[sean5302]

1

[Steven]

Listening now

Dunno whether he's right Re Middle east, but he's right on the button re this reporter who is also getting on my nerves. You'd think Sky could afford better

[krish]

I watched this yesterday... think there was a link on the other thread on hand luggage / terrorism

Don't like the man personally over his self-promotion and arse-licking of Sadaam, but love it when he takes down the neocons and right-wing media a peg or two
- remember him in Capitol Hill giving this US Senate committe a good rogering?...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdFFCnYtbk

[Garrett]

Its a rare day when you get one over George the words; throw, minnow and shark, spring to mind.

[shahedz]

Originally Posted by sean5302

I'd heard that George Galloway could be passionate.

Goodness me. Sky's Anna Botting now knows it, too!

I don't know whether he's right or wrong, but I found him very convincing:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/vi...060806,00.html

'What a silly question - what a silly person you are......'

brilliant-brilliant!!

[Jenn]

Whether people like him or not it seems she couldn't rubbish his arguments/opinions (and she would have like 3 people talking in her earpiece if they could help her).

[GBDG1]

George Galloway is an egomaniac, but it's a good job he is. Would you stand up before the US senate and say that?

[MikeTV]

I don't know about this one. On the one hand, I'm thinking well done Sky for providing a lengthy interview with George - their accuser. Secondly George can be as inflammatory and rhetorical as he wants to be, the sky reporter cannot. Thirdly, George deliberately spent the whole interview diverting questions using sleight of hand (eg. Lebanon is not Palestine anyway) to promote his preferred agenda, and distort perceptions. And I think these are true observations about the interview, irrespective of whether you support the Palestine, Lebanese, Iraqi, Israeli or US causes. I just think George might be dangerous, if he wasn't such a universally recognized prat.

[wavefront]

Originally Posted by MikeTV

I don't know about this one. On the one hand, I'm thinking well done Sky for providing a lengthy interview with George - their accuser. Secondly George can be as inflammatory and rhetorical as he wants to be, the sky reporter cannot. Thirdly, George deliberately spent the whole interview diverting questions using sleight of hand (eg. Lebanon is not Palestine anyway) to promote his preferred agenda, and distort perceptions. And I think these are true observations about the interview, irrespective of whether you support the Palestine, Lebanese, Iraqi, Israeli or US causes. I just think George might be dangerous, if he wasn't such a universally recognized prat.

I think the sky reporter was asking the usual loaded questions (like how dare people supply israels opponent with weapons!) and George was expressing his incredulity at the questions and their seperation from reality.

I think it said it all that the sky reporter was reporting from israel and had footage of dead israeli soldiers running throughout the whole peice.

Still, credit to sky that they had the balls to feature him.

[RMCF]

Have to agree with a lot of what he says.

I think its great that someone actually can argue against the biased reporting that tends to fill our screens these days, especially since 9/11.

Nothing wrong with seeing a news reporter getting lambasted - most of them are getting so hard to watch these days.

As I have always said, terrorism is terrorism no matter who carries it out.

[Reign-Mack]

Originally Posted by krish72

I watched this yesterday... think there was a link on the other thread on hand luggage / terrorism

Don't like the man personally over his self-promotion and arse-licking of Sadaam, but love it when he takes down the neocons and right-wing media a peg or two
- remember him in Capitol Hill giving this US Senate committe a good rogering?...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdFFCnYtbk

OWNED

[Singh400]

The world could do with more George Galloway's. I mean the way he stood up to that US Supreme Court was AWEOMSE

Imagine George as PM - "**** OFF BUSH, I AIN'T YOU BITCH NO MORE"

As usual George is making alot of sense. Hezbollah is alot more popular now, than it ever was. And who the hell do America think they are to give Irasel weapons?! And yet they moan with Iran helps Lebonoan.

Excuse my spelling

[pjclark1]

Galloway has my vote for PM

Originally Posted by SOK

terrorism is terrorism no matter who carries it out.

I don't think defending your country against foreign invaders can be considered terrorism.

[mij]

What a shame that more of our elected moneygrabbing career building liars do not have the courage to speak more honestly just as he did in that interveiw.

