[butleri]

Quick opinion needed by anyone who knows anything about employment law.

I started my current job 3 months ago and like most jobs I started on a probationary period - this is for 6 months. Now the company is being sold to a rival and it looks as though the site where I work will be shut at some point. Now if this is within the next 3 months I will still be on probationary so my question is am I counted as a perminant member of staff in a closure situation (and so would be eligable for redundancy payment) or can they just give me my 1 weeks notice and owe me nothing?

Thanks!

[Deep-6]

I'm no expert but I know a few people who have been hit by redundancies, and i worked for a company which got bought by another.... if you are still within your probationary period when your Co. gets sold, and they new Co. take on all the contracts as they are, the notice period as set out in the terms of your contract/probationary period should still stand.

As for redundancy pay, i think by law, companies have to pay you at least something like £250 for each year you have worked there.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will chime in soon.

Cheers..

Originally Posted by butleri

Quick opinion needed by anyone who knows anything about employment law.

I started my current job 3 months ago and like most jobs I started on a probationary period - this is for 6 months. Now the company is being sold to a rival and it looks as though the site where I work will be shut at some point. Now if this is within the next 3 months I will still be on probationary so my question is am I counted as a perminant member of staff in a closure situation (and so would be eligable for redundancy payment) or can they just give me my 1 weeks notice and owe me nothing?

Thanks!

[Nick_UK]

Unless your contract says different, you are not normally eligable for redundancy until you have been continuously employed for 2 years.

[Londondecca]

This might help http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/redundancy/payments-pl808.htm

[Knyght_byte]

most probationary periods mean you or they can quit with a weeks notice......so most likely you wont get anything, altho if lucky they will be good and try and help you get another position with their company..........but normally they wouldnt have to give you any redundancy pay other than paying you till the end of the week or month they give you notice in......(week or month depends on whether you are paid hourly or on a salary...usually)

but seek advice anyhow professionaly if the job is worth the effort.....

[M-C-P-M]

Sorry you are not entitled to anything unless you have been continuosly employed by them for 2 years or more

[mjn]

Check out the "TUPE" law

[unique]

DTI website

[FONT=Arial]Redundancy payments [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial]When is a redundancy payment due?[/FONT][FONT=Arial] [/FONT]
[FONT=arial]Your employer must give you a lump-sum payment if:

• you are made redundant;
• you have at least two years continuous service since the age of 18; and
• you meet the other conditions set out in this document.

You may also be entitled to other - non-statutory - payments if this has been agreed in your contract of employment.

if they are proposing to make a large number of staff redundant they will need to consult with staff, and unions will likely get involved. i get the impression this is a big company with more than 1 site. whilst statotory redundancy requires 2 years continous service, of which your probabtionary period would normally be included, possibly with union agreement they will allow redundancy payments greater than statotory payments, and perhaps even make payments to all staff. so it's worth asking your union rep about it. but i wouldnt count on getting anything due to the short length of service. its probably a good time to start looking for another job

if another company takes over/buys your company/site they will usually take over contracts as is so your rights and pay and continous service dates will remain the same

if you are on a probationary period, they could just end it i suppose, altho this really shouldnt be done just beacuse they no longer need you, but again they can just give you notice of redundancy of a week/month and you have to work the notice and just leave without any additional payments apart from getting untaken holidays paid
[/FONT]

[butleri]

Thanks all.

It is company policy to give 2 weeks wages for every year of service but all perminant members of staff will get at least 8 weeks wages regardless of length of service. Clearly as you have explained this is just company policy not law.

So I suppose my question is technically I am perminant staff albeit on probationary period NOT a temp. Could they for example get rid of me for no good reason just because I'm on probabtionary (like they could for a temp) or do they need reason to end my employment?

In other words to get rid of me would they have to make me redundant and therefore I would fall under the company redundancy policy or can they just end my contract?

I hope that makes sense!

[unique]

if you are on probation, that may not count as permanent. it depends on the wording on your contract. if you last the probabtion, then you would be considered permanent. under the circumstances, as they seem to be reasonable generous with policy, they may well just give you the 2 weeks, and if your lucky you might get the full 8 weeks

as long as you keep your nose clean, there should be no reason they don't keep you on. it sounds like a major change, which would take time to deal with. there are laws that say if you are going to make so many staff redundant at a site (ie. 50 by memory) that you have to have a 30 day consultation period with staff

i get the impression they haven't formally started redundancy consultation, which they would have to if they close the site

when is the company being officially sold?

they possibly want to play everything safe at the moment so as not to rock the boat too much, so i wouldn't worry about it too much. i would get your CV updated and prepare yourself to look for another job though, and not worry too much about gaining any redudancy money that your not entitled to from statutory law. anything you get would be a bonus, albeit not a very nice one

you never know, they may keep your plant running for an interrim changeover period. but you and your collegues would know that better

[Londondecca]

As you are still under a probationary period, if they wanted to end the contract they would still need to follow the statutory procedures unless it was redundancy and yes you are a permanent member of staff, based on what you have said

[M-C-P-M]

I think you may be being given false hopes, as someone who is only half way through a 6 month probation, you have NO rights at all, Well, they can't tie you up and put you in a trunk of a car and dump you outside the building! but if they wanted to they could just say BYE! and that would be it i'm afraid to say! (last in first out)

[Knyght_byte]

aye, its a probationary period, they can simply say they dont require your services anymore, ta ta......usually a probationary period is there for a firm to work out whether or not you will be suitable to work in their company (or in other words are you cost effective)......sometimes a firm takes on more than enough staff to cover some positions, then at the end of the period drop the worst performers, however even if all performed within equal ability they would still drop some and they dont have to give any reason......its only once you've signed a full contract of employment (ie not a probationary contract) that they cant just dismiss you willy nilly, they would have to give a reason, either that you have done something wrong (for which they must follow a grievence procedure anyhow) or tell you that you are being made redundant, in which case as mentioned above it depends on the size of the company and cirumstances as to what you will receive....

