[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by balidey

I actually disagree with this.
I honestly think a holiday is a necessity.
The type and duration may make some peoples holidays seem like a luxury, but for me, a couple of days away camping with my kids is what I call a holiday and I consider that a basic necessity of my life.
Other people would say 2 weeks in Florida is a holiday, and I suppose I would have to say that is a luxury. Makes me sound like I have double standards I know.

Why can't you afford to camp in school holidays? there are loads of sites you can go to that don't have a massive seasonal hike. (I mentioned this earlier, perhaps you missed it )

[Steven]

Feeling you need something and actually needing something are two different things. No matter how stressed or overcooked your life gets, you cannot begin to claim a holiday whether domestic or abroad is in the same bracket as food on the table and paying the bills. Plenty of people do not go abroad annually. Are people actually that middle class on AVF now

[balidey]

IG: We 'can' afford it.
Like I 'can' afford a £40,000 car but I don't spend that much money on one. I'm not stupid
Same with holidays.
We have done Centre Parcs during school holidays. Bloody expensive, very crowded.
We have also done camping holidays during school term time (usually at very start or very end).
Given the choice, and I think this is what this whole thread is about, CHOICE, then we would choose to have a cheap camping holiday, made even cheaper, and less busy by going just a week or two either side of the premium cost weeks.

[imightbewrong]

Originally Posted by ichikiriyama

Just out of interest, how old are your kids and where are you going?

We went away last year - eldest was four - went on a week with the extended family to a holiday farm. The school said no - we went anyway. Funnily enough we didn't explain to the four year old that we were breaking the rules

[imightbewrong]

Originally Posted by dejongj

PS. What school do your children go to imightbewrong that they watch cartoon there? Then again it would still be better than ours, as my daughters standard responses are to what they did in school is nothing According to them they don't do anything...

Probably the best state school in town

I remember watching Misery and Robocop () at school as wind-down time-fillers towards the end of the year.

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by dejongj

. Heck just look at a site like holiday lettings or owners direct and you can see it. ...

For where we were looking, 'owners direct' rental prices didn't actually vary much, or at all, between the last week of term or the first week of school holidays.
It was the flight prices that went (ahem) sky high.
This is based on Scottish school holiday dates though, maybe they increase for English dates.

[imightbewrong]

Originally Posted by balidey

Given the choice, and I think this is what this whole thread is about, CHOICE, then we would choose to have a cheap camping holiday, made even cheaper, and less busy by going just a week or two either side of the premium cost weeks.

I think what IG is saying is that for example the difference in price can be as little as £20, and probably most people wouldn't take their child out of school for the sake of £20. If it was to make the holiday better - e.g. less crowded as you suggest -then that's a different ball game.

[balidey]

OK, a holiday is going to be £20 cheaper, but the schools can (as suggested earlier in thread) impose a £50 fee per parent per pupil.
Yes, I have already stated its not just about the money, its also about the convenience of a quieter holiday. But its a fact, some people take kids out of school time, some don't. Its been like that since for ever. But now there is a risk of a fine. A fine that could literally be several times the cost of my entire holiday.

Also to reiterate, I take some holidays during term time, some out of term. I don't take the 'p' like some people. And my kids have probably spent more time off school due to genuine serious health issues than the odd holiday.

[imightbewrong]

> OK, a holiday is going to be £20 cheaper, but the schools can (as suggested earlier in thread) impose a £50 fee per parent per pupil.

Which makes going out of term time... £30 more expensive

[balidey]

Yes, exactly.
I'm not disagreeing here.
Thats what this whole thread is about.
You used to be able to choose to go at a cheaper time of year.
Now you could go at a cheaper time of year yet get fined more than the difference.
Ergo you have lost your choice.

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by balidey

Yes, exactly.
I'm not disagreeing here.
Thats what this whole thread is about.
You used to be able to choose to go at a cheaper time of year.
Now you could go at a cheaper time of year yet get fined more than the difference.
Ergo you have lost your choice.

In most instances, the term time cost saving is pretty dramatic.
If the paltry and cynical fines are really going to quash any saving, it must be unusual.
I use the word cynical because I feel it's a case of them knowing some will do it, so why not make a few bob.
If they really wanted to stop it, make the fines horrendous!
Fine me £200 a child and I won't even consider it.
Fine me £50 a child and I will consider it.

[imightbewrong]

Originally Posted by balidey

Ergo you have lost your choice.

You've lost your choice if it is only about cost.

If it is about having a better quality holiday, then your choice is still there.

For instance we went to Legoland this weekend - it was ok, but the queues were massive - standing about in the sun for 30-60 minutes is a long time with three under-fives). You can buy a queue-hopping thing, but they are very expensive (£70 *per person*!!! - on top of the ticket!!!) and of limited use - you have to plan your rides in advance, and it basically just lets you join a shorter queue at a certain time.

So next time, we might take the eldest out for a day (an easy sickie ) and have the run of the place. Even if we get fined (mega unlikely - unless the eldest rats us out) £50x1 is a lot more preferable than £70x4

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by balidey

We can only really afford to take our kids on holiday during term time. A few weeks later or earlier and we simply can't afford to do it. We are not extravegent, we do camping holidays to save money.

Originally Posted by balidey

IG: We 'can' afford it.
Like I 'can' afford a £40,000 car but I don't spend that much money on one. I'm not stupid

its not just about the money, its also about the convenience of a quieter holiday.

Hmm...

Maybe you shouldn't have pretended you were so poor you had to take the kids on holiday in term time then

I can relate to the convenience of a quieter holiday, but I wouldn't take my children out of school to get it.