[MikeTV]

Originally Posted by pjclark1

I don't think defending your country against foreign invaders can be considered terrorism.

I don't think defending your country against terrorism can be considered terrorism, either.

[drskhaled]

You either love him or loathe him to be honest. I thought he'd gone too far when he called her a silly woman, even if she was, name calling detracts from the point he's trying to make. He is a formidable debater there's no doubt there and she got ripped apart, i doubt they'll be calling him back. One thing i noted in the interview was how she was more shocked when he mentioned Murdoch than anything else.....First rule of working for Rupert is thou shalt not speak ill of the boss.

[Reign-Mack]

yeah I think he should have kept his cool during that interview would have come accross a lot better.

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by drskhaled

i doubt they'll be calling him back

Are you kidding? You don't think Sky News knew exactly what they were getting when they invited George on. It maybe news but its still ratings driven and this sort of thing will be more than calculated on Sky's part.

[Reign-Mack]

The Sun has discovered a link http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006370177,00.html

[braiden]

Originally Posted by MikeTV

I don't think defending your country against terrorism can be considered terrorism, either.

It can when the county (israel) is a terrorist state Who are sponserred by the USA

[MikeTV]

Originally Posted by braiden

It can when the county (israel) is a terrorist state Who are sponserred by the USA

So you regard Israel as a terrorist state, and therefore terrorism is justified against it? Same for the USA. Well, let's just start WW3 and be done with it.

Both Lebanon and Israel are internationally recognized democratic nations, which means they are responsible for any terrorism that is committed on their territory, against a neighbour. If they refuse to take action against it, they shouldn't be surprised at being attacked. And providing finance, or weapons, to any nation, within the parameters of international law, is not an act of terrorism.

The problem with the middle east is that there are many rights and wrongs on all sides, and that any position can appear to be justifiable, if you choose the appropriate historical facts, or reference point. Just as George did. I don't know where that realisation gets us, but fanning the flames of extremism doesn't help the situation.

And (slightly off topic) I love all these media conspiracy theories. Pretty much every news outlet in the entire world reported that a bomb plot was foiled by the authorities, and yet some people still believe this is just a conspiracy by western governments, and that actually there is no terrorist threat at all, it is all anti-muslim propaganda, designed to scare the nation, and the media is entirely under it's control. I hope this is just the lunatic fringe, but when I read some posts on the forum, and hear George speak, I start to wonder.

[krish]

Originally Posted by Reign-Mack

The Sun has discovered a link http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006370177,00.html

read that yesterday... typical Sun **** stirring
- is highly likely as Bethnal Green MP and leader of the Respect Party that such individuals regardless of their violent intentions would have attended his rallys or constituency surgeries to discuss or debate "community relations" and the various crises he campaigns about

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by MikeTV

And (slightly off topic) I love all these media conspiracy theories. Pretty much every news outlet in the entire world reported that a bomb plot was foiled by the authorities, and yet some people still believe this is just a conspiracy by western governments, and that actually there is no terrorist threat at all, it is all anti-muslim propaganda, designed to scare the nation, and the media is entirely under it's control. I hope this is just the lunatic fringe, but when I read some posts on the forum, and hear George speak, I start to wonder.

I would not put it past the government in conjunction with the media to be inventing or else making all this terrorist plot sound a whole lot worse than it is.

Its all about creating a 'culture of fear' among the public so that they can justify what they do abroad. Its been happening for years.

[braiden]

Originally Posted by MikeTV

So you regard Israel as a terrorist state, and therefore terrorism is justified against it? Same for the USA. Well, let's just start WW3 and be done with it.

Both Lebanon and Israel are internationally recognized democratic nations, which means they are responsible for any terrorism that is committed on their territory, against a neighbour. If they refuse to take action against it, they shouldn't be surprised at being attacked. And providing finance, or weapons, to any nation, within the parameters of international law, is not an act of terrorism.

The problem with the middle east is that there are many rights and wrongs on all sides, and that any position can appear to be justifiable, if you choose the appropriate historical facts, or reference point. Just as George did. I don't know where that realisation gets us, but fanning the flames of extremism doesn't help the situation.

