This is just awful. Two more bodies found today. There is some maniac out there and let us hope they catch him ASAP. So disturbing that we still have serial killers in this day and age.

[Dave]

It won't be long before they catch the psycho, it's almost as if he wants to be caught.

A disturbing situation without a doubt.

[Squiffy]

Fingers crossed he is caught soon.

I think this is going to reignite the debate about legalisation of prostitution. If these women were able to work legally in regulated premises, they'd be far safer.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Squiffy

Fingers crossed he is caught soon.

I think this is going to reignite the debate about legalisation of prostitution. If these women were able to work legally in regulated premises, they'd be far safer.

I agree, a walk round Amsterdam's red light district really does show you how it should be done. I didn't find it anywhere near as seedy as some of the red light districts round here.

There will always be prostitutes and a plentiful supply of punters so why not legalise it and make it safer for everyone. The government could even tax it.

Well I hope that the police nationwide take heed of what is happening and change their policing tactics accordingly. They should be out there protecting prostitutes in red light areas now as who know where this sicko will go next. There were a lot of lessons to be learned after Peter Sutcliffe, I hope they have sunk in.

[LCR_Dave]

this is all happening a few miles up the road from me, makes me wonder if its some dudes wife and she caught him kerb crawling! and is now taking revenge on the prostitute community!

[Pat_C]

Originally Posted by Daerve

There will always be prostitutes and a plentiful supply of punters so why not legalise it and make it safer for everyone.

I'm pretty sure that prostitution per se isn't actually illegal here, and never has been. Soliciting is (by the customer or service provider), as is running a brothel, which I believe is defined as two or more girls working at the same premises.

I agree it would be much better if the girls were allowed to work in a safer, controlled environment as is the case in many other countries. But of course, that means dealing with the objections from the suburban puritans who foam at the mouth and write to The Times every time this idea is mentioned.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Pat_C

I'm pretty sure that prostitution per se isn't actually illegal here, and never has been. Soliciting is (by the customer or service provider), as is running a brothel, which I believe is defined as two or more girls working at the same premises.

I agree it would be much better if the girls were allowed to work in a safer, controlled environment as is the case in many other countries. But of course, that means dealing with the objections from the suburban puritans who foam at the mouth and write to The Times every time this idea is mentioned.

Another case of the NIMBY'S.

The prostitutes in Holland even have to keep their nails short so as not to harm their clients.

It's crazy that in this day and age prostitution is forced underground. I'm not saying Holland has it perfect but surely it's better and safer for all involved to have the sex industry regulated and controlled.

To be fair to the police here though they rarely prosecute the prostitutes themselves, much better to go after the punters.

[MrFurious]

its a very bad situation, hope they catch the killer/killers soon

[Pat_C]

Originally Posted by Daerve

Another case of the NIMBY'S.

That's certainly a part of it. The other aspect are the 'Enraged of Tunbridge Wells' types who take the view that if this sort of filth is encouraged we will all become depraved sex maniacs, and possibly even decide that a cup of tea is not the preferred option after all. It just isn't British you know.

The prostitutes in Holland even have to keep their nails short so as not to harm their clients.

I have to admire the trouble you have taken in your research

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Pat_C

I have to admire the trouble you have taken in your research

I've been to Amsterdam a few times but have never indulged in the local pleasures (except for the excellent herbal cigarettes).

It is funny though how some people think legalising something is akin to encouraging it. I think decriminalisation is a much better term than legalise.

The question is if prostitution were decriminalised would any of those 5 women still be with us and the answer is probably yes.

[Jammyb]

Do you think it's the illegal nature of prostitution that's motivating the killer?

[stevedster]

my fear now is that the prostitutes in the area will no doubt not be out or on their guard, the killer might start to go for other women whenever getting the chance.

[Pat_C]

Originally Posted by Daerve

I've been to Amsterdam a few times but have never indulged in the local pleasures (except for the excellent herbal cigarettes).

It is ideal for window shopping too. I went to a live sex show there once (obviously by accident) and was surprised to see as many women as men in the audience

The question is if prostitution were decriminalised would any of those 5 women still be with us and the answer is probably yes.