[swanny78]

You will be protected by TUPE laws and your current contract will stand, the only thing not really protected is your Pension and base location...other than that, PAY, HOLIDAYS, BONUSES will come with you.

[NWhiteley]

I thought that unless you had been under contract for 2 years, you have no rights what so ever,

but i do work for a crap company, that may feed me with total bolox

[unique]

Originally Posted by NWhiteley

I thought that unless you had been under contract for 2 years, you have no rights what so ever,

but i do work for a crap company, that may feed me with total bolox

everyone has rights since day 1 of starting. most rights are in the favor of the worker rather than the employer too

employers do have the right to say thier disciplinary procedures don't apply within the first year of contract however, so within the first year they don't need to go thru all the hoops to let you go, and you don't have the right to take your employer to a tribunal within the first year, unless they haven't fulfilled a basic contractual right (ie. haven't paid you the salarly they promised) or if they fire you for racial or sexual grounds. they can simply let you go in the first year and say you weren't suitable, and not have to pay redundancy pay, and not have much in the way of comebacks

whilst that is in place, unions may be able to take action to stop or prevent those things happenening if they aren't done fairly

[M-C-P-M]

Yes Unique, as you state in an earlier post about TUPE law but he would still have NO rights as an employee, his probationary period is not even up so when the new firm takes over he has the same rights as he did before, None, until he has been there longer than the said Probation period. This said however the TUPE law has been upgraded in April 06 so things might of changed but I doubt it. As long as they give a valid and legal reason they can sack him or just say he's not what they are looking for and he has ABSOLUTELY NO COME BACK!

[unique]

Originally Posted by the_caretaker

Yes Unique, as you state in an earlier post about TUPE law but he would still have NO rights as an employee, his probationary period is not even up so when the new firm takes over he has the same rights as he did before, None, until he has been there longer than the said Probation period. This said however the TUPE law has been upgraded in April 06 so things might of changed but I doubt it. As long as they give a valid and legal reason they can sack him or just say he's not what they are looking for and he has ABSOLUTELY NO COME BACK!

i think there's some misunderstanding going on. everyone has rights as an employee from day one, but i haven't mentioned what those rights are, and thus i presume you've interpreted something from what i've said to suggest something that you disagree with. i wasn't suggesting he had the right to redundancy payments or anything like that, and i think i said that earlier

at the end of the day, by statutory law, the employer can end the OPs employment fairly easily as you say as long as he has less than a years service, and he wouldn't be entitled to any redundancy or pay in luie of notice, and only be paid for what pay he was accured, and any untaken holiday entitlement

this is worst case scenario however, so hopefully the situation will be dealt with better, and you may get some redundancy pay, however the amounts aren't that much

i don't know what type of work you do, or if there is much call for your line of work in your area, but if there are a lot of staff with the same skills as yourself, you might be better off jumping ship now, when the competition for getting another job may be better (however i'm sure other people will be thinking the same thing), whereas if you wait until say 50-100 people in the area lose jobs at the same time, the competition for trying to get another job will be higher. as your not in line for a bumper payout, its worth the risk of 2-8 weeks pay that you might not even get, to switch jobs now

[butleri]

Thanks guys - I think at the end of the day it would be down to the companys discresion whether or not I get anything.

Problem is I don't really want to point this out to them by asking if I would get anything - they might suddenly realise that they dont need to pay me (although I'm sure they would go through everyones contracts anyway and notice).

[unique]

Originally Posted by butleri

Thanks guys - I think at the end of the day it would be down to the companys discresion whether or not I get anything.

Problem is I don't really want to point this out to them by asking if I would get anything - they might suddenly realise that they dont need to pay me (although I'm sure they would go through everyones contracts anyway and notice).

they might not have to go thru everyones contracts as many companies use the same standard terms and conditions of employment, and they will have your start and end date, salarly etc on the payroll system and perhaps an HR system, so it's dead easy to run off a report and sort and select people based on various criteria. so like you say, they are probably aware of this anyway. best person to speak to would be a union rep if you have one as they will act in your interests, but i think your best option would be to try and find another job if you can. whilst you've only been there so long you have a reasonable excuse why you are leaving so early. as long as this doesnt make your cv look like you can't hold a job down very long it shouldn't matter too much

[Londondecca]

I would not recommend searching for alternative work just yet or until you know more information. Whilst it is generally true that an employee with less than 12 months service has fewer rights, they still have some. Probationary interviews are still covered by the statutory dismissal-grievance procedures and if the dismissal is related to the TUPE it is automatically unfair.

I have been involved in a lot of TUPE work over the years and it is not automatic that staff on probation lose their jobs. Sometimes they are seen as the new blood and more adaptable to changes.

Jumping ship without a very good reason can be hard to sell to another employer. If someone sent me their CV and resigned their last job without a good reason I would not be very impressed.