[Monster]

Hello

I recently got caught by a mobile detector van doing 65 on the motorway (me not the van) where it had reduced to 50.

I received the Notice of Intention to Prosecute, filled it in and sent it back.

I have now received the Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty and there is a mistake.

I was clocked on 25 August. The Conditional offer states 25 May. (I was in Spain, or on the plane at the time!)

There is a phone number on the Conditional offer but it is constantly engaged.

I wondered, if because they have made a mistake on the ticket, there is a way for me to get out of it? Would rather not go to court though. I already have 3 points.

Any thoughts or is anyone in the know able to provide suggestions/advice???

Many thanks.

[neilmcl]

Did the original NIP they sent out have the correct date?

[Mac Man]

Speak to a solicitor or the CAb.

I'm no lawyer but... since you admitted to the original offence (assuming the date is correct) you'll have to pay up.

If the date on the NIP is wrong then...

Still speak to a solicitor

[Monster]

Originally Posted by neilmcl

Did the original NIP they sent out have the correct date?

Yes!

I thought they might just cancel this Conditional Offer and issue a new one but you never know!

[BandWidthJunkie]

My better half, or used to work in a Ticket Office, says: -

The original offence as now been admitted by completing the NIP. The only way to appeal a Conditional Offer is to go to court, there is no other written appeal process.

She thinks contacting a Solicitor will be a waste of time and money!

Basically you are bang to rights now having already admitted the original offence, which was dated correctly.

This advice is of course based on her knowledge of the process of the Notts. Police Force and from more than 5 years ago, but she feels it is valid.

Hope this helps.

[Monster]

Thanks for the info BandWidthJunkie.

I've just managed to get through to the 0845 phone number. After 15mins holding.

Stupidly didn't notice that the NIP also states May but it was issued on 4 Oct 06.

They are looking into it and will get back to me. Snotty cow on the phone refused to admit the mistake! Finally she conceded the issue date on the NIP form was 4 Oct 06 but the alleged offence date was 25/5.

I returned the form that came with the NIP. I can't see anywhere on the NIP whether return of the form is an admission of the offence. Looks to me like it is only identifying who would be the driver at the time. Which would have been me.

I think they may be on soft ground here....heres hoping

[Alan_W]

By replying to the NIP you have not admitted anything wrong.

If they subsequently accuse you of an offence in the UK and you can prove you were elswhere then plead not guilty and go to court over it. You will be found not guilty and will be awarded costs if you ask for them.

You do not have to point out their mistake to them. Just plead not guilty and send it back.

[Monster]

Well blow me! Not literaly of course...

They have just called back. There is an error on the photo evidence! The date states May!

The people nicked before and after me are dated August but mine is May!

They are writing to me to revoke the notice.

Firstly, I am annoyed at myself for not noticing this when I sent back the NIP form.

Secondly, it just goes to show what a farce the Camera Partnerships are. The could easily put the pictures on the internet so you could check the evidence before going to court. But no. They make it so risky to contest, it is not usually worthwhile.

This notice should not have been issued in the first place and I would not mind betting they revoke mine and don't check to see if this has happened to anyone else (also dim enough not to notice!! )

As it is more than 14 days since the alleged offence I don't believe they can issue a new notice.

Lesson is, check the details carefully before responding!

What a result!

[tedpon]

hope you get off but,if you dont ,,use it like i did when i was caught a month ago,i had to pay 80 euro+2 points on my licence,i made a pact with my self never to get caught again ,and never to pay good money to these f;;;;;s again,so in keeping at or below the limits i have saved three times 80euro in that month on fuel n wear n tear,so im not stressed any more,im helping the planet,i now laugh as i go past a cop with speedgun pointed at me,its one the best 80 euro ive ever spent as regards driving,,,try it n see,...tedpon.

[Monster]

tedpon

Very true and something I have been doing since I first got done 15 months ago.

However, I do 25k business miles a year and sometimes my awareness of speed can drop for a moment. eg doing 60 in 50 zone or 36 in 30. This does not make you dangerous but there may be some bugger pointing a camera at you!