I agree. But nothing changed after Sutcliffe, and I suspect these latest tragic incidents will change nothing either. In this country we seem much better at ranting a little and then forgetting about things and hoping that they don't happen again, than we are at taking decisive action that might actually make a difference.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Jammyb

Do you think it's the illegal nature of prostitution that's motivating the killer?

Possibly. The odd nature of the killings also means it may not be a man. So, the nature of the victims is key, regardless of the killers gender.

What's even more worrying is the pace of the attacks. The Killer seems to be becoming more active - and therefore bold as they get away with each one.

Serial killers still with us? They seem to be more common in the modern World.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Jammyb

Do you think it's the illegal nature of prostitution that's motivating the killer?

I have no idea what's motivating the killer.

I meant in the context that had prostitution been decriminalised then it's highly unlikely these women would have been on the streets.

There are security guards every where in Amsterdam including in and outside the brothels so if it was decriminalised here the women would be protected properly rather than left to fend for themselves on the street.

[WibXL]

Originally Posted by Jammyb

Do you think it's the illegal nature of prostitution that's motivating the killer?

Could be or it could just be that prostitutes are an easy target as they're more willing to get in a car with a total stranger and wont find it out of the ordinary to drive to a secluded place.

No, notorious serial killers were very much on the wane from the 90s onwards as so many advances have been made in forensic technology, that dentifying and catching them quickly has been mostly possible. Hopefully this will be the case now, although the police have said that this killer appears to be very forensically aware.

[sinizterguy]

Originally Posted by jakal

No, notorious serial killers were very much on the wane from the 90s onwards as so many advances have been made in forensic technology, that dentifying and catching them quickly has been mostly possible. Hopefully this will be the case now, although the police have said that this killer appears to be very forensically aware.

If you watch enough of CSI and the like and read some forensic books, and actually understand and absorb whats there - there is quite a high chance that you'll know more about forensics that some of the cops.

The main secret that CSI gave out was that bleach destroys DNA and since that has become common knowledge, a lot of criminals are trying to use it to remove DNA evidence.

[GBDG1]

Originally Posted by stevedster

my fear now is that the prostitutes in the area will no doubt not be out or on their guard, the killer might start to go for other women whenever getting the chance.

Because if someone is a prostitute it is somehow less of a tragedy than if they do a different job?

[Jammyb]

Originally Posted by Daerve

I have no idea what's motivating the killer.

I meant in the context that had prostitution been decriminalised then it's highly unlikely these women would have been on the streets.

There are security guards every where in Amsterdam including in and outside the brothels so if it was decriminalised here the women would be protected properly rather than left to fend for themselves on the street.

True but in Amsterdam it's part of the tourist industry and the girls come from far and wide.

Whereas perhaps these girls in small town England wouldn't want to sit in a window as the people they went to school with walk past.

There's always going to be people who operate outside of whatever kind of 'industry' you could concieve.

[GBDG1]

Originally Posted by Jammyb

True but in Amsterdam it's part of the tourist industry and the girls come from far and wide.

Whereas perhaps these girls in small town England wouldn't want to sit in a window as the people they went to school with walk past.

There's always going to be people who operate outside of whatever kind of 'industry' you could concieve.

It's not just Amsterdam that has a red light district. Every town/city in Holland has one. They also provide safe areas for street prostitutes where they can take 'punters'.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Jammyb

True but in Amsterdam it's part of the tourist industry and the girls come from far and wide.

Whereas perhaps these girls in small town England wouldn't want to sit in a window as the people they went to school with walk past.

There's always going to be people who operate outside of whatever kind of 'industry' you could concieve.

Indeed but even if only half of the women worked in regulated premises that's half of them in considerably less danger than before.

I'm not saying Amsterdam is the model to go for because as you mentioned a lot of it is for the tourism industry but brothels exist here now so why not keep it discrete and allow them to advertise in certain publications without fear of prosecution. They don't have to be bladdered in red signs or have women in the windows.

[Mylo]

out of respect can we please think carefully before posting in this thread

[Woodywizz]

I too am appalled at this situation in Suffolk, this type of killing is extremely rare and is probably unprecedented in the UK. The bloke doing this should not be categorised as a "serial killer", he is a "spree killer". A "serial killer" commits 5+ murders, with a cooling off period generally between each murder, and their crimes tend to span months/years. Think of a "spree killer" as a serial killer, but at warp speed - usually killing 5+ victims over the course of about 4 weeks. The Suffolk killer is a classic "spree killer" with classic traits.

