[Ethics Gradient]

It never ceases to amaze me what some people say when asked about someone recently convicted or envolved in a crime .... especially a horrific one.

According to the news:

'Neighbours have described the graduate, who studied sports science at Leeds Metropolitan University, as a "good Muslim".'

The was said about Shehzad Tanweer who sucide bombed the tube between Aldgate and Liverpool Street.

I often see comments similar to this regarding other cases .....

surely describing someone who has just murdered 7 innocent people and injured many more as 'a good Muslim' is not quite 'correct'

'evil little Bword' would be in my opinion more appropriate.

[stevegreen]

True enough, trouble is the sense of community in many area's of Britain has slowly been lost to such a point where no-one really knows the neighbours anymore. Very sad.

And, of course, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I agree,
There was a bloke who lived round the corner from the rest of my family, He couldnt do enough for people, gardening,odd jobs , shopping etc,etc
turned out to be a kiddy fiddler. and people still say "ooh! he was such a nice bloke"

[stevegreen]

A similar situation is happening to a friend of Lorna's. She has lived, with her daughter, next door to a school teacher for the last few years and always got on with him like a house on fire, until he was raided a few weeks ago and they found pictures of her daughter playing in the swimming pool with friends, she is around 8. Apparently he had around 65 pictures of her along with other 'material'

Needless to say, their friendliness has diminished somewhat!

[seany]

Yeah but it's just the impression somone has of a person, fact is most killers ect are someone's son daughter friend brother neighbour ect. Most offenders are just ordinary people 99% of the time and that's all most people ever know of them until such things happen.

You can't really blame people for coming out with such things when they only ever see one side of that person

[overkill]

You can't really blame people for coming out with such things when they only ever see one side of that person

Exactly. The reason why these people can get away with such acts is that they seem very ordinary.

A good example was the Black Panther. By day a loving family man, well liked in the community, by night, an evil, serial rapist and killer.

A local example (where I grew up local), one of the guys a mate of mine went to school with, married with two kids, seemed a normal well adjusted guy. One day it turns out he'd been caught exposing himself to young girls. In court his poor wife broke down in tears when he asked for another 33 offenses to be taken into account............

People aren't ever what they seem. Even the 'normal' ones.

[stevegreen]

Originally Posted by seany

......... fact is most killers ect are someone's son daughter friend brother neighbour ect.

I would say thats a fairly safe bet

[Mr Cat]

Originally Posted by stevegreen

I would say thats a fairly safe bet

lol...

[Ethics Gradient]

Originally Posted by overkill

Exactly. The reason why these people can get away with such acts is that they seem very ordinary.

A good example was the Black Panther. By day a loving family man, well liked in the community, by night, an evil, serial rapist and killer.

A local example (where I grew up local), one of the guys a mate of mine went to school with, married with two kids, seemed a normal well adjusted guy. Turned out one day he'd been caught exposing himself to young girls. In court his poor wife broke down in tears when asked for another 33 offenses to be taken into account............

People aren't ever what they seem. Even the 'normal' ones.

its the fact that some people don't seem to 'update' their opions.

I could say "before I knew about what he did, I HELD the impression he was 'a good boy' "

I do understand for some people its simply there use of language and meaning thats at odds, but from what I understand / observe , there are some that completely detach 'person A' with 'criminal act B'.

Its like the good acts they do belong to a seperate person to the bad acts .... people should deal with the reality that 'the are parts of the whole'

I think its unhelpfull to society to when this happens, because its like people have a group amnesia with regards to certain peoples actions ..... allowing others to hide under the radar because people never suspect 'good little boys'

[overkill]

its the fact that some people don't seem to 'update' their opions.

I know what you mean, but I think people are just too shocked normally to react with an 'update'. They can't suddenly switch from 'nice enough guy' to 'God he's a mass murderer'.

A good example (and bizzare one!) is our favourite, serial killing doctor. There are still people banging on about "what a nice man he was". Huh! "But he killed hundreds of pe.......... never mind".

