiler (spelling?) which is surprising - in the respect that it is quite friendly given the reputation of the breed. Part of it is the dog (pit bulls), the rest is human training. That is the sad part for me

[Singh400]

Originally Posted by Pat_C

Whilst that may be true up to a point, it would be as unfair to label all animals with the same tag as it would be to do likewise with humans. I would say that in general humans do far worse things to animals (and each other) than vice versa.

Yes, but what I'm trying to say here. Is that when you have an animal in the house, there is some sort of pecking order (or thats what it appeared to, to the dog) now when a new person enters the family. The dog will automatically assume that it is above that person hence, why it thinks its allowed to be rough with that person - the same kind of behaviour you see in the wild.

Another problem that I often see is when people treat pets as people. That I can't just believe. A pet is a pet. Thats it. The minute you start treating a pet as a human equal - I will gurantee you will have some sort of trouble sooner or later.

To own pet you must ensure that you train it properly. You must ensure that, the pet knows its place. 99% of the problems you see with pets is down to poor training/mis-handling.

It's often the dogs that are percieved as most dangerous (rottweilers, german shepard etc), that are the most responsive/friendly dogs when trained properly.

[Pat_C]

Originally Posted by Singh400

now when a new person enters the family. The dog will automatically assume that it is above that person hence, why it thinks its allowed to be rough with that person - the same kind of behaviour you see in the wild.

Yes, resentment/jealousy of a new addition to the family is often cited (probably correctly) as the cause of attacks by dogs on young children.

Another problem that I often see is when people treat pets as people. That I can't just believe. A pet is a pet. Thats it. The minute you start treating a pet as a human equal - I will gurantee you will have some sort of trouble sooner or later.

I always treated my dog as if he was a child. It probably wasn't the best approach (made him quite demanding and dominant), but it never caused me any trouble or regret.

[raigraphixs]

Pit bulls amnesty

They are illegal in Northern Ireland, and destroyed. Is it a certain breed?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/n...nd/6219379.stm



...

[overkill]

The trouble is, as those statistics show, that the Pit bull as a breed is manifestly unsuitable as a family pet! The other 'dangerous' breeds such as the German Shepherd and Rottweiler are dangerous due to their huge size and strength. As someone said, Singh400 I think, if those breeds are trained and treated properly, and of course treated with the caution you should use with any animal, you won't get problems. The Pit bull and the various smaller cross breeds with bull terriers are, as they guy states in that report, unpredictable in the extreme, violent by nature, and I would never, no matter how well one has been 'trained' leave one with only an elderly person to watch it, and a small child.

They are, as someone else said, bought for one reason - machismo. Just listen to, and check out, the majority of the owners............ In our area they are a menace. If your dog is going to be attacked by another without warning you could lay the lottery winnings on it it will be a bull terrier.

[phillfyspoon]

Most of the time it is poor training and leadership, these dogs need strict training and if the owner isnt upto it the dog will become unruly and unpredicable. The tougher you are with dogs the more they love and respect u, do the oppisite and they will see u as a thing to rule and show u and others no respect.

Originally Posted by phillfyspoon

Most of the time it is poor training and leadership, these dogs need strict training and if the owner isnt upto it the dog will become unruly and unpredicable. The tougher you are with dogs the more they love and respect u, do the oppisite and they will see u as a thing to rule and show u and others no respect.

You sure about that? Do you own a dog? Animals especially dogs do not respond to 'toughness'. Be firm yes, be 'tough' and you will only create a nervous, skittish animal that is more likely to bite. I have owned Dobermans for over 25 years and it is only with training and kindness that you create a gentle and trustworthy animal.

What is most tragic in this whole story is that the uncle who owned the dog had been warned officially by the council about his dog's aggression. I feel so sorry about this poor little girl - it is a tragedy that could have been so easily avoided.

[jendo]

Found this quote on the site the op linked to.

However, while banning the pit bull might lower the number of human deaths, such a ban would probably not reduce the number dog bites in any significant manner. After the United Kingdom banned pit bulls in the 1990s, a study showed that the number of dog bites remained the same even though the number of pit bulls had steeply declined.

As a father of 2 young children who desperately want a pet dog I am somewhat reluctant at present.

[Drd]

I think,even more relevant,is this extract from the report

"If almost any other dog has a bad moment,
someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the
actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a
Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed."

I am a dog lover,I've always had a dog of some sort.Our beautiful Spinone died recently.She was the size of a small pony and 42kg with not an ounce of fat on her.However she was as gentle as a kitten and in her 10 years I never saw or heard her threaten anything other than the odd Tulip (don't ask).I'm not trying to put anyone off dogs,I think they are an essential part of a family and can teach children a great deal,but many people seem to be incapable of choosing the correct breed or type of dog to fit in with family life.

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by phillfyspoon

Most of the time it is poor training and leadership, these dogs need strict training and if the owner isnt upto it the dog will become unruly and unpredicable. The tougher you are with dogs the more they love and respect u, do the oppisite and they will see u as a thing to rule and show u and others no respect.

not quite right. Firmness yes ,being overly strict - no. Watch the tv dog care progs ie the ones about training unruly dogs. Its all about correct body language ,tone of voice discouraging unwanted behaviour - without shouting -and rewarding correct behaviour.Most dogs crave attention but it has to be right kind.

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Drd

I think,even more relevant,is this extract from the report

"If almost any other dog has a bad moment,
someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the
actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a
Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed."

I am a dog lover,I've always had a dog of some sort.Our beautiful Spinone died recently.She was the size of a small pony and 42kg with not an ounce of fat on her.However she was as gentle as a kitten and in her 10 years I never saw or heard her threaten anything other than the odd Tulip (don't ask).I'm not trying to put anyone off dogs,I think they are an essential part of a family and can teach children a great deal,but many people seem to be incapable of choosing the correct breed or type of dog to fit in with family life.

Yes! It would seem that for too nmany they are a fashion accesory. Bull Mastiffs are apparently very fashionable in Liverpool. The then there is the mach element . For some dogs are seen as a weapon. It is these that turn on unfortunate passerbys.The owners should be prosecuted and banned from ever owning a dog .

[Jammyb]

I'm firmly in the blaming the owner more than the breed of dog camp.

Lot of talk about training. Socialising from a young age is just as important. I read in one of the stories about this tragic incident that the grandmother managed to get the dog into it's run/cage outside. Doesn't sound like the dog was part of the family if it was kept in a run outside, I wouldn't have let it near a small child without very close supervision.

As I plan to have children and a dog I shall be thinking carefully about what breed I get and it will be chosen based on temperament rather than looks.

This is a good place to start
http://www.petplanet.co.uk/petplanet/breeds/index.htm

[DLPMaybe]

The owner should be on a manslaughter charge.

[mjn]

The question which should be asked is:

Why wasn't the dog muzzled?