[BB3Lions]

Originally Posted by SimonH

Maybe but that's not the point on the thread , you'll need to read the original post carefully.

That said, rape, torture then murder of a 13 year old child is pretty atrocious son.

And so is a 64+ year old peadophile being let off by a judge because the 9 year old flirted with him.

Were no better at times.

[dan yeates]

Originally Posted by BB3Lions

And so is a 64+ year old peadophile being let off by a judge because the 9 year old flirted with him.

Were no better at times.

Not even close IMO.

[BB3Lions]

Originally Posted by dan yeates

Not even close IMO.

Each to they're own.


I actually wish some parts of there law be implemented into UK law, we would have a safer environment.

[mooperman]

Originally Posted by BB3Lions

And so is a 64+ year old peadophile being let off by a judge because the 9 year old flirted with him.

Were no better at times.

to be fair though, that is a rare occurrence from 1 utterly moronic judge, the things being discussed here are regular occurrences in Sharia Law....

In fact, if you take that particular case the outcome wouldve probably been much worse for that poor girl.

[dan yeates]

Originally Posted by SimonH

Some charming "fictional" news stories, presumably made up in order to discredit Sharia law.

Rights groups slam death-by-stoning sentence for Sudanese woman - latimes.com

'Modern' Life In Afghanistan -- Stoned to Death for Being In Love | Fox News

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/wo...17stoning.html

BBC News : Somali woman stoned for adultery

Horrific video emerges of Taliban fighters stoning couple to death for adultery | Mail Online

Shariah (Islamic) Law: Muslim Little Girl Stoned to Death for Being Raped - Atlas Shrugs

http://www************/causes/teenag...y-contest.html

That is a quick 30 second search , from multiple sources of multiple events.

This happens , whether our friend believes it does or doesn't.

There are also many videos available but I didn't post them, to hideous to watch.

Are people simply unaware or desperate to pretend it doesn't to sustain their faith?

I couldn't open any of those links, but any time I hear a story like those headlines it sickens me and I can't get it out of my head for days or weeks.

It makes me ever so uneasy thinking about how there's nothing I can do to help the helpless people being murdered in these cases without trial or any kind of justice. The rapist being let off without trial, the victim being brutally tortured and murdered is sickening and disgusting. IMO, one of the worst atrocities of recent years. I can't believe things like this still happen on a regular basis in modern times. Can you imagine how the poor girl must have felt throughout? It does make me proud to see my family members out in the Middle East fighting in the forces against certain leaders who are massacring their people, but the kind of injustice detailed above is still happening in other countries and we can do nothing about it.

Then you get to the cases like the recent Briton and Syrian who have been sentenced to death for selling a very small amount of marijuana. I hate drugs, would never condone or ever consider taking them, but sentencing these people to death is barbaric.

Seems crazy that in this country you can be arrested for spouting nonsense on Twitter (like the story this morning - who really gives a ****?) but in others you get let off when you rape someone and yet the victim is brutally tortured and murdered.

I must admit, I know nothing of the laws of these countries, the above is just how I feel when I read these stories.

[BB3Lions]

Originally Posted by mooperman

to be fair though, that is a rare occurrence from 1 utterly moronic judge, the things being discussed here are regular occurrences in Sharia Law....

In fact, if you take that particular case the outcome wouldve probably been much worse for that poor girl.

Is it?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...le&v=133247963

[mooperman]

Originally Posted by BB3Lions

Is it?

jusdge lets off peadophile - Google Search

still though, for each of those stories i bet there are a ton of sharia ones, and as i said, the outcome would be very different for the victims under sharia law.

[dan yeates]

Originally Posted by BB3Lions

I actually wish some parts of there law be implemented into UK law, we would have a safer environment.

Maybe, I agree that certainly some parts of our justice system is too relaxed here. But at least we have a proper and fair trial system where everyone gets a fair trial, soldiers aren't automatically deployed to kill people on a hunch etc.

I don't believe anyone should die unnecessarily. No one. But that's just me. I know lots of other people believe there should be a death penalty.

[SimonH]

What of course is even more horrific is that for every stoning case we see on the news imagine how many young girls put up with being raped because they know the consequences of coming forward.

In these cases Sharia law is a horrific control mechanism, making many women second class citizens, there to be abused.

[BB3Lions]

I agree 110% with everything everyone say's and it is a sad disgraceful "law" & it's been implemented by Neanderthal's who deserve to be hung drawn and quartered (hold on wasn't that William Wallace by the English)?

As a civilization they are say maybe 100 years behind us? I don't know, but maybe if democrazy ever get's into these places they can then hold a fully civilized criminal procedure's that protect the individual - especially a child or for that matter a woman of any age.

