Hopefully some legal expert/employment law specialist out there can give some advice regarding a fabricated allegation against me at my work, which whilst further investigation is taking place I have been suspended.

An anonymous letter was sent to my employer stating that they (female) picked up a blank disc from my desk, took this home with them and watched, and was then shocked to discover that it was of a pornographic nature, the letter went on to say that they were shocked and then claimed to know that I was openly distributing this amongst staff.

Now this is complete and utter rubbish and it is obvious there is someone attempting to get me into as much bother as possible.

I have my suspicions who is behind this, but I have no proof at all, and even if I were to raise my suspicions at the coming disciplinary, my only evidence would be that, me and this person (male) had an argument about a year ago, and no longer talk as a result.

There is absolutely no evidence to connect me with this DVD, and whilst I am suspended they will investigate the matter further i.e. attempt to ascertain from other members of staff if I have been supplying pornographic DVD’s around the work place.

I have no qualms that the end result will be that there is no evidence to support the anonymous allegation and the matter will be dropped, however I am still very concerned that this has happen, I am probably still in shock and not thinking straight either.

I do loan & borrow normal DVD’s with other staff, including management but to suggest that I am distributing porn to staff is a bloody joke, but as you will guess I am raging.

Now I don’t even know what advice I am asking, because as I said previously nothing more should come out of this, I guess I am surprised that I have been suspended considering it was sent to my employer anonymously with the actual disc, surly they could see that this is an obvious malicious attempt to get me into trouble, but my employer say it’s the process.

So, I have obviously denied the allegation, denied that the disc belonged to me in the first place.

Do I raise my suspicions and name this clown, even though I know I have no evidence and that this person would obviously deny any responsibility to being the culprit who sent the allegation etc.

I mean, even if it was true, surely it should more of a concern that someone has admitted to stealing someone else’s property, and would a thief also be shocked at watching porn too, these are just some of the things floating around my in my head, on how laughable and flawed this whole matter is, but as I said I am not really thinking straight and feel like inflicting as much damage to this clown I can.
Any advice welcome.

Regards


PS

I have used a new members login and not my own as I would rather conceal my identity at them moment.

Given the seriousness of this situation, I really think you need to see a solicitor.

[GBDG1]

Even if this were true there would be no grounds to take action against you. Someone stole something from your desk which later turned out to be porn. You are perfectly within your rights to have porn on your desk in dvd form, this would in no way violate any rules/laws. It is utterly stupid.

Edit: I missed the allegation about distribution, even so... the stealing of the disk and the distribution are two completly unlinked events. This is absloutly mad...

Yip - mental eh!

[GBDG1]

Are you in a union?

[GBDG1]

If they interview the staff then surely everyone will just say that they have never recieved any porn from you, there will be no evidence and this whole thing will be dropped. I even think you would acctually be within your rights to distribute porn to your workmates, so long as it was not happening in work time, and it was mutually conscential. Also if it was on dvd and wasn't using your work computers etc...

Lawrenzini, no, I am not in a union, and yhea I doubt it will go further as I havent distributed it.

Hi why I said talk to a solicitor is that you never know if this creep has done something else. I heard of a similar situation where a girl had a grudge against a guy and actually used his workstation to access porn while he was at lunch so that there was a 'paper trail' to back up her false allegations. You could also claim unfair treatment and distress (which you are obviously in) from your employer for suspending you over this matter.

[M-C-P-M]

What my concern would be mate is, if in fact there was porn on the DVD she took home, that although you did not create or distribute it, the person who did will now have a very convenient scape goat to blame!!!!
Go to a solicitor and or join a union! you should cover every base. Good luck

[sbowler]

Deny all knowledge of it, anyone could have put anything on your desk. If there is no link to you then there is no case and you will be cleared. Good luck.

