If you can't beat them.......

[Nick_UK]

Special rooms where heroin users could legally inject drugs should be trialled in the UK, a panel of experts has said. The independent group said allowing users to inject in a safe and hygienic environment would improve their health and reduce the risk of fatal overdoses.

The panel, including health workers and senior police officers, highlighted the successful use of such rooms worldwide.

However, the Home Office has argued "drug consumption rooms" could increase localised drug dealing and crime.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5007032.stm

I expect it would give the drugs pushers somewhere nice and warm to congregate, instead of those nasty damp street corners. Did anyone see the report in the news last night, showing how cocaine sales are destroying the lives of ordinary people in Columbia ? The drugs money is fuelling a civil war, which people are fleeing to slums in the city to get away from.

[Fusewire]

The independent group said allowing users to inject in a safe and hygienic environment would improve their health and reduce the risk of fatal overdoses.

So would kicking the habit.. am I missing something here

[mundstick]

I would assume that their thinking is that if the users, and for that matter, the drug dealers are in a known location it will make the problem more managable.

As a Sunday League footballer, myself and the other players on my team are constantly finding used needles strewn across our local football pitches. These pitches are public grounds are are often used by children as well as adults.

Whether giving them a place to inject would be a solution to these type of problems i dont know but I would be in favour of trying if it means reducing the risk for the general public.

[Ethics Gradient]

the single biggest cause of ill health amongst drug users .... is the fact that it is illegal and is therefore done in a surreptitious manner with impure products.

You can't suddenly try and make a correlation between crime in columbia and a sugguestion to try and at least get addicts into safer environments than the streets.... a safer environment not just for them but for the non drug using public as well, as anything to try and reduce the number of discarded needles for children to pick up has to be a bonus !

For me, the attitude that something is illegal and therefore we should never do anything to assist those that partake in it, is extremely naive and almost child like.
It simply does not address the complexties of life and the society we live in - nor provide a solution.
People are taking drugs regardless of the law ... and even if we turn the majority of the UK into a prison, drug taking will still take place - drug use in our prisons is rife and shows you exactly how hopless a policy of 'getting tougher' is.
If drug users are going to carry on whether you like it or not - it is far better to take the mature and pragmatic attitude that whilst I might not agree with it, I am going to make sure that I minimise the health, crime and social risks to the users and the general public as possible.
Or we could just do the old 'hear no evil, see no evil ..... ', personaly I prefer not to appear like a chimp with his hands over his ears


ps .... the don't grow herion in columbia
cocaine can be injected ... but it is more commonly snorted .. or smoked in crack form.
( I think you ment to mention Turkey and Afghanistan instead where most of the herion comes from ... and therefore where most of the drugs that would potentially be injected in these 'rooms' )

[Nick_UK]

I don't think these rooms would be used by addicts - I think these rooms are more aimed at "casual" users. What better way to turn a casual user into an addict, than to make it nice and comfortable for them to shoot up ?

It's really stupid that we fling tobacco addicts out into the cold for their fixes, whilst we provide cocaine users nice comfy places for theirs. To be honest, I have more compassion for the poor families in Columbia than I have for these rich idiots who can't see the harm they are doing, so let them overdose - one less junkie to worry about. Give help to those who can use it and will be grateful for it.

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by Ethics Gradient

....... For me, the attitude that something is illegal and therefore we should never do anything to assist those that partake in it, is extremely naive and almost child like.......

Oh, if I had my way, I'd put all these drugs on the NHS for free (or for a small charge to cover burial fees). Then if people want to kill themselves, then at least it won't fund crime and wars.

Originally Posted by Ethics Gradient

.... ps .... the don't grow herion in columbia
cocaine can be injected ... but it is more commonly snorted .. or smoked in crack form.
( I think you ment to mention Turkey and Afghanistan instead where most of the herion comes from ... and therefore where most of the drugs that would potentially be injected in these 'rooms' )

It really doesn't matter. Drugs fund crime and war, no matter where they're grown.

[Lawrenzini]

Originally Posted by Nick_UK

I don't think these rooms would be used by addicts - I think these rooms are more aimed at "casual" users. What better way to turn a casual user into an addict, than to make it nice and comfortable for them to shoot up ?