And (slightly off topic) I love all these media conspiracy theories. Pretty much every news outlet in the entire world reported that a bomb plot was foiled by the authorities, and yet some people still believe this is just a conspiracy by western governments, and that actually there is no terrorist threat at all, it is all anti-muslim propaganda, designed to scare the nation, and the media is entirely under it's control. I hope this is just the lunatic fringe, but when I read some posts on the forum, and hear George speak, I start to wonder.

Funny isnt it how hezbollah get called the terrorist faction in this conflict when they are the ones who are trying to repel an invading force from their country. Yes I am saying that Israel is the one that is commiting terrorsit acts in this instance. It's double standards pure and simple, israel itself is in defiance of numerous un resolutions, and it is a fact that in the past 6yrs years alone it's launched 11,782 missiles over the Lebanese border. In comparison, Hizbullah has launched 100 missiles over the border. But obviously that isn't reported becuase they wants to be seen as the goods guys while spreading anti muslim propaganda and claim that they are at threat of being wiped out, , did you know that the only other country in the world with a larger fleet of F16 fighter jets than israel is the USA. It receives over 6 billion year in aid from the USA, 3 billion in direct aid, two thirds of which is military aid itended for the purchase of american made weapons, in addition it reveives 3 billion in indirect aid, at least half of which is used for military ventures such subsidising its domestic armourments industry, not included in those figures are free weapons given to israel by th usa such as fighter planes and attack helicopters. Total aid to Israel since 1949 over 100 billion. Making Israel the country the size of new jersey the fourth biggest military in the world. They use this military might to bully palestine and lebenon so good on the guerilla fighters if they can get some weapons from somewhere. By the way the european uninion when asked a couple of weeks ago refused to put hizbullah on it's list of terrorist organisations, go figure, again a breif headline then never seen again.

As for israel, if some individual is caught in the act of trying to carry out a suicide bombing in israel they don't just arrest them, them actually flatten that person house regardles of whether that person family is there or not. I'm sorry but that smacks of nazism to me.

It's also not reported that prior to 9/11 70% of suicide bombings where carried out by the tamil tigers who are hindu. so do I think that the reporting in this country is biased and cuasing anti muslim feeling yes I do!!

As for the conspiracy side of things perhaps you look into the instances of mossad presence in the last two attroceties.

[MikeTV]

Originally Posted by braiden

Funny isnt it how hezbollah get called the terrorist faction in this conflict when they are the ones who are trying to repel an invading force from their country.

Hezbollah are not the democratically elected lebanese government. Hence the definition terrorist.

Originally Posted by braiden

it is a fact that in the past 6yrs years alone it's launched 11,782 missiles over the Lebanese border.

Source please? Otherwise we are in danger of sensationalism - like George.

Originally Posted by braiden

In comparison, Hizbullah has launched 100 missiles over the border.

Not true. 300 missiles in the last week - BBC

Originally Posted by braiden

But obviously that isn't reported becuase they wants to be seen as the goods guys while spreading anti muslim propaganda and claim that they are at threat of being wiped out,

This isn't about defending Israeli foreign policy. This is about terrorism being unacceptable, under any circumstance, when two democratic nations are involved in a dispute. Otherwise we descend into anarchy.

Originally Posted by braiden

did you know that the only other country in the world with a larger fleet of F16 fighter jets than israel is the USA. It receives over 6 billion year in aid from the USA, 3 billion in direct aid, two thirds of which is military aid itended for the purchase of american made weapons, in addition it reveives 3 billion in indirect aid, at least half of which is used for military ventures such subsidising its domestic armourments industry, not included in those figures are free weapons given to israel by th usa such as fighter planes and attack helicopters. Total aid to Israel since 1949 over 100 billion. Making Israel the country the size of new jersey the fourth biggest military in the world...

Sorry, but I doubt many of your facts. I agree Israel has a huge military arsenal. It is in a highly unstable region of the world. But that in itself does not contravene any international laws.

Originally Posted by braiden

By the way the european uninion when asked a couple of weeks ago refused to put hizbullah on it's list of terrorist organisations, go figure, again a breif headline then never seen again.

I am not familiar with the ruling, but it does have elected political representatives. The actions performed in it's name, are terrorist acts, not the party itself.

