As thread title.

I'm guessing within 5 years for the Government to say it's an outright ban on consuming any alcohol if you intend to drive.

Your thoughts?

[JohnG]

We've had an argument like this before, I still say you can't bring in a zero alcohol law as then you could never drive the next morning after a couple of drinks - even if you were well below the current limit.
If you had 1 pint at lunch time you then couldn't drive home at 5-30 !

I was banned for a year for drink driving five years ago I am ashamed to say. I have been literally paying for it ever since (insurance). I am now totally against it of course and am just thankful that I did no person or thing any damage. However what about the morning after if there is a zero mg/l blood ban? Can you imagine the number of work sick days (or half days) that will be taken. The countries that have zero policy also tend to be places where access to alcohol is also government controlled (e.g. Sweden)

[overkill]

Like everything, it would have to be applied sensibly. If you are followed from a pub after drinking alcohol - ban. If you are driving 24 hours later with a low level, let common sense prevail. Sadly, as we know so well, the law is low on common sense, high on 'sledgehammer'.

[eddidaz]

It's a good idea. I wouldn't touch a drop if I was driving (if I had a car ) but as someone mentioned, the morning after thing would screw everything up. So a little bit should be ok.

[madcyril]

I'm not sure but does certain medicines not show as low amounts of alchohol in blood tests which is why it will never be zero.

[Steven]

Would that be a Labour or Conservative government?

I might as well be the first to say it

[Dom996]

Tricky one. I never have even one and drive, but I'm sure sometimes you could measure some booze in my system the morning after.

Drink too much anyway.

[Phil Hinton]

[personal opinion]
I actually think, for fairness, the system is about right now. However it doesn't take much to get you over so general rule would be don't have anything if you intend toi use the car, it's not hard.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Would that be a Labour or Conservative government?

I might as well be the first to say it

Since both have shown themselves to be interventionist/centralist over the last thirty years, either.

The Tories might think twice as one of the many lobbies that has them by the ***** is the car lobby. Not that I'm saying for an instant that 'Tonys Tories' aren't in hock to a few dodgy lobby groups......

[Knyght_byte]

i think they could lower the current level without affecting people who drink one night then go to work the next day....

because if you are still over the level the next morning, then it means you are quite possibly still under the influence as well, which means you shouldnt be driving.....

i know since they had a kid, my sisters fiance wont drive after a big night out till around the evening the following day.......

so the rule would be simple, dont get slaughtered if you know you need your car the following day early on........

i drink, i dont drive, if i did drive, i wouldnt drink if i knew i needed to drive.....same as i never drunk when i had an early start at work the next day........most of the jobs i did that involved me getting up early required me to use some kind of machinery, no way i wanted to lose my own fingers or somebody elses....

[mh123]

Originally Posted by madcyril

I'm not sure but does certain medicines not show as low amounts of alchohol in blood tests which is why it will never be zero.

Take a look at the ingredients on the typical bottle of mouthwash...

[JohnG]

I don't think that there's any way of telling how long the alcohol has been in the system for. So Someone who's just had a pint could try and claim that they had 2 pints 3 hours ago or something similar. I just don't think it's workable to test for zero % alcohol in the blood.

[MartinImber]

Current level is about right.

It is not moderate drinking which causes problems it is one of the following

1) Drinking too much ie 1.5 x limit and up

2) Drinking a bit and also tired - tiredness in my mind is a bigger killer than drinking and driving, as there are few DD thses days but many TDs. The current infatuation with lowering speed limits also does not help with the tiredness problem.

However there is still an attitude problem.

A person used to get well drunk then drive 1/3rd mile home. Turned right at end of double white lines. Occasionally they couldn't get their car on the drive! - left it all night blocking the main road/

I said "Why doesn't someone report him?"

Every one was shocked at the idea, I said I wouldn't hesitate. People said why?

Now this is a big problem - when people are still condoning it like this.

BTW the good news is he doesn't do it anymore as died due to excessive drinking. Pity it wasn't an artic!

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by Dom996

Tricky one. I never have even one and drive, but I'm sure sometimes you could measure some booze in my system the morning after.

Drink too much anyway.

I think a lot of people would be very surprised to know how much alcohol was still in their blood the morning after a "good night out". Very often it's enough to fail a breath test.

My sis-in-law's ex-husband was a copper, and after a family party (where many people stayed over) he got out the breathalysers the morning after, for a laugh. Half of us failed, including him !