[unique]

if they have suspended you on full pay, it sounds like they are at least taking reasonable steps to follow good practice. if they follow this, and you are innocent as you say, and the disc didn't come from you, then they won't have sufficient evidence fire you for gross misconduct. thats not to say they can't still make that decision and fire you for gross misconduct, but you would then have grounds to take them to a tribunal for unlawful dismissal. it would then be up to your employer to convince the tribunal they have taken reasonable steps in thier actions

as the letter is annonymous, they have less evidence of the matter as there are no witnesses of the specific case. whatever happens, you should press for them to investigate and take action against the person who has done this, including legal action if you can. depending on how they have treated the disc, it's probably unlikely they will get a fingerprint match (if the people at work investigating played back the disc they will add prints), or even attempt to go down that route, likewise fingerprinting the letter, which i presume is also typed rather than handwritten

if they follow this through appropriately, they will ask you questions which you will have to answer, you should also get a chance to add other comments. if you are completely guilt free, you should say this and tell them that it is up to them to proove your guilt, and if not you want a full apology in writing, and you want that communicated to all your collegues and line management. you should also advise who you think is behind the matter and ask to raise a formal complaint to be investigated in the same way as you have been, as that matter is far more serious than your case

even if you did leave a disc left on your desk, as long as the material is not illegal in this country, and doesnt break any copywrite laws (not that breaking copywrite should be a matter of gross misconduct in most workplaces), then i personally wouldn't normally consider that an offence serious enough to warrant gross misconduct. for someone to remove a personal item of yours without your permission may however be considered gross misconduct, as it's amost, if not, theft, even if the item was later returned. if the person who sent the letter and disc was later named and admitted to sending the disc, you could ask for action to be taken against them for theft of the disc in the event they believe the person who sent it in

a solicitor would be a good idea, however costly. you could try contacting both ACAS and citizens advise, and perhaps ask if you had to get a lawyer involved, can you get the costs recovered.

if there is a company union, and union representatives, even tho your not in the union, you can ask them for help. they can only say yes or no. they may offer to help you in return for you joining, or you may be given the option to join and they will take up your case

i'm pretty confident if you are innocent as you say, then a reasonable employer taking the appropriate steps shouldn't find you guilty without a shadow of a doubt and thus gross misconduct would be appropriate. if they are unsure, they could give you a formal warning, even if it's a final written warning, and you would still be employed. so it doesn't necessarily need to result in you being fired even if they did think you were guilty. you also have the right of appeal even if things go wrong, and ACAS should be able to help you

and i hope the discs you have been swapping about are both legit (not copies) and not pr0n in the slightest, otherwise you could also have difficulties there

[unique]

btw, this person you fell out with, what was the argument about that was so strong that you don't talk to them? where you friends previously (ie. good friends), or was it just someone that you normally wouldn't care less if you talked to them or not?

i mean, do you really think someone would do this to you after such a long period? someone would have to really hate you to do this. has there been another event more recently that may have upset that person enough to arise further upset in them to pursue the matter? ie. you get a rise/promotion and they don't?

if there is something like that going on, you can add that to your story

also, did they give you a letter to advise what is going on? did they tell you how long you are fomally suspended for, and when you are to come back for a formal hearing?

[lynx]

Being suspended is not part of the disciplinary process, it does however give the employer an opportunity to investigate the allegations and it can reflect positively on yourself as you won't be around to influence any part of the investigation.
If management decide they have evidence to support progression to a formal disciplinary
you are entitled to copies of evidence that management intend to use against you. To enable you to test the evidence you should insist on cross-examining any wittnesses/evidence...and your accuser.

As a point of interest...
In employment tribunal case UKEAT(0056/05),Brien T/A Merafield View Nursing Home v Crisp, the tribunal found the employer acted unfairly in dismissing the employee on the grounds of an anonymous complaint.

[Londondecca]

In the circumstances, suspension on full pay is not unreasonable although it might depend on the firms procedures on misuse of computers etc.

I do not know if it possible to identify which computer made the DVD or any other features such as time or dates, maybe a computer expert might be able to help.

As for solicitors, this can be useful if you find an expert in employment law, these are not so easy to find, there are plenty of lawyers who have some knowledge but tend to be useless in serious matters.

