[CheekyKid]

I ordered a satellite receiver which never came nor did they ever reply any of my emails. After almost 3 weeks i decided to buy it from a different store. To my suprise the receiver ordered in the first place arrived and I ended up with 2 receivers even though I had canceled that order with severals emails . I got a copy of the emails sent but I can't access my hard drive through the windows installed in that drive. It has to be done through my current installation so i need to know where does outlook saves it's messages? there must be a folder somewhere.

I immediately returned the receiver back to www.smssat.biz and after 5 days I got a letter which says: For faultless goods returned or cancelled, refunds surcharged by 20%.

The item costs £160 so 20% out of it is a lot especially for an item which first I had cancelled(fact provable) and second how stupid can they be to send an order out after 3weeks passed . Can they surcharge anything they like? what the consumers law says?

I need to find my emails so that i can have a case should this matter end up at a small claims court. Not its not about the money its about principle. I won't get victimized like that by these muppets

[BandWidthJunkie]

Try searching for *.pst I believe that's the extention for Outlook Personal Folders.

HTH

[Joe90sDad]

Don't claim to be an expert here but I don't think showing your emails from your outbox is going to prove much.
Check the retailer's Terms & Conditions about delivery times and also speak to your local trading standards.

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by Joe90sDad

Don't claim to be an expert here but I don't think showing your emails from your outbox is going to prove much.
Check the retailer's Terms & Conditions about delivery times and also speak to your local trading standards.

Outlook emails have a enough information in the background that can proves that the email was actually sent.

[CheekyKid]

I believe that providing you cancelled under the Distance Selling Regulations, they are not, emphatically NOT allowed to charge a restocking fee. It is illegal to do so

[neilmcl]

OK CheekyKid, what you should have done was to contact the retailer once you received the item and tell them that you wish to cancel and return it under the Distance Selling Regulations. There is a possibility that if you're still within the 7 days you may be able to invoke this even though you've already returned the item but tbh I'm not sure on that specfic point. However, if you're not covered by the legislation then the retailer will be entitled to charge you a restocking fee.

You may want to try contacting http://www.oft.gov.uk/default.htm or your local Trading Standards for further advice.

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by CheekyKid

I believe that providing you cancelled under the Distance Selling Regulations, they are not, emphatically NOT allowed to charge a restocking fee. It is illegal to do so

Sorry my posts was a bit late. Have you actually invoked the Distance Selling Regs, what form did that take?

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by sean5302

If the receiver arrived within the 30 days I think you'll struggle with the DS regs:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/Business/Legal...erformance.htm

No, the DS applies for 7 days AFTER you receive the item.

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by neilmcl

No, the DS applies for 7 days AFTER you receive the item.

I received the item 2 of octomber, I called them the same day to say that i want to send it back for a full refund and I send it back by recoerded delivery on the 4th of octomber. They are not entitled to surcharge me 20% nor does their website says anything about it.

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by CheekyKid

I received the item 2 of octomber, I called them the same day to say that i want to send it back for a full refund and I send it back by recoerded delivery on the 4th of octomber. They are not entitled to surcharge me 20% nor does their website says anything about it.

Did you or did you not state that you're cancelling the goods under the Distance Selling Regulations. If you haven't physically invoked the legislation then you are not covered by it.

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by neilmcl

Did you or did you not state that you're cancelling the goods under the Distance Selling Regulations. If you haven't physically invoked the legislation then you are not covered by it.

I havent mentioned that but who can prove what I have or havent said on the phone? Phone is an unreliable way of communicating. What matters is that am within the 7day cooling off period

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by CheekyKid

I havent mentioned that but who can prove what I have or havent said on the phone?

Which is why the DSR clearly state that you must cancel in writing, unless the retailer accepts another means. I'm sorry but I think you may have problems here. Personally I wouldn't have even tried purchasing from a site that doesn't even provide any form of Terms and Conditions on their site. You may get some recourse on that score, as I said contact OFT or Trading Standards, but I doubt it.

[MPK]

Writing includes email and fax. And the retailer cannot ask you for proof of postage. Also, you don't need to mention the DSR in your notice, as you are acting within your rights of the DSR. Check them out the pdf here. http://www.oft.gov.uk/Business/Legal/DSR/default.htm (that's from the sellers perspective, but it's the same)

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by sean5302

I'm afraid you're in the wrong, unless "time was of the essence" in your contract.

Proof of posting, electronically or otherwise, is not proof of receipt.

If you entered into a contract and defaulted, the other contractor is entitled to charge you damages, I'm afraid.

