P W Botha dead.

[Duncan G]

[RMCF]

Rather a sad post to someone's death.

I realise that he hasn't a good past history, but what did he do on you that makes you so happy he's dead?
He is still someones husband, father, brother, grandfather and his death will be painful to some. I hope when you lose someone similar you look back and consider your celebration at PW Botha's death when someone was in a similar situation to yourself.

[partyweb]

I gotta admit I didn't know who he was and did a quick google:

"Hard-line South African prime minister and later state president during the apartheid era"


Ok, so I guess if someone has suffered to an extreme under his reign as pm/president they probably would celebrate his passing. (Not my view, just trying to see the other side of the fence)

Maybe Duncan G can tell us how him/his family have been affected so much as to cause him to be joyous and make a post.

[LFC_SL]

RMCF, I didn't know who he was, hit google, and every link says 'apartheid'

Quick post edit?

Partyweb, I don't think you necessarily need to have suffered to make such a post? I presume this thread is gonna get deleted

[Mr.D]

Eff him , hope he burns in hell.

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

RMCF, I didn't know who he was, hit google, and every link says 'apartheid'

Quick post edit?

Partyweb, I don't think you necessarily need to have suffered to make such a post? I presume this thread is gonna get deleted

I would agree with partyweb, what did he do on you to make you so happy he is dead?

I could understand black South Africans celebrating his death, but not someone who lives thousands of miles away who has never been affected by him in any way.

[Mr.D]

Originally Posted by RMCF

I could understand black South Africans celebrating his death, but not someone who lives thousands of miles away who has never been affected by him in any way.

Empathy ? Humanity maybe?

[RMCF]

But you have to remember he was conditioned to be a racist.

When he was brought up as a young white South African in those old days, it was drilled into him that he was superior to blacks. It wasn't his fault - it happens to young people in a lot of places in the world.

I realise that some will say when he took power he could have made changes, but by that stage humans in-built prejudices are too in-grained.

I even see it today. They are lots of people in the UK who are racist - you tend to find old people are the most intolerant. I see it here in Ireland. I see old people who struggled through very hard times and are now the most bigoted people around.

I mean Ian Paisley is a hate figure in my community here in Ireland. I loathe his ideals, his politics, his bigotry - but I won't celebrate when he dies.

[Pat_C]

Originally Posted by RMCF

I would agree with partyweb, what did he do on you to make you so happy he is dead?

I could understand black South Africans celebrating his death, but not someone who lives thousands of miles away who has never been affected by him in any way.

If you have any sense of compassion about the effect that some evil people have on other human beings it makes little difference whether you were directly affected or not.

I recall an old sketch by Spike Milligan where he announced as a newsreader: "Idi Amin has been shot dead. Doctors say his condition is satisfactory"

[LFC_SL]

I can see both sides. I suppose everyone has their own way to deal with events. I will say imo it doesn't really matter we weren't directly affected

[Decadence]

Originally Posted by RMCF

I mean Ian Paisley is a hate figure in my community here in Ireland. I loathe his ideals, his politics, his bigotry - but I won't celebrate when he dies.

I won't celebrate but it'll sure make my day...as did the news of this man's passing...

[Pat_C]

Originally Posted by RMCF

But you have to remember he was conditioned to be a racist.

Whilst that may be true it isn't a good excuse. Hitler was conditioned to hate Jews, and paedophiles are often conditioned to do what they do. If you extend your logic nobody would be responsible or accountable for anything because they could always blame external influences.

[krish]

The new post-Apartheid state of South Africa is actually being very gracious about PWB, especially since he fought reform and change, and was basically kicked out and replaced by F W de Klerk, who moved swiftly to dismantle the racist constitution (and won the Nobel Peace Prize together with Mandela).

He's apparantly going to get a state funeral, and Nelson Mandela has also been quite kind about him (... then again he did say Margaret Thatcher was someone he could do business with, and later posed with the Spice Girls and Naomi Campbell )

I do remember PWB clearly from the eighties as one of several leaders of evil regimes around the world, and so I don't think he quite deserves various tributes and the dignity of a state funeral (especially since that was effectively a different state and constitution, with a different flag).

[Duncan G]

Originally Posted by partyweb

I gotta admit I didn't know who he was and did a quick google:

"Hard-line South African prime minister and later state president during the apartheid era"


Ok, so I guess if someone has suffered to an extreme under his reign as pm/president they probably would celebrate his passing. (Not my view, just trying to see the other side of the fence)

Maybe Duncan G can tell us how him/his family have been affected so much as to cause him to be joyous and make a post.

A dead racist is a good racist.

[Mr.D]

Originally Posted by krish

The new post-Apartheid state of South Africa is actually being very gracious about PWB,

South Africa generally deals with its history with more equanimity than a lot of other African countries that have gone through regime change.

The security services , the military are the same organisations that supported the appartheid government(s) .

However you have two options during a regime change .

You can destroy and pillory the organisations and individuals that supported the machinations of the opposed government which effectively involves tearing down valuable infrastructure and making about a third of your citizens enemies of the state.

Or you can draw a line in the sand , restructure those organisations most at fault over time with the cooperation of the individuals responsible for maintaining them ( who are just happy about not disappearing in the middle of the night) and try and build a more cohesive society rather than spend years and more blood on wasteful vengeance.