[DaveBhoy]

Is this idea of schools imposing fines an English thing ? Never came across it in Scotland, and I really can't see how they'd enforce it. Where does an educational body get the powers to issue statutory fines ??

[imightbewrong]

Originally Posted by DaveBhoy

Is this idea of schools imposing fines an English thing ? Never came across it in Scotland, and I really can't see how they'd enforce it. Where does an educational body get the powers to issue statutory fines ??

In england the 'education body' is the council.

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by DaveBhoy

Is this idea of schools imposing fines an English thing ? Never came across it in Scotland, and I really can't see how they'd enforce it. Where does an educational body get the powers to issue statutory fines ??

Fines happen in Scotland too.
How they enforce it, no idea.

[indianwells]

Originally Posted by John F

It has nothing to do with demand. I have not booked a holiday through a travel agent for the last 12 years. I always book the flights, hotel and transfers separately. One year 18 of us went cost saved compared to the travel agent, a shade over £5K. My friend's who owns the hotel was happy as he got more from us than they got from the tour company. I asked the travel agent to price match, guess what? they could not get near the price.

I would beg to differ. I have run a holiday park for the last 21 years and demand is most definitely what determines price. Maybe not in your particular scenario but for the vast majority of companies it is. And we are not all "thieving bastards" as you so eloquently label us.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by balidey

Given the choice, and I think this is what this whole thread is about, CHOICE, then we would choose to have a cheap camping holiday, made even cheaper, and less busy by going just a week or two either side of the premium cost weeks.

How about petitioning the schools to change the end of term to bring it forward by a week or two so that we can all take advantage of the cheaper prices

[ichikiriyama]

Originally Posted by Wore Nowt

How about petitioning the schools to change the end of term to bring it forward by a week or two so that we can all take advantage of the cheaper prices

Then we can lobby to change the rules so we can just send our kids to school when ever we feel like it. If it doesn't suit our lives, they can just stay off!

[balidey]

Originally Posted by IronGiant

Hmm...

Maybe you shouldn't have pretended you were so poor you had to take the kids on holiday in term time then

touche

Its not about pretending to be poor. And actualy I can't afford a £40,000 car. It was just a flipant example.
Lets use an AV analogy... If I buy a £1000 amp from a store, or I buy the same item online for £500. Does chosing the cheap one make me out as being poor? But if the online one suddenly comes with a £600 packaging charge it takes away the choice and makes your decision about which one to buy.
But as I keep saying, its NOT just about the money, it is about choice, convenience etc. And yet again I'll say, I have only done it a few times out of our total number of holidays, but those few times has made us realise that it IS better and cheaper to go in term time.

[DaveBhoy]

Originally Posted by FZR400RRSP

Fines happen in Scotland too.
How they enforce it, no idea.

They do ??
Not doubting you, as I said we don't get the chance to do this, but certainly never had anything from our kids schools to indicate they had this option. Not in the school handbook, either.

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by Wore Nowt

How about petitioning the schools to change the end of term to bring it forward by a week or two so that we can all take advantage of the cheaper prices

Perhaps for one year, but if the booking are up the prices will increase for those two weeks as well

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by balidey

But as I keep saying, its NOT just about the money, it is about choice, convenience etc. And yet again I'll say, I have only done it a few times out of our total number of holidays, but those few times has made us realise that it IS better and cheaper to go in term time.

If we all did it there would be absolute chaos in school.

It's fairly obvious that taking your holiday outside of the prescribed times will be saving you money just as working for cash in hand and not declaring it will also save you cash but the lifestyles of those that do it are supported by those that don't in both cases

[Dancook]

Originally Posted by RottenFox

Seriously, if you knew there was a chance you would be rejected for the kids to have "leave", why not just phone up and give an illness as a reason, for a week off, say chickenpox, or some sort of bug, etc....would have saved a lot of hassle, even get another family member to phone up and report their "illness".

You go on holiday, everyones happy, school have them marked as ill.

two kids off school with chickenpox for a week to come back with nice tans heh (and maybe a story to tell..)

[ichikiriyama]

Originally Posted by Wore Nowt

If we all did it there would be absolute chaos in school.

It's fairly obvious that taking your holiday outside of the prescribed times will be saving you money just as working for cash in hand and not declaring it will also save you cash but the lifestyles of those that do it are supported by those that don't in both cases

A very good point.

[richard plumb]

Originally Posted by neilios

Its a bloody holiday for gods sake,the ruling is meant to combat truancy ,to apply it to a holiday is just pedantry in the extreme.
I used to take ella on hols when it suited us not the bloody school,a brief holiday does not effect their education,family comes first in my house..

recently I've been annoyed at the school doing sod all during the last week of term (or even longer), so whats the point of adhering to the letter of the law so much? If they were getting decent lessons right up to the end of term I'd be much happier about keeping them in school.

[neilios]

Originally Posted by Wore Nowt

If we all did it there would be absolute chaos in school.

I dont seem to remember any chaos in the education system before this hardline approach was taken by the schools and authorities,wether this is detrimental to the childs education is debatable at best..

[Kebabhead]

Originally Posted by neilios

Iwether this is detrimental to the childs education is debatable at best..

How many days off in a year do kids have because of teacher training days

[nheather]

How many days off in a year do kids have because of teacher training days

4 or 5 - usually 4 in my experience.

Cheers,

Nigel

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by Kebabhead

How many days off in a year do kids have because of teacher training days

Zero at my daughters school.