[NicolasB]

As has been pointed out several times, a zero limit for blood alcohol is impractical - simply eating a couple of slices of bread would make it illegal to drive. But I think the current drink-drive limit is way too high. It's certainly higher than in almost every other country. You want a limit where, if a typical person drinks one pint of lager (3 units), they need to wait nearly 4 hours before being allowed to drive.

[MartinImber]

Originally Posted by NicolasB

As has been pointed out several times, a zero limit for blood alcohol is impractical - simply eating a couple of slices of bread would make it illegal to drive. But I think the current drink-drive limit is way too high. It's certainly higher than in almost every other country. You want a limit where, if a typical person drinks one pint of lager (3 units), they need to wait nearly 4 hours before being allowed to drive.

At this level it would be overkill. The current limit is workable and as far as I am concerned fine - I don't go near it, halving would kill the pub food business.

I can safely have a pint with a meal and not worry.

I could drink two over two hours with soft drinks as well and be fine.

The key word is moderation.

I find that the amount I drink has no noticable effect, I don't drink much you see but I drink regularly about a unit a day.

As before I think that being tired is much more dangerous than having 1 or 2 pints of medium strength lager/cider, mixed the two and this is where things go wrong.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by MartinImber

At this level it would be overkill. The current limit is workable and as far as I am concerned fine - I don't go near it, halving would kill the pub food business.

I can safely have a pint with a meal and not worry.

I could drink two over two hours with soft drinks as well and be fine.

The key word is moderation.

I find that the amount I drink has no noticable effect, I don't drink much you see but I drink regularly about a unit a day.

As before I think that being tired is much more dangerous than having 1 or 2 pints of medium strength lager/cider, mixed the two and this is where things go wrong.

Trouble is Martin, is that not everyone can, as tests show, drive safely even after very little alcohol. Everyone is different according to weight, size, metabolism etc. I agree, a zero level is going too far, but even a little can be too much for some..............

An example? A mate of mine had (not seen him for a few years) a huge alcoholic capacity. He could drink 14-15 pints easily, but, he was usually nearly drunk after 3, and already showing signs of loss of control after just 1!

Going on a motorbike with him after just a swift pint was a nightmare. The delay in reaction times had kicked in, and cornering was a little less, erm, 'comfortable' than usual.

[Philly112]

Originally Posted by overkill

.
An example? A mate of mine had (not seen him for a few years) a huge alcoholic capacity. He could drink 14-15 pints easily

Wouldn't have thought you'd have been mates with William Hague...

Phil

[dejongj]

I think a total ban should come in....And they should also make the pubs non drinking places....People in this country should get some discipline and stop drinking so much, it totally sets the wrong example for the next generations, the countries productivity is going down the pan, people are becomming more obese, and there is so much agression as well....

Ban the stuff all together and less have a nice glass of fruit juice.....

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Philly112

Wouldn't have thought you'd have been mates with William Hague...

Phil

Actually, one of my best friends was the assistant secretary of the YC's. He dined with Major, and met Maggie many times as part of his duties. And no, I'm not kidding................

[Dom996]

Many years back I got breathalysed after 2 pints of premium lager (5%) drunk in 45 mins, I only came up amber, so legal.

I had, however, lobbed my bike up the road at 75mph and was loaded with adrenaline and strapped to a backboard.

A lesson to you all.

[MartinImber]

Problem is the culture in the UK.

I like a civilised drink, don't want to rush don't want to get drunk.

In France for example they are more civilsed, (mind you they also have a DD problem).

The main reason for a 80 whatever limit over 50 whatever is that there would be a lot more convictions for the one/two pint drinker. People also know whre to stop.

I tend to have just the one maybe two if over a longer period, I saw figures somewhere that you can shift roughly a unit per hour.

It is possible to have an long drinking session and remain sober!

As to effect I am sure I read that some people are possibly better with a very small amount of alcohol in them, as a very small amount relaxes them and puts them in a better mental state, but not enough to hinder reactions.

I will always stand by my view that tiredness is as dangerous and that more danger occurs due to the combination of tired and drink rather than just the alcohol.

Also do not forget that you can be done for not being in control even if below the 80whatever limit!

PS remember I am anti drunk driving and a big believer in moderation

[MartinImber]

Originally Posted by Dom996

Many years back I got breathalysed after 2 pints of premium lager (5%) drunk in 45 mins, I only came up amber, so legal.

