[Miyazaki]

There are plenty of scare stories and now paypal are getting the attention they deserve.

What is the point in paying paypal any money when they offer next to nothing in return for it.

Just like their parent company ebay, they facilitate criminal activity by effectively allowing people to rip you off, and then do nothing about it. Ebay allow sales of counterfeit goods and do next to nothing about it when you are ripped off.

Avoid!

[sbowler]

Maybe a system where people have to pay a membership fee or put up a garantee of a certain amount that is held by a third party as insurance. Then if they rip people of they lose there deposit. like renting a flat, you have to pay a bond.

[Jenn]

You pay fees to Paypal, that's to have some kind of security. Most people probably believe that Paypal is like some kind of insurance.
What's the point of using them otherwise ?

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by Games Guru

Just like their parent company ebay, they facilitate criminal activity by effectively allowing people to rip you off, and then do nothing about it.

I'd be very careful what you say - if you can't prove it, Ebay could sue you.

Watchdog didn't exactly wipe the floor with Paypal, did they ?

[Londondecca]

facilitate criminal activity strong words indeed

[Miyazaki]

there are companies sueing ebay in the usa ATM over the amount of counterfeit goods on thier site.

[Uridium]

Actually I had a positive experince recently with Paypal!

I bought a secondhand IPAQ of a seller with 300+ positive feedback, paing by paypal It arrives and is as dead as a dodo. plug it into the mains and it hangs at the bootloader, now from experience i know this is down to a failed firmware upgrade.

I emailed the seller several times and get no response so i made a claim with paypal. I was a bit concerned when i was told i would have to post the IPAQ back before they could claim my cashback but didn't have a lot of choice so posted it back to the seller.

Next day as soon as i sent paypal my proof of postage I got an immediate FULL refund (no deductions by them and even postage both ways!)

PayPal is sometimes the only way to pay for stuff. I know of an obscure book seller in the US that I sometimes buy from which insists on PayPal and nowt else. If you want their wares, you gotta pay by their rules.

[spocktra]

Originally Posted by Games Guru

there are companies sueing ebay in the usa ATM over the amount of counterfeit goods on thier site.

GOOD!!!

[Nick_UK]

Paypal do hundreds of thousands of transactions a day, and Watchdog get 30 letters of complaint.

Big deal

[GaryB]

Originally Posted by Nick_UK

Paypal do hundreds of thousands of transactions a day, and Watchdog get 30 letters of complaint.

Big deal

Spot On. The number of complaints means little unless it is compared with the number of transactions, which must be millions.

[Jenn]

30 letters of complaint a week to Watchdog.

That's not the number of people pulling their hair out because of Paypal, that's the number of people who write to Watchdog about it. There's a difference.

According to different websites there are thousands of unhappy users. Some have actually succesfully sued Papayl for $5 million IIRC. I've even seen 4% of unhappy Paypal users somwhere, although I don't know how true that is.

[DJT75]

Paypal fees annoy me, but then so does my council tax, TV licence, car insurance........not a lot you can do about it if you need it..

[PoochJD]

Hi,

Originally Posted by Nick_UK

Paypal do hundreds of thousands of transactions a day, and Watchdog get 30 letters of complaint.

Big deal

Umm, Nick, you've got that wrong! As Jenn mentions above, Watchdog are receiving an average 30 letters per month, about PayPal's crappy service! That's one complaint every single day (on average). It may not sound much to you, but I think that it's a bad sign for PayPal, with regards to its customers in the UK.

For me, I won't use PayPal because I don't trust them. I'd much rather pay by postal order, (or a traveller's cheque) which have a tiny bit of security attached to them, so if a seller decides to cash them, then not send me the goods, or send me an item that isn't as described, then I can go back tot he travel agent or post office, and get them to give me a refund, and put in a form to the police that the PO or traveller's cheque has been fraudulently cashed!

Oh, and e-Bay has been a victim of its own success! I do like it, but don't use it as often as a few years back. Put simply, there are too many ways eBay will use as excuses to get out of helping you when things go wrong, but are more than happy to let people flog fraudulent items on their site, providing they get their Fees paid! Rotten !


Pooch

[GBDG1]

I genuinly believe that ebay has had too much success too soon and will soon fail and be replaced by something better. It seems to be run by about 5 people, all of who are slow. It spends loads of money on marketing but virtually nothing on it's product. If I went on e-by now and searched for anything, out of the 25 results on a page at least 10 will be either a total scam, or a slight scammy like an e-book or a picture of an item or a broken item. I have bought 12 things off ebay and have already been scammed, luckily only for 11 quid and I am very careful, I even take the time to read all someone's negative feedback.