Sean has made a crucial point here...I have learned a very expensive (lost £3k) lesson last year where I took the supplier to the county court. The judge explained the "time was of the essence" bit in UK law to me. I was waiting for 9 months and still hadn't received anything, but as time was not of the essence according to the contract the supplier was within his right to let me wait another 100 years whilst keeping my deposit.....I don't think it is fair in UK law, but that is the way it is....

It sounds like you cancelled before they supplied, so they are in their right to charge a restocking fee....If you cancelled after they supplied and communicated on grounds of the distant selling act you have have been within your legal right....

I know it is silly, but those are the rules....

Unfortunately there is the common sense element to these situations and it seems your supplier nor mine were bothered about their reputation or customer service.....

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by dejongj

Sean has made a crucial point here...I have learned a very expensive (lost £3k) lesson last year where I took the supplier to the county court. The judge explained the "time was of the essence" bit in UK law to me. I was waiting for 9 months and still hadn't received anything, but as time was not of the essence according to the contract the supplier was within his right to let me wait another 100 years whilst keeping my deposit.....I don't think it is fair in UK law, but that is the way it is....

It sounds like you cancelled before they supplied, so they are in their right to charge a restocking fee....If you cancelled after they supplied and communicated on grounds of the distant selling act you have have been within your legal right....

I know it is silly, but those are the rules....

Unfortunately there is the common sense element to these situations and it seems your supplier nor mine were bothered about their reputation or customer service.....

I cancelled before they supplied but as they said on the phone they never got my emails. I placed my order on susat.co.uk and I got my receiver from smssat.biz a website with different landbased address on their site. I sent the cancellation emails to susat.co.uk. Obviously these companies are related. Also their telephone phones on both sites don't seem to be of any good as nobody picks up the phone. This is unacceptable . I have no money and no receiver since I sent it back for a refund.

Would it not be wise to contact my bank and report the charge as unauthorized? because it is as far as am concerned

[Westindieman]

Originally Posted by sean5302

I'm afraid you're in the wrong, unless "time was of the essence" in your contract.

Proof of posting, electronically or otherwise, is not proof of receipt.

If you entered into a contract and defaulted, the other contractor is entitled to charge you damages, I'm afraid.

Your wrong. The distance selling regulations apply. If you havent opened the item, or even if you have opened but not unpacked the item or used it, contact them and tell them you are rejecting it under the distance selling regulations. They may still charge you the post and packing (most will refund you). I ordered and tried about 8 DVD recorders till I settled on the one I wanted and returned them all and I dont remember not having the P&P refunded on any.
By the way, outlook express. Go into outlook, options, maintenance and it gives you the option to change your store etc. You can find out where the default store is like that, but I dont think you need to go down there.
By the way again, if you paid by credit card, contact your card company and explain the situation to them and they may reclaim the funds. I have had my card company reclaim for an item I had in dispute with an internet seller.

[mrtbag]

Originally Posted by CheekyKid

Would it not be wise to contact my bank and report the charge as unauthorized? because it is as far as am concerned

You have to speak to Trading Standards. The issue here is that without and T&C applying to the order, you'll just get bogged down in a 'your word against theirs' situation.

As i understand it, you paid, and they are going to refund you (minus 20%), so there is no way your bank can 'make them' pay the full amount back.

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by Bruce Willy

Your wrong. The distance selling regulations apply. If you havent opened the item, or even if you have opened but not unpacked the item or used it, contact them and tell them you are rejecting it under the distance selling regulations. They may still charge you the post and packing (most will refund you). I ordered and tried about 8 DVD recorders till I settled on the one I wanted and returned them all and I dont remember not having the P&P refunded on any.
By the way, outlook express. Go into outlook, options, maintenance and it gives you the option to change your store etc. You can find out where the default store is like that, but I dont think you need to go down there.

I found the emails i had sent them. I didn't open the item. Right now i cant get hold of them

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by mrtbag

As i understand it, you paid, and they are going to refund you (minus 20%), so there is no way your bank can 'make them' pay the full amount back.

It's been a week since I sent the receiver back and I have yet to see a full/partial refund.

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by Confucius

Telephone calls, or letters sent by special delivery, are far better ways to communicate, wherevever possible, than e-mails.

edit: not terrible useful now, I'll admit, but worth bearing in mind, none the less.

That's right but english being my 2nd language am struggling to speak on the phone let alone write a really nice letter.

[mrtbag]

Originally Posted by CheekyKid

It's been a week since I sent the receiver back and I have yet to see a full/partial refund.

I understand that. The point was, your bank are not going to be able to make them pay a certain amount. You asked if it was worth contacting your bank, the answer is no.

[Westindieman]

Dow did you pay, have you seen my addition about the credit card?