I think its unhelpfull to society to when this happens, because its like people have a group amnesia with regards to certain peoples actions ..... allowing others to hide under the radar because people never suspect 'good little boys'

Could be right, but what can you do? Mass re-education? Look at the US where 'TV evangelists' rip-off millions, sleep with tons of women (now that IS a good scam! ) get caught, yet when they appear on telly and blub a bit all is forgiven! The masses have a minute memory span when it comes to certain people - as you say.

I'm sure Freud could explain it, but............

[neilneil]

The same is often true of the parents of kids that have just been given an ASBO for terrorising the neighbourhood. "He's a good kid really...."

-Neil

[shodan]

Originally Posted by Neil Sumner

The same is often true of the parents of kids that have just been given an ASBO for terrorising the neighbourhood. "He's a good kid really...."

-Neil

But I bet THEIR neighbours don't say the same thing!!!

[Ethics Gradient]

Originally Posted by overkill

I know what you mean, but I think people are just too shocked normally to react with an 'update'. They can't suddenly switch from 'nice enough guy' to 'God he's a mass murderer'.

The reason that sparked my posting the thread, was the very specific case of
this guy being described as 'a good Muslim' ... and the fact that its a recent quote .. a month after the events.
( particularly it being such a sensitive topic of discussion atm with the Governments Policy anouncements / deportation etc )
.... it just got me thinking.

[JohnG]

What annoys me is when warning signs have been ignored. I remember about 10 years ago a local youth murdered a young girl and then did unspeakable things after he had killed her. After he was convicted neighbours came forward saying that he'd always been a bit strange as was always cutting up frogs and other little animals on the pavement outside the house.
FOR GODS SAKE TELL THE POLICE

[Moosh]

Originally Posted by Ethics Gradient

The reason that sparked my posting the thread, was the very specific case of
this guy being described as 'a good Muslim' ... and the fact that its a recent quote .. a month after the events.
( particularly it being such a sensitive topic of discussion atm with the Governments Policy anouncements / deportation etc )
.... it just got me thinking.

I fully agree with what you're saying and agree with Overkill at saying that they [terrorists/criminals etc.] have to blend in otherwise there is no way they'd get so far with their crime.

This thread has got me thinking and I think it can also be argued it depends on perspective. If the bloke prayed five times a day, gave to charity, read the Quran, went to prayers on Fridays etc. then he could be seen as a 'good muslim'. BUT for doing what he did a 'bad person'. Which would ultimately lead to being a 'bad muslim'.

I'm not saying that I'm smarter or better than the average Joe Bloggs but how many of those people have had a long hard think about it? Or even the [flame proof suit on] capacity [flame proof suit off] to think it through?

Moosh

Edited: I spotted a spelling mistake.

[seany]

Originally Posted by stevegreen

I would say thats a fairly safe bet

You know what i meant sherlock

[overkill]

The reason that sparked my posting the thread, was the very specific case of this guy being described as 'a good Muslim'

Yes, that is an interesting comment. As before though, people say things like a he (or she, as not all bombers are male) was a 'good Christian' or a good Protestant or Catholic (with regards a certain local conflict). It seems bizzare I know, but I think mmahmed made a good point in the 'seemed to be dept' by what he was doing prior to the event.

I can also see that it seems worrying that people from that religion can say such a thing, bearing in mind current events, but I'm afraid 'Christians' make the same daft comments in similiar circumstances.

I think (I may be wrong) but your other point is valid, in that it must worry people into thinking Muslims are turning a blind eye when they make comments like that. I'm equally sure it wasn't meant in that context.

[Jenn]

People are probably asked "What did you think of the man" or "What was the man like prior to ...".

And of course if the man seemed to be nice and polite and pleasant, they're not going to say "Oh yeah he was an evil monster, we knew it all the way".

By saying "He looked such a lovely person" or "He was a good dad and neighbour" doesn't mean that people excuse the horrible things he did, that's what they thought the guy was and like everyone else they're shocked that a "human" can do such bad things.