I think that virtually everyone who uses ebay has either been scammed or someone has tried it on with them. It is only a matter of time before someone has a better idea and everyone moves to that.

[shahedz]

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

I genuinly believe that ebay has had too much success too soon and will soon fail and be replaced by something better. It seems to be run by about 5 people, all of who are slow. It spends loads of money on marketing but virtually nothing on it's product. If I went on e-by now and searched for anything, out of the 25 results on a page at least 10 will be either a total scam, or a slight scammy like an e-book or a picture of an item or a broken item. I have bought 12 things off ebay and have already been scammed, luckily only for 11 quid and I am very careful, I even take the time to read all someone's negative feedback.

I think that virtually everyone who uses ebay has either been scammed or someone has tried it on with them. It is only a matter of time before someone has a better idea and everyone moves to that.

well put, i have to agree with you 100% there

[Keith Hurst]

With regard to eBay and negative fedback. For those users out there using FireFox you might like to install this little extension.

http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs

It opens up only the negative feedback of a highlighted eBay user. Handy.

KH

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by PoochJD

....Umm, Nick, you've got that wrong! As Jenn mentions above, Watchdog are receiving an average 30 letters per month, about PayPal's crappy service! That's one complaint every single day (on average). It may not sound much to you, but I think that it's a bad sign for PayPal, with regards to its customers in the UK.

I meant to say "per month", and no, I don't think one complaint a day is much. Heck, I did 5 Paypal transactions myself last night, and I'm just one of millions.

Originally Posted by PoochJD

.... For me, I won't use PayPal because I don't trust them. I'd much rather pay by postal order, (or a traveller's cheque) which have a tiny bit of security attached to them, so if a seller decides to cash them, then not send me the goods, or send me an item that isn't as described, then I can go back tot he travel agent or post office, and get them to give me a refund, and put in a form to the police that the PO or traveller's cheque has been fraudulently cashed!

Well, a couple of points. Have you seen how much the Post Office charge extra on a postal order these days ? Makes Paypal look quite reasonable ! I'm sure that the post office would want proof of fraud before they would give any refunds.

I have been buying and selling on Ebay since 2002, and I have done well over 300 transactions in that time. I have only ever had one problem with Ebay in all that time, and that was with the Metropolitan Police, who sold me 3 mobile phones "in working order" which were useless junk. I did get a refund on the phones, but not on the expensive shipping they charged. I've never had a problem with Paypal. Using Paypal takes about 3 days out of the delivery process.

[GBDG1]

all you need to do to only look at negative feedback on ebay is select "last 12 months" and then click negative... easy peasy. No need for a browser tool.

[Jenn]

Paypal is fine if you don't have problems. But if you do, good luck!

[GBDG1]

A few improvments I would make to ebay...

1. Make feedback compulsary and double blind. So it only appears when you have both filled it in.

2. Pay people 10p to report fraudulent listing, these then get processed by moderator type people. Ebay don't lose anything because the 10p only comes out of the listing fee of the person who attempted the fraud.

3. (as mentioned earlier) In order to sell on ebay you should have a reasonible size deposit held by e-bay incase you are naughty.

4. A proven fraudster should be banned forever, full stop. There are ways around this, but if it stops anyone it will be worth it. (how many times have you seen someone with 150 neg feedback, why are they allowed?)

5. Stop stupid things like people adding Vat on after sale. This is one of the most annoying things in the world, it's not your shop it's ebay.

[Steven]

This may be bad (as it may add to eBay profits)...

but they should work with big delivery firms like FedEx, Royal Mail, ParcelForce etc and sort out the ludicrous amount of insurance + postage ppl add on

I don't shop on eBay...my brother does, and it amazes me people accept sky high insurance prices when, for example it cost me £3 to insure my £180 PSP when I sent it off to be fixed!

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

A few improvments I would make to ebay...

1. Make feedback compulsary and double blind. So it only appears when you have both filled it in.

Agreed, but I'm not sure how you'd force people to leave feedback.

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

2. Pay people 10p to report fraudulent listing, these then get processed by moderator type people. Ebay don't lose anything because the 10p only comes out of the listing fee of the person who attempted the fraud.

Problem is that a lot of stuff isn't easily detected as fraudulent, until you've got it, like hookey DVD's and illegal copies of software.

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

3. (as mentioned earlier) In order to sell on ebay you should have a reasonible size deposit held by e-bay incase you are naughty.

Don't agree at all. It's penalising sellers, and many ebay problems are problems with buyers.