It is an offence to deliberately and misleading claim someone else has committed an offence, if the other person could be shown to have acted vindictively, this would constitute a disciplinary and depending on the circumstances it could be gross misconduct.

The place to start is always with the company handbook or policies/procedures - don't read them, study them. Do not assume the evidence will find you innocent, you will need to be much more proactive but do not panic either.

Study any relevant procedures such as the grievance, disciplinary and any computer related documents, this is all the employer can rely on unless the porn was of a sufficiently serious nature which would require the Police to be informed eg child porn.

[unique]

Originally Posted by Londondecca

In the circumstances, suspension on full pay is not unreasonable although it might depend on the firms procedures on misuse of computers etc.

I do not know if it possible to identify which computer made the DVD or any other features such as time or dates, maybe a computer expert might be able to help.

As for solicitors, this can be useful if you find an expert in employment law, these are not so easy to find, there are plenty of lawyers who have some knowledge but tend to be useless in serious matters.

It is an offence to deliberately and misleading claim someone else has committed an offence, if the other person could be shown to have acted vindictively, this would constitute a disciplinary and depending on the circumstances it could be gross misconduct.

The place to start is always with the company handbook or policies/procedures - don't read them, study them. Do not assume the evidence will find you innocent, you will need to be much more proactive but do not panic either.

Study any relevant procedures such as the grievance, disciplinary and any computer related documents, this is all the employer can rely on unless the porn was of a sufficiently serious nature which would require the Police to be informed eg child porn.

i dont think you can tell which computer a disc was burned from, but i would guess it was done at someones home rather than them risk getting caught copying pr0n at work. they might not even have dvd burners in the office

but even if you could, as with fingerprint tests, most employers won't go to those lengths, and in the eyes of ACAS i doubt think they would consider those having to be reasonable steps in the matter. (you cant expect employers doing fingerprinting and dna testing etc on employment issues, it's not like someone has comitted a serious crime)

your right about solicitors, it's easy to tell someone to do it, but why should the innocent pay the costs, particularly when someone is trying to play a trick on you. employment law specialists cant be cheap either

if your accuser becomes known (which i would doubt it) then you can press for charges to that person, even pending the outcome of disciplinary matters as it's technically a seperate issue, but i doubt they will, so as per the nursing home case i doubt they can find you completely guilty without a known accuser/witness

[Nick_UK]

The majority of UK solicitors don't charge for the first hour of their time for new clients, and this should be more than enough to get your points across and receive advice.

newbee just one thing .what about the freedom of information act? do you have the right by law to know the who did this to you

[meansizzler]

So if you were supposidly distributing them out to everone in the office, then why did the person who sent the letter steal it off your desk?.., and where is the proof, if the person who sent the letter was smart enough they would of sent a copy of the dvd as evidence, have you had a private chat with your employer about this yes yet, no need to get the law into yet if you do not need to. .., did your employer even have a chat with you about this situation to try and ressolve the matter before suspending you, personally I think your employer is a panzy and if he is not willing to listen to you them you should take this matter up with someone who is in a higher position than him.

[Daddy k]

this is stupid!

i might go and rob an old lady tommorrow then complain when i find something in her handbck that offends me!


mate i hope u get this sorted!

dont matter whats on that disk it was ur property on ur desk!

hope i dont get burgled! the gits will get off by sayingthey found ppron in my house!


ps is that u again dad? iv told ubout those disks!

[unique]

Originally Posted by raymond britten

newbee just one thing .what about the freedom of information act? do you have the right by law to know the who did this to you

thats got nothing to do with it (completely different subject matter).

the accuser is anonymous so far. if the employer is aware of the accuser then they would usually have to tell the accused in order to have a fair hearing

[lynx]

Originally Posted by krismc

!

dont matter whats on that disk it was ur property on ur desk!

kris, unfortunately it may indeed matter. Employment law is a complex area,however for the sake of setting the scene try and visualise the days of Victorian laws and culture and a concept known as Master and Servant....this is still the concept that todays employment law can be argued to represent in many areas.A quick search on Google will give you an idea of this...http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...UK%7CcountryGB

Unique,

yhea I have been suspended on full pay whilst they investigate the matter further. I am a bit dubious about naming the person I believe is responsible, as I have no evidence at all to support my claim against this person. Incident took place because in brief, me as a manager questioned a member of IT for distracting my staff, within a target driven, service level environment.