I have seen some ridiculous sites for mobile vans in South Wales and one that was in a dangerous position in the South West trying to catch people passing lorries in a crawler lane at the brow of a hill, just before the extra lane ends. Pople are overtaking safely (but perhaps just over the 50mph limit) as you go over the hill, they see the camera van, break and get stuck as the lane runs out and others build up behind.... The safe thing to do would be to put the camera well before the brow of the hill to stop idiots flying past at the end of the crawler lane and cutting in, but that would not catch nearly as many people....

A farce, just like the curernt Green Taxes on the news today. Save that for another thread and another day.

I am still happy to have not been prosecuted this time! The law is an ass......not in this case

[lynx]

http://pepipoo.com/

[maxf]

Originally Posted by Monster

Stupidly didn't notice that the NIP also states May but it was issued on 4 Oct 06.

They have a 14 day window to issue a ticket - so that is invalid. It would still have been invalid if the offence was 4th August (assuming the car is registered in your address).

www.pepipoo.com is well worth checking out when the dreaded ticket lands on your doormat.

[Monster]

Originally Posted by maxf

They have a 14 day window to issue a ticket - so that is invalid. It would still have been invalid if the offence was 4th August (assuming the car is registered in your address).

www.pepipoo.com is well worth checking out when the dreaded ticket lands on your doormat.

Very interesting site that.

The issue was more to do with the admin error. The alleged offence took place on 25 August. The NIP was received within 14 BUT the date of offence was wrong. A typing error could have been deemed to have bee an honest mistake but not reason enough not to prosecute.

It seems in this instance she got the impression I was not going to submit willingly so decided to revoke it. She even asked me what the date should have been!!!! As you can impagine, i politely told her that if they were alleging the offense that was up to them to provide!

Interesting that a civilian has the power take evidence to prosecute, issue a Conditional offer and then revoke it all when they realise they have made a mistake!

The case in Feb (mentioned on pepipoo) should be interesting...

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by Monster

Secondly, it just goes to show what a farce the Camera Partnerships are. The could easily put the pictures on the internet so you could check the evidence before going to court. But no. They make it so risky to contest, it is not usually worthwhile.

Which is why you should always write back to the issuing body and request any photo evidence, which is your right, prior to signing and returning the NIP.

[Monster]

Originally Posted by neilmcl

Which is why you should always write back to the issuing body and request any photo evidence, which is your right, prior to signing and returning the NIP.

But are they obliged to provide it???

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by Monster

But are they obliged to provide it???

Yes.

[John7]

It doesn't matter - this whole thing is mostly a scam to generate money and has little to do with safety.

If EVERYBODY did not submit so willingly and requested all the alleged evidence, (to which they are legally entitled) these leeches would have to work for their money and the system would grind to a halt.

[Dave]

Sorry to bear bad news but if you are offered a fixed penalty the 14 days nip rule does not apply.

It took North Wales Police 6 months to let me know i'd been nicked on a scamera but i still had to pay.

[Monster]

Originally Posted by Daerve

Sorry to bear bad news but if you are offered a fixed penalty the 14 days nip rule does not apply.

It took North Wales Police 6 months to let me know i'd been nicked on a scamera but i still had to pay.

It might not have unreasonable to say you did not know who the driver was after six months. Obviously depends on your car use situation...

I don't think that its bad new for me. From what I was told on the phone, the date mark on the photo was wrong so they have no evidence. That doesn't mean to say that they could not substantiate the date in other ways but I think it is unlikely.

It is one of those laws and processes that should be very simple but by coinfusion, they increase the chance of acceptance of a fixed penalty and the cash keeps rolling in.

Interestingly, the Camera partnerships are none profit making but they can revcover their costs. I wonder how much their Directors get paid and how closely their overall benefits package is regulated, if at all....

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by Daerve

Sorry to bear bad news but if you are offered a fixed penalty the 14 days nip rule does not apply.

It took North Wales Police 6 months to let me know i'd been nicked on a scamera but i still had to pay.

That only applies if you've been offered a fixed penalty notice prior to recieving the NIP. If the first you hear of the offence is the receipt of the NIP and this is over 14 days then you can't be prosecuted.

[lmccauley]

Originally Posted by lynx

http://pepipoo.com/

Also http://www.5ive-o.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=12

Cheers,
Liam