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

4. A proven fraudster should be banned forever, full stop. There are ways around this, but if it stops anyone it will be worth it. (how many times have you seen someone with 150 neg feedback, why are they allowed?)

How do you identify people well enough to ban them for life ? I've not seen many people with big negative feedbacks, and if I did, I'd avoid them like the plague.

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

5. Stop stupid things like people adding Vat on after sale. This is one of the most annoying things in the world, it's not your shop it's ebay.

If you are a seller, and you are registered for VAT, you are bound by law to charge it. Most sellers make it clear that VAT will be charged. If I sell anything on Ebay on behalf of my company, I always warn of the VAT, and I include the VAT in the winning bid, so the buyer doesn't pay any extra.

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

This may be bad (as it may add to eBay profits)...

but they should work with big delivery firms like FedEx, Royal Mail, ParcelForce etc and sort out the ludicrous amount of insurance + postage ppl add on

I don't shop on eBay...my brother does, and it amazes me people accept sky high insurance prices when, for example it cost me £3 to insure my £180 PSP when I sent it off to be fixed!

Ebay now at least put the P & P in the listings. One thing that became obvious on the Watchdog "expose" was that in order to get compensation from Paypal, they need proof of delivery. In order to get that, you need some sort of courier service, or the Post Office "signed for" service, which can push the P & P prices up.

[GBDG1]

Stop people listing/buying new items till they have left feedback.


Agreed it is sometimes hard to spot scams, but sometimes they are just obvious. Like a 500quid thing listed for 90 in china...


A despsoit doesn't penalise sellers, it's a deposit, you can get it back.


The guy who recently got sent down for selling goods he didn't have did it twice, was convicted, came outta prison and did it again. He registered under his real name both times. They didn't stop him registering the second time... madness.

If you are a seller and you're registered for Vat then you should incoperate that into your costs by either using a reserve, factoring it into a buy it now or by having a higher starting price.

[Nick_UK]

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

Stop people listing/buying new items till they have left feedback.

It wouldn't work. You don't leave feedback until the goods have arrived, which can take up to two weeks. So far, I've bought 3 things on Ebay this week - with your system, I could only have bought 1.

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

Agreed it is sometimes hard to spot scams, but sometimes they are just obvious. Like a 500quid thing listed for 90 in china...

Fools are easily parted from their money, and that happens everywhere. Only a couple of weeks ago, a couple of blokes were flogging laptop PC's at only £50 a time. Buyers would be led to the nearest cash machine, and after they'd paid their £50, they got a sealed cardboard box. When the buyers eventually got the boxes open to reveal some scrap metal wrapped in newspaper, the sellers were long gone. Old proverb - "If something appears too good to be true, it invariably is".

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

A despsoit doesn't penalise sellers, it's a deposit, you can get it back.

Yes, but as we already know, sellers aren't always the problem.

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

The guy who recently got sent down for selling goods he didn't have did it twice, was convicted, came outta prison and did it again. He registered under his real name both times. They didn't stop him registering the second time... madness.

I daresay that with millions of users, many registered users have the same name. If someone is intent on working a scam, they're very hard to stop.

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

If you are a seller and you're registered for Vat then you should incoperate that into your costs by either using a reserve, factoring it into a buy it now or by having a higher starting price.

You have to charge VAT on the selling price AND the carriage. How can you factor it in, if you don't know what the final selling price is ? If you charge too much or too little VAT, you are breaking the law. Believe me, the Customs & Excise are not people to mess around with.

[johndon]

I'm the director of a software company who provide software for eBay users to automatically handle the VAT calculations in their accounts software for items they sell on eBay.

They'll put an item on eBay and accept the fact that the final selling price is, assuming that the buyer is in the UK, is, for accounting purposes, the gross price of the item.

So, for example, if they sell an item for £99.00 is goes through their accounts as Net £84.26 and Vat of £14.74. If the buyer is outside the UK, then no Vat is chanrged and the transaction goes through their accounts as a Net of £100 with Vat of zero.

John

[Mr Incredible]

Originally Posted by johndon

So, for example, if they sell an item for £99.00 is goes through their accounts as Net £84.26 and Vat of £14.74. If the buyer is outside the UK, then no Vat is chanrged and the transaction goes through their accounts as a Net of £100 with Vat of zero.

John

So your software adds £1.00 to the gross selling price to end up with a net £100?

[johndon]

Fortunately, it adds up correctly, unlike me

John

[Mr Incredible]

To be a pedant, your software subtracted a value of zero correctly!