You're showing a great deal of niavity here, "casual" heroin users, there must be 2 or 3 of those around somewhere.

People smoke heroin up until the point where it becomes a serious problem, upon which they start injecting.

[Ethics Gradient]

Originally Posted by Nick_UK

I don't think these rooms would be used by addicts - I think these rooms are more aimed at "casual" users. What better way to turn a casual user into an addict, than to make it nice and comfortable for them to shoot up ?

It's really stupid that we fling tobacco addicts out into the cold for their fixes, whilst we provide cocaine users nice comfy places for theirs. To be honest, I have more compassion for the poor families in Columbia than I have for these rich idiots who can't see the harm they are doing, so let them overdose - one less junkie to worry about. Give help to those who can use it and will be grateful for it.

a casual user is NEVER going to go to a public place that is monitored to inject drugs .... only a junkie would have the lack of care of what society thinks ......
I can just imagine some suited city gent wanting to be seen going into one can't you.
These places will not be the Ritz, nor are they likely to be next door to Next in the high street.

.... I don't think you have thought this one through really have you.


Btw - rich people don't tend to OD ( there are notable exceptions ofc )
They tend to have access to higher quality drugs interms of know levels of purity.
It is people on the streets in the socially deprived areas that are far more likely to OD -- mainly because of inconsitant quality controls - ie the complete lack of them. 1 day they get 5% herion and brick dust ... the next day its 20% pure as the supplies change all the time ... and they OD.

.... if they don't OD, they get serious complications overtime from all the impurities that crimes don't give a jot about buliking their product out with.

[Ethics Gradient]

Originally Posted by Nick_UK

Oh, if I had my way, I'd put all these drugs on the NHS for free (or for a small charge to cover burial fees). Then if people want to kill themselves, then at least it won't fund crime and wars.



It really doesn't matter. Drugs fund crime and war, no matter where they're grown.

I think you'll find the British tax payer and the Americans funded the war where herion is grown .... in Afghanistan.

[Ed Selley]

Originally Posted by Nick_UK

Oh, if I had my way, I'd put all these drugs on the NHS for free (or for a small charge to cover burial fees). Then if people want to kill themselves, then at least it won't fund crime and wars.

Legalise the lot- legitimise supply and measure and then slap duty on the stuff. There is a big element of King Canute about most first world nations and their attitude to drugs.

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by Ethics Gradient

a casual user is NEVER going to go to a public place that is monitored to inject drugs .... only a junkie would have the lack of care of what society thinks ......
I can just imagine some suited city gent wanting to be seen going into one can't you.
These places will not be the Ritz, nor are they likely to be next door to Next in the high street.

.... I don't think you have thought this one through really have you.

I'm not sure you have either. You're trying to tell us that a junkie that can't even be bothered to find a public toilet when he wants to take a whizz is going to walk half a mile to find a room to shoot up in ?

And I haven't thought this through ?

[Lawrenzini]

Originally Posted by Nick_UK

I'm not sure you have either. You're trying to tell us that a junkie that can't even be bothered to find a public toilet when he wants to take a whizz is going to walk half a mile to find a room to shoot up in ?

And I haven't thought this through ?

For someone who is such a supposed expert on Junkie behaviour, you don't even seem to know the difference between heroin and cocaine.

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by Ethics Gradient

I think you'll find the British tax payer and the Americans funded the war where herion is grown .... in Afghanistan.

And your point is ? Are you saying that Bush and Blair went to Afghanistan to wipe out the drugs ?

They didn't make a very good job of it, did they ? It's still going on.

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

For someone who is such a supposed expert on Junkie behaviour, you don't even seem to know the difference between heroin and cocaine.

Who said I am an expert ? I didn't. I can do without that sort of "expertise", thanks. Whether you inject a drug, or shove it up your as an enema, the effects are the same, both from a health and a crime point of view.

Are you denying that most crime is drugs-related ? Or that drugs are not funding civil wars around the world ?

[colinwheeler]

I think people should think long and hard about legalising these drugs so that they can be controlled better. If people really want to "off" themselves with drugs, they will and there is nothing that can be done to stop them.....been there, seen it, bought the t-shirt. Ergo, let them have thier drugs and get the job over with. Those that want help, provide it.