I don’t feel how this would support my own beliefs that this person is responsible, apart from we have never spoke to each other since, but I do feel he would do this too me after all this time. Sort of guy, well ‘coward’ if I offered him a square go, sniff, sniff, whats that smell? Hope you get my meaning, he couldn’t pose a threat without hiding.

Anyway, I wouldn't feel comfortable making an accusation on that evidence alone.

Yes, the DVD’s that are normally swapped, borrowed, loan to, loaned, are always legit, but, real world, rarely you might borrow a non legit copy.

I ensured that I was advised what they meant by ‘further investigation’ and I was told that members of staff would be questioned over if they knew of any activities within the department were someone was distributing porn, my name, I was told would not be mentioned. I hold no fears in anyone coming forward and confirming this allegation, but after being accused of this in the first place, who knows?

I mean, I am always exchanging DVD’s, it’s a hobby, 32inch widescreen LCD, with excellent 5.1 surround etc, etc etc, so I am always watching movies, and swapping these with close work mates, god, I’m married with kids, distributing porn, f sake it;’s ridiculous that I have not been supported by my employer over this, remembering the letter and disc were sent anonymously, in my opinion an obvious attempt to get one over me..

Yes, possibly years gone by, when I was younger, single, yes we all swapped some porn, but to be accused of distributing amongst the department, what does that actually mean anyway? One, two, three, nine hundred employees? Then again, that film ‘9 Songs; floated about the office, is that considered pornography, I say yhea it does, but the cinema played it, HMV sold it on sale recently for about a fiver, the description on the cover clearing advertises ‘Franz Ferdinham’; ‘Supper Fury Animals’ and more, as the soundtrack for the movie, maybe it was this film, quite explicit movie I must say?

As this only happened this afternoon, I have not seen copies of the allegation etc, but I will obtain these on Tuesday (nice Easter L) think just the surprise and shock took me a back slightly, I am hovering between incredible hulk mode & MR Angry.

Londonecca, No allegations about where disc was made, only that a complaint had been received and I have and distribute amongst the department porn.

I’ve tried to answer most of your responses, had a couple also, so hopefully makes sense.

I Appreciate all your feedback.& advice, thank you and please feel free to add more, as I am picking up useful information.

Regards

I hope it all works out Ok for you. Not easy but try and have a good easter.

The truth will out. If you are innocent - and I have no reason for doubting that you are - then this will eventually be proved. Try to hang in there in the meantime, however unpleasant the situation is now.

Good luck!

[GBDG1]

I think the only course of action you can take now is to get a bloody big chocolate egg, and eat it all yourself in one sitting.

[Bristol Pete]

As ever, log everything, seek decent representation and equality. I was in a similar position two years ago, however, I was accused of looking at porn online by a female member of staff who had a personal issue with the fact that I was promoted to maintain a team at work in her place. The panel of people who investigated me were all ladies, reasonable people but it left it all a bit one sided and I ensured my union rep was male for equilibrium if nothing else.

In my experience, I was hung drawn and quatered without evidence to support the claim due to the above but eventually I was vindicated and the 'bully' was shipped off to another office. To be honest, in work, I never recovered from the accusation and left in the end is it changed everything and I still feel anger about the situation as I never, ever, ever looked at porn. At least your employer is being sensible.

Keep us posted, you have our support - remain calm and rational and note it is all about material facts. Prove them.

Pete.