Not in our lifetime it will ever change.

[SimonH]

This thread a little off track , the idea being to examine how some theists will overlook the hideous elements of their religion to maintain their faith and what that means.

That said, any debate is good.

As far a the death penalty, no issue with it, but not for raped children and not by stoning.

Stoning is so retarded, barbaric, what's worse is these sickos stand around and cheer, usually men watching a women be tortured and murdered.

I tried to watch a video, had to stop it just showed me how backwards and despicable humans can be.

Again, amazing what some theists will accept as ok to protect their religious beliefs.

[SimonH]

Originally Posted by BB3Lions

And so is a 64+ year old peadophile being let off by a judge because the 9 year old flirted with him.

Were no better at times.

I thought that was disgusting as well but not even in the same ball park as a gang raped child being buried up to her neck then stoned by a jeering crowd.

This all misses the point though, individual incidents aside the issue is that Sharia law in the countries we are talking about and to a lesser extent in all places its is practised is a control mechanism of women.

A tiny amount of research search shows that rape and abuse mental and physical is common place because the girls are so terrified to complain with the elders blaming them and doling out their charming justice.

Horrifically bad decisions by uk judges make me want to throttle them but it's a far far far world from the systematic abuse and control Sharia law imposes on its victims.

[dan yeates]

I know this is dragging the thread off topic, but I find it interesting how humans in one part of the World can celebrate and rejoyce at the torture and murder of an innocent child, when people from another part of the World would find it horrific and sickening. What can this be attributed to? Why can, essentially the same species, be so different in their mindsets? In assuming what's right and wrong?

[Dave]

Originally Posted by dan yeates

I know this is dragging the thread off topic, but I find it interesting how humans in one part of the World can celebrate and rejoyce at the torture and murder of an innocent child, when people from another part of the World would find it horrific and sickening. What can this be attributed to? Why can, essentially the same species, be so different in their mindsets? In assuming what's right and wrong?

Culture.

[Curry Monster]

Originally Posted by dan yeates

I know this is dragging the thread off topic, but I find it interesting how humans in one part of the World can celebrate and rejoyce at the torture and murder of an innocent child, when people from another part of the World would find it horrific and sickening. What can this be attributed to? Why can, essentially the same species, be so different in their mindsets? In assuming what's right and wrong?

Because they are brainwashed from day one... If god wills it - then its fine with them - In the middle east this is used alot...

You want to see the way they drive in Saudi Arabia - flat out everywhere without a seatbelt ...and if they die today then god willed it...

[vinny41]

On the postive side
Saudi Arabia applies the death penalty for a wide range of offences, including rape, murder, apostasy, armed robbery and drug trafficking

if someone breaks into your home you don't need to think about what is reasonable force and will i be arrested or sued if i use more than reasonable force.
no you just shoot them with your ak47 and it doesn't matter if you use more than 1 bullet because they shouldn't have broken in to your house

if some of these laws were applied in the uk it would result in
A) smaller prison population
B) Higher unemployment for the fat cat lawyers that know how to play the system

[BB3Lions]

Originally Posted by SimonH

I thought that was disgusting as well but not even in the same ball park as a gang raped child being buried up to her neck then stoned by a jeering crowd.

Horrifically bad decisions by uk judges make me want to throttle them but it's a far far far world from the systematic abuse and control Sharia law imposes on its victims.

What about 40+ men & women grooming children for the sex trade & the majority of them getting away with it completely?


Google Rochdale/Heywood pedophile ring.

[liamt]

Originally Posted by vinny41

On the postive side
Saudi Arabia applies the death penalty for a wide range of offences, including rape, murder, apostasy, armed robbery and drug trafficking

if someone breaks into your home you don't need to think about what is reasonable force and will i be arrested or sued if i use more than reasonable force.
no you just shoot them with your ak47 and it doesn't matter if you use more than 1 bullet because they shouldn't have broken in to your house

if some of these laws were applied in the uk it would result in
A) smaller prison population
B) Higher unemployment for the fat cat lawyers that know how to play the system

the problem is that we cant always be 100% positive that people are guilty. how many overturned convictions have we seen where the person might have died? then there is the police falsifying evidence and lying (cant remember the recent case name). there have also been numerous cases of women crying rape after consentual sex or sometimes the man wasnt even near.

until we can 100% get rid of this then the death sentence really cant be used in a blanket manner. maybe for things like mass shootings where there are loads of witnesses?