[dejongj]

I truly hope you are able to get your money back, or actually out of the restocking charge....

Unfortunately having all the evidence is not necessarily enough, I submitted 139 pages of e-mail conversations, and the defence nothing....In the end it still came down to the time is not of the essence element....

The issue as I understand is getting 25% of £160 back....As they are unwilling, and trading standards don't really have any powers either, your other option would be moneyclaim.gov.uk (open a county court claim), however the costs for that would immediately exceed the money they owe you....So no matter how unfair it is or seem, I think the best is to shout very loud and see that nobody cares and move on......

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by Confucius

Telephone calls, or letters sent by special delivery, are far better ways to communicate, wherevever possible, than e-mails.

edit: not terrible useful now, I'll admit, but worth bearing in mind, none the less.

However, emails are still valid forms of communication under the DSR.

Just to clear up a few other misconceptions here:

Firstly it doesn't matter whether the item was opened or not or whether it was used or not, he is still entitled to cancel under the DSR. The right to cancel is UNCONDITIONAL.

The buyer is able to cancel at anytime before receiving the goods and for 7 days after and should expect a complete and full refund.

Unless stated in the retailers T&Cs, there are none on the website but I'd hope he recieved some via email, the consumer is not required to pay for sending them back either.

If no time limit for delivery has been agreed then the retailer must deliver within a maximum of 30 days, if this isn't met and no alternative delivery time has been agreed then the buyer is entitled to a full refund.

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by neilmcl

The buyer is able to cancel at anytime before receiving the goods and for 7 days after and should expect a complete and full refund.

I got the item delivered to me on the 2th of octomber and I sent it back on the 4th. Fact! Am entitled for a full refund , there website has no T&S.

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by CheekyKid

I got the item delivered to me on the 2th of octomber and I sent it back on the 4th. Fact! Am entitled for a full refund , there website has no T&S.

Sounds like you are entitled, but unfortunately that doesn't mean you get your money....That's the stupid civilised society we live in....

[Westindieman]

Originally Posted by neilmcl

However, emails are still valid forms of communication under the DSR.

Just to clear up a few other misconceptions here:

Firstly it doesn't matter whether the item was opened or not or whether it was used or not, he is still entitled to cancel under the DSR.

The buyer is able to cancel at anytime before receiving the goods and for 7 days after and should expect a complete and full refund.

Unless stated in the retailers T&Cs, there are none on the website but I'd hope he recieved some via email, the consumer is not required to pay for sending them back either.

If no time limit for delivery has been agreed then the retailer must deliver within a maximum of 30 days, if this isn't met and no alternative delivery time has been agreed then the buyer is entitled to a full refund.

When I mentioned whether it was opened or not I wasnt saying that should make a difference. I was implying I am surprised at the stance the seller is taking over a restocking fee when the item can be sold in the same state as it was shipped originally. I am fully with you on this, there is no-way I would be accepting anything less than a full refund, I am surprised at the seller but some do try it on. DO NOT ACCEPT this. I would write to the seller if you cannot contact them by phone and send them a link to or qoute the distance selling regulations. If you are still not happy, contact trading standards as they are not powerless as implied. They visited a store last year that displayed an incorrect price and refused to sell it at the price. Of course it was a mistake but trading standards being involved had the result of the store refunding me the difference though they didnt have to.
About the postage charges, I cannot see anything in any regulations were they are responsible for the P & P unless there is a fault, so I wouldnt argue if they insist on that.

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by CheekyKid

I got the item delivered to me on the 2th of octomber and I sent it back on the 4th. Fact! Am entitled for a full refund , there website has no T&S.

Their website doesn't have to have any T&Cs as long as they provide you with the necessary information in another durable form, ie, did any emails from them or your invoice contain the T&Cs. As I've said earlier, sending the item back is not enough, you are required to give notice of cancellation in writing.

[CheekyKid]

Originally Posted by dejongj

The issue as I understand is getting 25% of £160 back....As they are unwilling, and trading standards don't really have any powers either, your other option would be moneyclaim.gov.uk (open a county court claim), however the costs for that would immediately exceed the money they owe you....So no matter how unfair it is or seem, I think the best is to shout very loud and see that nobody cares and move on......

but if I win don't i get my solicitors fees back from the loser plus compensation?

[CheekyKid]

This is strange behaviour,

Just called them again just now and the guy told me that he will refund me tonight all the costs of my order plus the amount i spend to send the item back to them. In contrast to that I got a letter from them as part of the invoice saying that am going to have to pay a 20% surcharge

Well i dont care anymore....I just want to see my money hit my account and second why did they expect me to call them in order to credit the refund?

I won't rest till I see my money