Originally Posted by braiden

As for israel, if some individual is caught in the act of trying to carry out a suicide bombing in israel they don't just arrest them, them actually flatten that person house regardles of whether that person family is there or not. I'm sorry but that smacks of nazism to me..

There is no justification for terrorism, on either side. If your definition of Nazism is "Evil/Wrong", perhaps, but my definition is somewhat more specific.

Originally Posted by braiden

It's also not reported that prior to 9/11 70% of suicide bombings where carried out by the tamil tigers who are hindu. so do I think that the reporting in this country is biased and cuasing anti muslim feeling yes I do!!

What are you saying here? That the Tamil Tigers are terrorists??? What has Sri Lanka got to do with this whole discussion?

Originally Posted by braiden

As for the conspiracy side of things perhaps you look into the instances of mossad presence in the last two attroceties.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. But if you are saying that some Mossad activities could be considered acts of terrorism, I may be inclined to agree with you.

[braiden]

Originally Posted by MikeTV

Hezbollah are not the democratically elected lebanese government. Hence the definition terrorist.

Source please? Otherwise we are in danger of sensationalism - like George.

Not true. 300 missiles in the last week - BBC

This isn't about defending Israeli foreign policy. This is about terrorism being unacceptable, under any circumstance, when two democratic nations are involved in a dispute. Otherwise we descend into anarchy.

Sorry, but I doubt many of your facts. I agree Israel has a huge military arsenal. It is in a highly unstable region of the world. But that in itself does not contravene any international laws.

I am not familiar with the ruling, but it does have elected political representatives. The actions performed in it's name, are terrorist acts, not the party itself.

There is no justification for terrorism, on either side. If your definition of Nazism is "Evil/Wrong", perhaps, but my definition is somewhat more specific.

What are you saying here? That the Tamil Tigers are terrorists??? What has Sri Lanka got to do with this whole discussion?

I have no idea what you are talking about here. But if you are saying that some Mossad activities could be considered acts of terrorism, I may be inclined to agree with you.

From http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com

'Did you know' that Israel . . .


O'Reilly got a little more than he bargained for when he invited Noura Erekat, legal advocate for the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation, to discuss Israel's incursion into Lebanon, its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, and America's role in the conflict.

"I don't think that our viewers know that Israel actually occupied Lebanon for 18 years and that in the past 6yrs years alone it's launched 11,782 missiles over the Lebanese border. In comparison, Hizbullah has launched 100 missiles over the border. Did Americans know that? Did they know???"

Now, we know!!! Thanks, Noura!

I bet he wasn't expecting that. Oh well, too late. The cat's out of the bag.

The video is half way down the page if youre interested, this was before the current conflict by the way.

Watch "Peace, propaganda and the promised land" and "absent justice documenteries", To educate yourself on the various FACTS outlined above.

Tamil Tigers: goes to show that the media only potray what they want us to know and omit what they don't want us to know.

As for my comment nazism, I find it ironic that what was done to them for being jews(systematic extermination of a people becuase of their identity) they are now doing to another people for being arabs.

Here are Just a few excerpts from Alan Hart's new book Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews (World Focus Publishing, Kent, England, 2005) for a better understanding of how zionism is working in the middle east.

Vladimir Jabotinsky, a Russian Jew born in 1880, was the founding father of Israel’s army. He initially formed and led the underground military organisation – the Haganah in 1920 (its declared purpose was to defend Zionist settlements). Incidentally the British-in-Palestine outlawed Haganah and Jabotinsky was sentenced to 15 years with hard labour In due course the Haganah gave its allegiance to mainstream Zionism in the shape of Ben-Gurion’s in-Palestine Jewish Agency.

In The Iron Wall, Jabotinsky wrote with brutal frankness. This is considered to be the bible of revisionist Zionism and the main inspirational text for all Jewish nationalists who became Israelis. The quote below is from The Iron Wall in order that readers might understand Jabotinsky’s mindset and thus understand how Israel became the rogue state it is today.

“…Each people will struggle against colonisers until the last spark of hope that they can avoid the dangers of colonisation and conquest is extinguished. The Palestinians will struggle in this way until there is hardly a spark of hope.