[dan yeates]

Originally Posted by liamt

the problem is that we cant always be 100% positive that people are guilty. how many overturned convictions have we seen where the person might have died? then there is the police falsifying evidence and lying (cant remember the recent case name). there have also been numerous cases of women crying rape after consentual sex or sometimes the man wasnt even near.

until we can 100% get rid of this then the death sentence really cant be used in a blanket manner. maybe for things like mass shootings where there are loads of witnesses?

And what gives anyone the right to kill another person, no matter what they've done. Everyone has the right to live IMO.

I am pleased I live in a safe country with a civilised and fair justice system.

Although I agree our prisons are overcrowded and full of people sat wasting everyone's time, costing us money. They should be put to some use, not killed.

[Toko Black]

Originally Posted by BB3Lions

What about 40+ men & women grooming children for the sex trade & the majority of them getting away with it completely?


Google Rochdale/Heywood pedophile ring.

Both are horrific.
Both are the molestation of children that we find abhorant.

One however then results in the state sponsored ritual and horrifically violent execution of the VICTIM.

[liamt]

Originally Posted by dan yeates

And what gives anyone the right to kill another person, no matter what they've done. Everyone has the right to live IMO.

I am pleased I live in a safe country with a civilised and fair justice system.

Although I agree our prisons are overcrowded and full of people sat wasting everyone's time, costing us money. They should be put to some use, not killed.

so, if you kill someone its ok to come out and then kill again?

i used to know a scouse guy. killed someone. got out and then killed 2 people within a week for some crack. would you suggest he is allowed out again.

some people are just nasty pieces of work. what about the guy who recently killed the indian student over here? laughing in court.... you dont think after 20 years he will still be a psycho?

also, a lot of prisoners work. almost all prison clothing is made by convicts as is all the cleaning and kitchen work. some will also do work for external companies. of course this removes jobs from the rest of us.

[vinny41]

Originally Posted by liamt

the problem is that we cant always be 100% positive that people are guilty. how many overturned convictions have we seen where the person might have died? then there is the police falsifying evidence and lying (cant remember the recent case name). there have also been numerous cases of women crying rape after consentual sex or sometimes the man wasnt even near.

until we can 100% get rid of this then the death sentence really cant be used in a blanket manner. maybe for things like mass shootings where there are loads of witnesses?

for police falsifying evidence and lying or women crying rape would be interesting to find out would then do this if in the event of being caught they would receive the same punishment as the person that they fitted up

[vinny41]

Originally Posted by dan yeates

And what gives anyone the right to kill another person, no matter what they've done. Everyone has the right to live IMO.

I am pleased I live in a safe country with a civilised and fair justice system.

Although I agree our prisons are overcrowded and full of people sat wasting everyone's time, costing us money. They should be put to some use, not killed.

i assume that you don't live in the uk
according to moj figures approx 15,000 lifers/IPP are currently in prison

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/...pp-figures.pdf

[logiciel]

Originally Posted by Trollslayer

Banning gay marrige because of the bible?
Banning women from becoming bishops?

That post started off well but slipped up badly with those two points.
Not having gay marriage is because it's nonsense, and because most gays are against it.

Originally Posted by BB3Lions

Catholicism where its illegal to have an abortion if you've been raped

That's totally incorrect.
And they don't have laws at all.

[SimonH]

Originally Posted by BB3Lions

What about 40+ men & women grooming children for the sex trade & the majority of them getting away with it completely?


Google Rochdale/Heywood pedophile ring.

It's sick, but you're ignoring the pertinent points of this discussion in favour of seemingly trying to find something a sick as a judge sentencing a gang raped child to death by stoning. Not sure you seem to enable to grasp the inherent difference between the positions as opposed to the crimes.

Youre point is taken that there are annoyning calls made by judges in the .uK, but there's a completly different culture at work here with Sharia law,that subjugates women and ensures second class status for them in some countries whilst then executing and torturing the victim within their
Legal framework.

Hopefully youre now done with the " what about this one " focus. It's not they key point at hand.

[SimonH]

Originally Posted by Toko Black

Both are horrific.
Both are the molestation of children that we find abhorant.

One however then results in the state sponsored ritual and horrifically violent execution of the VICTIM.

Gawd this, put succinctly, thx. I really need better language skills

[Curry Monster]

I see your friend from the other locked thread has not posted on here...

[liamt]

Originally Posted by logiciel

That post started off well but slipped up badly with those two points.
Not having gay marriage is because it's nonsense, and because most gays are against it.

That's totally incorrect.
And they don't have laws at all.

why is gay marriage nonsense? or do you mean its stupid for gay people to want marriage in church because of the hypocrisy? why follow a religion that doesnt believe in you?!?! seems daft to me.

are plenty against it though? you mean 75%?