The dumping of the bodies is becoming more and more sporadic and disorganised. The first two victims were placed in running water, which indicates some degree of planning and thought toward the destruction of evidence. The last 3, being dumped out in the open and at close proximity to roadsides, indicates the increasing lack of care about capture. This could indicate a desire to be caught, or - more seriously - an increasing "devil may care" attitude toward killing and it's consequences.

I would suggest that there may be a maximum of 2 more murders/attempted murders...I say attempted because I believe that he will probably be caught whilst trying to lure one more victim. The worrying factor now will be that the police are so caught up in concentrating on the "prostitute" element, that he will now choose a victim out of a completely different demographic - that will show a degree of cunning which will have both police and public worried.

He will be in his mid 30s to mid 40s, with a partner - motive will not be sexual but will be revenge based, probably borne from rejection suffered recently. Whilst the case is fascinating from a criminal psychology point of view, it is also disturbing and one must feel for the families of these women.

I will watch the case with great interest.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by jakal

No, notorious serial killers were very much on the wane from the 90s onwards as so many advances have been made in forensic technology, that dentifying and catching them quickly has been mostly possible. Hopefully this will be the case now, although the police have said that this killer appears to be very forensically aware.

Sorry Jackal, I meant in the 20th Century rather than the last ten years. I agree, in that context there is a greater likelihood of catching the perpetrator now, than say 25 years ago.

Hopefully that will prove the case this time. We certainly could do with the killer being caught before another wave of murders follows. It worries me that five could take place in such a short space of time, without any motive beyond the girls trade.

Agreed Mylo. While the Amsterdam thing is related, the nitty gritty isn't needed in this context.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by overkill

While the Amsterdam thing is related, the nitty gritty isn't needed in this context.

I agree and my apologies for any disrepect, there was none intended.

Lets hope there is a speedy conclusion to these horrible crimes.

[signs]

Originally Posted by woodywizz

I too am appalled at this situation in Suffolk, this type of killing is extremely rare and is probably unprecedented in the UK. The bloke doing this should not be categorised as a "serial killer", he is a "spree killer". A "serial killer" commits 5+ murders, with a cooling off period generally between each murder, and their crimes tend to span months/years. Think of a "spree killer" as a serial killer, but at warp speed - usually killing 5+ victims over the course of about 4 weeks. The Suffolk killer is a classic "spree killer" with classic traits.

The dumping of the bodies is becoming more and more sporadic and disorganised. The first two victims were placed in running water, which indicates some degree of planning and thought toward the destruction of evidence. The last 3, being dumped out in the open and at close proximity to roadsides, indicates the increasing lack of care about capture. This could indicate a desire to be caught, or - more seriously - an increasing "devil may care" attitude toward killing and it's consequences.

I would suggest that there may be a maximum of 2 more murders/attempted murders...I say attempted because I believe that he will probably be caught whilst trying to lure one more victim. The worrying factor now will be that the police are so caught up in concentrating on the "prostitute" element, that he will now choose a victim out of a completely different demographic - that will show a degree of cunning which will have both police and public worried.

He will be in his mid 30s to mid 40s, with a partner - motive will not be sexual but will be revenge based, probably borne from rejection suffered recently. Whilst the case is fascinating from a criminal psychology point of view, it is also disturbing and one must feel for the families of these women.

I will watch the case with great interest.

good post Fitz...

[GBDG1]

I think they will be caught by CCTV. The likelihood is that they will have to use their own car or a hire car. There is CCTV everywhere these days so all you would need is a CCTV camera in or around the red light district. Then you question everyone who has been seen in the area more than 3 times in the space of time when the murders took place. This should be less than 10 people. Question them all, you can probably eliminate 8 of them for various reasons and then you have your man.

[Woodywizz]

Originally Posted by signs

good post Fitz...

That's what a Law Degree - specialising in criminology and criminal psychology does for you, along with a Postgrad Diploma in Criminal Responsibility (ie the criminal mind). Why I'm a Private Bank Manager.....I'll never know, though I do smoke and drink as much as Fitz