It matters not what kind of words we use to explain our colonisation…it has been necessary to carry on colonisation against the will of the Palestinian Arabs and the same condition exists now…

All colonisation, even the most restricted, must continue in defiance of the will of the native population. Therefore, it can continue to develop only under the shield of force which comprises an Iron Wall which the local population can never break through. This is our Arab policy. To formulate it any other way would be hypocrisy…

If you wish to colonise a land in which people are already living, you must provide a garrison for that land, or find some rich man or benefactor (USA??) who will provide a garrison on your behalf. Or else? Or else give up your colonisation, for without an armed force, which will render physically impossible any attempt to destroy or prevent this colonisation, colonisation is impossible – not difficult, not dangerous but IMPOSSIBLE! Zionism is a colonising adventure and therefore it stands or it falls by the question of armed force. It is important to speak Hebrew but, unfortunately it is even more important to be able to shoot (reason why Israel has a policy of 2 yrs compulsory military draft??) – or else I am through with playing at colonisation.

To the hackneyed reproach that this point of view is unethical, I answer – absolutely untrue. This is our ethic. There is no other ethic. As long as there is the faintest spark of hope for the Arabs to impede us, they will not sell these hopes – not for any sweet words, nor for any tasty morsel, because this (Palestinians) is not a rabble but a people, a living people. And no people make such enormous concessions on such fateful questions, except when there is no hope left, until we have removed every opening visible in the Iron Wall.”

Vladimir Jabotinsky, The Iron Wall (O Zhelzroi Stene), Rassvet, 4 November 1923: and The Iron Law, Selected Writings of Vladimir Jabotinsky, published in South Africa, 1962. This quotation is cited by Alan Hart in Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews (World Focus Publishing, Kent, England, 2005) from an original citation by Schoenman in The Hidden History of Zionism (Veritas Press, 1985).


As far back as 1895, Theodore Herzl, the founding father of mainstream Zionism (he convened the first Congress of the World Zionist Organisation (WZO) at Basle in Switzerland in 1897), committed to his diary his own private thoughts on what would have to be done about the Arab natives of Palestine if Zionism was to achieve its objective of creating a Jewish State. He wrote:

“We shall have to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit counties while denying it any employment in our own country… Both the process of expropriation (of Arab land) and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”

The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl (New York, 1960), Vol I, p. 88, translated by Harry Zohn, edited by Raphael Patai and cited by Alan Hart in Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews (World Focus Publishing, Kent, England, 2005) Vol 1, p. 89.


Joseph Weitz, Head of the Jewish Agency’s Colonisation Department wrote a secret memorandum in 1940 headed A Solution to the (Jewish) Refugee Problem. It said:

“Between themselves it must be clear that there is no room for both peoples together in the country. We shall not achieve our goal if the Arabs are in this country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to neighbouring countries – all of them. Not one village, not one tribe, should be left”

Report in Davar (Israeli newspaper), 29 September 1967: and cited by Uri Davis and Norton Mezvinsky (editors) in Documents from Israel 1967 – 1973, p.12 and Alan Hart in Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews (World Focus Publishing, Kent, England, 2005), Vol 1, p. 89.


Secret memorandum submitted to Prime Minister Rabin, in 1967, by Israel Koenig, the Northern District Commissioner of the Ministry of the Interior dealt with the issue of Palestinian Arabs outnumbering Jews and proposed:

“…to redress the drastic situation by giving the Arabs no more than 20% of available jobs; by changing the selection system to reduce the number of Arab student in universities and encouraging the channelling of these students into technical professions, physical and natural sciences and thus leave them less time for dabbling in nationalism – and also make trips for students easier while making the return and employment more difficult, which is to encourage their emigration.”

Alfred M. Lilienthal in The Zionist Connection II: What Price Peace? Published 1983 and cited by Alan Hart in Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews (World Focus Publishing, Kent, England, 2005), Vol 1, p. 89

and,“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation and cutting of all social services to rid Galilee of its Arab population”

Cited by Schoenman in The Hidden History of Zionism (Veritas Press, 1985) p. 31-2 (based on the complete Al-Hamishmar original report).



Israeli Defence Force’s Chief of Staff, Raphael Eytan, said:

“We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimetre of Eretz Israel… Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours”

and also before Knesset’s Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee:


“When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do will be to scurry around like drugged roaches in a bottle.”

Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot (Israeli newspaper), 13 April 1983, and The New York Times, 14 April 1983, and cited by Alan Hart in Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews (World Focus Publishing, Kent, England, 2005), Vol 1, p. 90



Another good article by Uri Avnery on the CounterPunch site:
http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery02222003.html

Uri Avnery has closely followed the career of Sharon for four decades. Over the years, he has written three extensive biographical essays about him, two (1973, 1981) with his cooperation. Avnery is featured in the new book, The Other Israel: Voices of Refusal and Dissent.



Sound good to you??

Even if you doubt the facts, they still remain the facts.

[The Dude]

I would not put it past the government in conjunction with the media to be inventing or else making all this terrorist plot sound a whole lot worse than it is.

Its all about creating a 'culture of fear' among the public so that they can justify what they do abroad. Its been happening for years.

It's quite often the funniest thing I read in print, the fact that conspiracy theorists are almost universally devoid of any sense of irony....


Who should we be more scared of... the Muslims, or the Government?

[MikeTV]

Originally Posted by braiden

The video is half way down the page if youre interested, this was before the current conflict by the way.

So, it was stated by a representative of the "US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation"? Clearly it must be fact then?

Originally Posted by braiden

Tamil Tigers: goes to show that the media only potray what they want us to know and omit what they don't want us to know.

Hardly a convincing argument, given it's irrelevence to the Middle East crisis, and the fact that they are almost universally recognized as a terrorist organisation. Where's the cover-up here? Many news outlets have chronologies of the events.

Originally Posted by braiden

As for my comment nazism, I find it ironic that what was done to them for being jews(systematic extermination of a people becuase of their identity) they are now doing to another people for being arabs.

Hardly a comparison. Many Israeli citizens are Arabs, and are not being persecuted.

Originally Posted by braiden

Here are Just a few excerpts from ...
Even if you doubt the facts, they still remain the facts.

What facts? You haven't given any facts. This is not a discussion about whether Zionist ideals are correct or justified.

Your entire argument seems to be "Israeli's are bad people and so deserve what they get". I simply feel we (those of us fortunate to be outside of the region) have a duty to use moderation in our discussions, no matter how outraged we may feel by specific events.

[braiden]

Originally Posted by MikeTV

So, it was stated by a representative of the "US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation"? Clearly it must be fact then?

Hardly a convincing argument, given it's irrelevence to the Middle East crisis.

Hardly a comparison. Many Israeli citizens are Arabs, and are not being persecuted.

What facts? You haven't given any facts. This is not a discussion about whether Zionist ideals are correct or justified.

Your entire argument seems to be "Israeli's are bad people and so deserve what they get". I simply feel we (those of us fortunate to be outside of the region) have a duty to use moderation in our discussions, no matter how outraged we may feel by specific events.

That was stated by a LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE(an attorney at law) for the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation. I would think she would know the repercussions of going on live international television and slandering the state of israel.

The tamil tigers releveance is that since 9/11 reporting on suicide bombings started to be main stream media much more and attributed to anti muslim feeling as opposed to prior 9/11.

There are numerous double standards between jews and arabs within israel.

It comes down to whether Zionist ideals are correct or justified. Becuase Israel is a zionist state. Even ortodox jews have acknowledged this and call for Israel to stop calling itself a jewish state and to stop claiming it's acting on behalf of the world jewish community.



My argument is Israel get to do whatever they want while playing the bleeding heart card, when you can clearly see what their agenda is in the middle east right from the start, While hizbullah and palestinian hamas are labelled "terrorists" because they wont conform and accept oppression. Pure double standards.

I think unless you are willing to go and research this properly and see how zionism influences israel which then affects the middle east and indeed the wider world and youre willing to accept those facts then we have to agree to disagree.

[MikeTV]

I think we probably agree on more than you suggest. And that's probably true for the vast majority, whether discussing the current crisis, or past events. But it is all too easy to for the loud voices of extremists to drown out those in the middle ground, and this often encourages moderates to choose sides, and to become more extreme, which is exactly what both sides want. There is undoubtedly a propaganda war.