[axidy10]

First things first, none of you guys have gone to a university or similar institute to study sharia, all of what you are saying is what you hear on the news.
Sharia means law. To refer to it as Sharia law is like saying law law, Sharia is basically to do with formulating laws based on Quran as the constitution. Sharia can roughly be divided into two parts, the first part constitute all the specific Injunctions found in the Quran (undisputed, infallible word of god) and cannot be revised beyond the inherent limits of these Quranic injunction and these limits have more to do with their implementations than the law itself. The second part must be restricted to laws legislated through a system of direct democracy and must conform to the broader framework of the Quran, these laws are subject to review by the Ummah (people) as opposed to closed review process controlled by religious cabals. Alongside this, I would argue that Sharia law has a judiciary system which accounts the people for there actions and also guarantees justice for all the people in society regardless colour, gender, or race. Now some of the statements you have made in you're thread is completely baseless and has been formulated by people who are feed up with the draconian system of capitalism. You're judiciary system is complete joke, made up of high profile judges who represent the rich class in society and make a mockery out of the poor and the helpless. Take for instance, domestic and rape, which you have not been able to address.

First, let me clear up the misconceptions. Stoning is not explicitly mentioned in the Quran, however capital punishment most certainly is part of sharia.
The uniqueness of sharia is that it deals with the causes of a particular crime rather than the symptoms/consequences. So for instance rather than tackling drink driving, the drinking is banned from the start so as to avoid the crime being committed in the first place, once we understand the methodology behind sharia we understand what its all about. To contrast, the Legal code in Britain allows peadophiles to get away with molestering children and deals with them after the crime/damage has been committed!!!
The capital punishment is put in place so as to act as a deterrent, people do not commit the crime out of fear of the consequences, the success of such a system is only judged by the crime rates, and behold the stats show that the crime rates are much much lower.
It would be useless for me to give a statement without the facts so here are the facts regarding rape,
#1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people
#2 Seychelles: 0.788294 per 1,000 people
#3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people
#4 Montserrat: 0.749384 per 1,000 people
#5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
#63 Yemen: 0.0038597 per 1,000 people
#64 Azerbaijan: 0.00379171 per 1,000 people
#65 Saudi Arabia: 0.00329321 per 1,000 people

(for updated stats : Rapes (per capita) statistics - countries compared - Crime data on NationMaster)

Not to mention the fact that crime rates across the board are much lower simply due to the methodology of tackling the crime in that the cause is targeted and the consequences act as a deterrent.
As for social cohesion, Sharia was the first law passed which did not discriminate against any ethnicity, or religion. This brings me onto social mobility and economics. As we all know the capitalist banking system promotes an ever growing wealth gap between the rich and the poor. In Islam the gold standard is adopted whereby all paper currency is backed by gold. This in turn reduces inflation to a bare minimum;
Heres some economic facts, the ottoman empire had something like 11% inflation in all of its 600 odd year history (off the top of my head) this was mainly determined by the levels of gold and silver available. This combined with the fact that it is an obligation upon Muslims to give 2.5% of their surplus income to charity (in an Islamic state given to the bayt-al-maal ‘the state treasury’ (the worlds first benefits system)). This also means that hoarding is minimised as the hoarder is losing 2.5% annually and the wealth gap is reduced this increasing social cohesion.
If land remains uncultivated for 3 years it is seized by the state in order to utilise it for common interests. There is low taxation on new business’ to promote enterprise: all of these are economic benefits which the west could benefit from to break free from the shackles of debt to the bankers.
Unfortunately however Muslim countries have abandoned their true law and adopted fiat currency thus reducing them to debt slaves; neither do they implement these laws.
It is a shame that most muslim countries do not in fact implement these laws sent down in the quran and sunnah (prophetic tradition) and rather they opt for failing ideologies
As for the cases where you hear of unjustified stoning’s to death, islam does not advocate these, firstly you must read up what is actually justified and why so many modern day politicians have said that sharia is by far the most just judiciary system (look up the german politicians) , in the cases of these stonings it is usually uneducated people living in stateless societies who decide they know best and carry out atrocities which have nothing to do with true sharia.
another thing to point out is that the so called countries which run sharia law do not in fact run true sharia law, they pick and choose fragments, no country has run true sharia under an Islamic state for at least 100 years!

[Curry Monster]

???? let me get this straight you are trying to justify your sharia law because rape is at such a low level in Saudi arabia? - Surely the people suffering the rape do not report it because THEY will be stoned!!!

Give it up - your not convincing anyone...