I had, however, lobbed my bike up the road at 75mph and was loaded with adrenaline and strapped to a backboard.

A lesson to you all.

ooooooh painfull - also drunk too quickly - you should have had a couple of pints of soft drinks afterwards!

[MartinImber]

Originally Posted by overkill

Actually, one of my best friends was the assistant secretary of the YC's. He dined with Major, and met Maggie many times as part of his duties. And no, I'm not kidding................

At a previous job a collegue rented B&B rooms in a house and one he lived in belonged to an MP. They had a picture of the cabinet in their downstairs loo (with Maggie)!

[Beobloke]

Personally, i'd like more of a crack-down on the idiots who can't drive properly when they're sober...............

[JagoPlasma]

I think a total ban or very reduced amount would be a good idea.

the problem is with uncertanty and over confidence. my missus sister says, oh one pint is fine i can drive home afterwards. but is it ok? you may think you can handle it but can you? i know people who fall over after 1/2 a bottle of bacardi breezer(the alcopops variety)

after the initial pint has gone in then they say... well actually normally im fine so il have an extra half.... then an extra half... then an extra half.

take responsibilty for your actions, if you need to drive the next morning dont drink till 2am and expect to be fine.

theres a difference between low traces of alcohol in the blood and when someone has had a pint. if we dont drink mouthwash... like you shouldnt anyway *looks at MH123* you will be fine. like medicines, with somethings you just shouldnt be driving

i know for a fact if i've eaten well in a day i can drink three pints of stella and feel fine, but if i havent eaten much in the day i can feel tipsy on 1 pint of fosters.

so why do people think that 4hrs sleep overnight is enough time to burn off 2 pints of larger or 50 flaming samvucas?

as for me drinking and driving, i wont even get in a car with a sip of alcohol, id rather walk home

[NicolasB]

Originally Posted by MartinImber

At this level it would be overkill. The current limit is workable and as far as I am concerned fine - I don't go near it, halving would kill the pub food business.

I can safely have a pint with a meal and not worry.

A quick bit of googling brings up the following:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...916414,00.html

In this article they estimate (based on Department of Transport research) that simply lowering the legal limit from 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood to 50 would mean:

- 50 fewer people would be killed every year.
- 250 fewer people would be seriously injured every year.
- 1200 fewer people would be lightly injured every year.

Is your right to keep drinking worth the lives of 50 people a year? Are you prepared to go up to the families and friends and loved-ones of those 50 people who are killed each year and say "your husband/father/friend didn't die in vain: because of his sacrifice, I can have an extra pint at lunch-time without being arrested, and that makes his death worthwhile"?

They also mention that reducing the legal limit from 50mg to just 20 in Sweden resulted in a significant farther reduction in road accident deaths - in other words, even 50 is too high.

People driving at or near the current legal limit are anything up to 6 times more likely to be involved in an accident than when they're sober. And it is also characteristic of people who drink and drive that they think they're driving just as well as they do when they're sober. The very first thing to be affected by alcohol is your ability to judge whether your driving has been impaired or not: many people think it's safe for them to drive after a couple of pints, and they're all wrong.

It's completely irrelevant in my view, as speed cameras can't breathalyse people yet.

From what I've seen and heard, people only get breathalysed after a crash, by which time it's too late.

The laws relating to motoring are now completely redundant, as the government has replaced the police force with a load of cameras, and some council workers with brooms in fake police cars.

As long as you brake before all the cameras, you won't ever get in trouble.

[MartinImber]

Originally Posted by NicolasB

A quick bit of googling brings up the following:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...916414,00.html

In this article they estimate (based on Department of Transport research) that simply lowering the legal limit from 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood to 50 would mean:

- 50 fewer people would be killed every year.
- 250 fewer people would be seriously injured every year.
- 1200 fewer people would be lightly injured every year.

Is your right to keep drinking worth the lives of 50 people a year? Are you prepared to go up to the families and friends and loved-ones of those 50 people who are killed each year and say "your husband/father/friend didn't die in vain: because of his sacrifice, I can have an extra pint at lunch-time without being arrested, and that makes his death worthwhile"?

lots snipped.

Personally I don't trust statistics (A level maths) but I would still lay big money that late night tiredness has a major impact on those figures.