[unique]

what youve said raises a few more questions.

you mention the movie 9 songs, and admit some people might find it pr0nographic. is it possible that was the movie handed over? do you know what was on the disc? ie. full on pr0n or a more commercial movie? if you've been loaning 9 songs around, then i suppose someone who has a grudge against you could take that as an opportunity to try and get at you. if this is the disc in question, and someone borrowed it from you, and left it on your desk for someone else to move, then i hope the person who you loaned it to can say that they were warned about the content of the material before watching, and you can then say the accuser was perhaps shocked by the content as they took the disc without your permission, and if they hadnt done so, then the situation would not have arisen. i trust you havent loaned that movie to someone who didnt know what was in it? have you seen the contents of the complaints letter? is it possible that someone might have borrowed it, and let a teenager watch it as it mentions the various bands, not knowing of the other content, and thus causing the complaint?

as you are a manager, and your company sounds reasonably big, then a responsible company/management probably would be pretty concerned and worried if they heard rumours that someone of management status was distributing pr0n, even if its just a case of letting other staff borrow discs. so under those circumstances what they have done is maybe a bit more understandable. they could even be concerned if they got complaints about a manager quite opening loaning discs around the office, as they would want to avoid trouble if there are any accusations about seniour management allowing staff to distribute pirate discs etc (i'm not suggesting you are, but these could be concerns going through managements heads, particularly if they don't know you too much personally, nor what goes on in your dept). there was a newspaper campaign recently about this.

another thing you mentioni is that in your youth you might have swapped pr0n about, i hope for your sake that was with another employer, so there is no-one currently employed that if pushed, could possibly say that at one time you did loan or borrow pr0n. your best not to ever mention that you ever did this. they may ask you a direct question if you have ever done this, i doubt they would push about asking about previous jobs, so just answer that "you have never swapped or borrowed pr0nographic material during your employment with x company", unless thats a lie, if you get caught lying, even a white lie, it's bad news

i suppose under the circumstances, it's maybe not too surprising that you employer isn't giving you the support at the moment, as they have obviously taken this issue seriously, and have concerns that you are distributing pr0n, which could potentially open them up for problems along the lines of sexual discrimination, etc (i'm not sure if that would be the exact category, but you get the idea - you read in the papers about females complaining about bosses allowing this that and the next thing going on in the workplace, they get offended, resign and claim constructive dismissal and sexual harrassment, the companies name is then trawled thru the mud in the papers - thus your employer is trying to avoid this)

during investigations, if things arent going well in your favor, you probably wont have anything to lose by naming the person you think it is. your employer will probably ask you who you may think it is, so thats the opportunity to mention names

[Miyazaki]

The trouble is, everyone at work will know why you have been suspended and will say thinks like "no smoke without fire" and other ********, and your working life there will be forever tarnished.

I would personally use this time now to find yourself another job, and persue a civil action against the person that reported the allegation.

[mjn]

Originally Posted by sbowler

Deny all knowledge of it, anyone could have put anything on your desk. If there is no link to you then there is no case and you will be cleared. Good luck.

If the disc was simply on your desk, then i wouldn't worry about it. Unless she went through your locked desk draw or locker, then they is no evidence that:

1) You put the disc on your desk, could have been anybody ( i assume you're in an open plan office)
2) You made the dvd
3) And finally doesn't she have to prove she took(stole) the disc from your desk?

At the end of the day, she could have made the porno DVD herself!

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by Concerned Membe

Unique,

yhea I have been suspended on full pay whilst they investigate the matter further. I am a bit dubious about naming the person I believe is responsible, as I have no evidence at all to support my claim against this person..........

Don't allow yourself to be lured into a trap. One of the managers where I once worked didn't like me, so he tried to lure me into a trap. He called me into a meeting, and tried to get me to say things that I might later regret. What he didn't tell me (and only became evident when the meeting over-ran and the tape ran out, and the tape machine made a noise) was that he was secretly recording the meeting.

Take legal advice - the first half-hour or hour is free for new clients of solicitors, or you can seek advice through the Citizens Advice Bureau. Do not make contact with anyone whilst you are suspended, and if you are called into a meeting, you are entitled to bring in an independent witness. Do not make any accusations you can't prove, because this may be what they are trying to provoke you into doing.