[Stuart Wright]

Our kids had attendance reports at the end of each term. Number of term days :xxx. Number of days present : xxx. Number of days absent : xxx. Do yours have a similar report?
This can be important in primary school year 6 if there is a lot of competition for your chosen secondary school and the school's decision on who to take comes down to the attendance record. Not sure if it works this way in schools round yours, but it could be a factor. Just something else to throw into the mix.

[Ian J]

A few years ago when my son was in primary school I booked the flights etc for an Easter holiday using the same dates as the previous year completely forgetting that Easter is a moveable feast.

One of the weeks fell within the school holiday but the other didn't. Luckily the school were quite good about it and just marked it down as Authorised Absence

[nheather]

@OP

Have you discussed this with the school. My experience with schools is that they often send out heavy handed communications that I find offensive because they don't apply to me. But I have to simmer down and realise that they aren't permitted to single out groups of what they believe to be troublesome parents so have to send out to everyone in the hope that the intended targets get the message. Most likely, though, the law-abiding parents take offence and the real attendees couldn't give a toss.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the letter you have received is a standard letter stating what might happen. Problem is a parent whose child is regularly absent and a parent asking for a one-off holiday will get the same letter.

I would be very surprised if a penalty was issued against a child\parents with good attendance for a one-off holiday where the parents have mitigating circumstances. Even if it were, I reckon it would get quashed at appeal. The pentalty is intended for serious and repeated non-attendance, not one-offs.

All your letter will acheive is aminosity and make the school less likely to help you out.

Go to the school, and expalin calmly. Point out that attendance is normally excellent and you have always taken holidays during the school breaks in the past. However, in this situation, your partners holidays have been fixed by her employer and you have little choice. You have tried pick a time that will have the least impact, away from exams and revision etc.

It is always best to work with schools. I've found teaching staff are a very thin-skinned and precious lot and don't take criticism well even when it is well founded and constructive. So it is best to bite your tongue and be very humble with them.

On a few occasions I have taken my children out of school. Yes I have been shown the possibility of penalties but I have never been given any - sometimes the leave has been marked as authorised and sometimes unauthorised - there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason but essentially it doesn't really matter if you aren't intending to make it a regular occurence.

Cheers,

Nigel

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by Stuart Wright

Our kids had attendance reports at the end of each term. Number of term days :xxx. Number of days present : xxx. Number of days absent : xxx. Do yours have a similar report?
This can be important in primary school year 6 if there is a lot of competition for your chosen secondary school and the school's decision on who to take comes down to the attendance record. Not sure if it works this way in schools round yours, but it could be a factor. Just something else to throw into the mix.

A very good point, we unfortunately had to go through a school place appeals process and the attendance records do get included with it. Not as a main consideration but nevertheless. We didn't get the place until 1.5 years later of being on the continued interest list.

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by nheather

@OP

Have you discussed this with the school. My experience with schools is that they often send out heavy handed communications that I find offensive because they don't apply to me. But I have to simmer down and realise that they aren't permitted to single out groups of what they believe to be troublesome parents so have to send out to everyone in the hope that the intended targets get the message. Most likely, though, the law-abiding parents take offence and the real attendees couldn't give a toss.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the letter you have received is a standard letter stating what might happen. Problem is a parent whose child is regularly absent and a parent asking for a one-off holiday will get the same letter.

I would be very surprised if a penalty was issued against a child\parents with good attendance for a one-off holiday where the parents have mitigating circumstances. Even if it were, I reckon it would get quashed at appeal. The pentalty is intended for serious and repeated non-attendance, not one-offs.

All your letter will acheive is aminosity and make the school less likely to help you out.

Go to the school, and expalin calmly. Point out that attendance is normally excellent and you have always taken holidays during the school breaks in the past. However, in this situation, your partners holidays have been fixed by her employer and you have little choice. You have tried pick a time that will have the least impact, away from exams and revision etc.

It is always best to work with schools. I've found teaching staff are a very thin-skinned and precious lot and don't take criticism well even when it is well founded and constructive. So it is best to bite your tongue and be very humble with them.

On a few occasions I have taken my children out of school. Yes I have been shown the possibility of penalties but I have never been given any - sometimes the leave has been marked as authorised and sometimes unauthorised - there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason but essentially it doesn't really matter if you aren't intending to make it a regular occurence.

Cheers,

Nigel

I think, without going back and checking, that the OP said he had spoken to the head twice?

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by balidey

When I put 'these people' I was actually refering to myself.
We can only really afford to take our kids on holiday during term time. A few weeks later or earlier and we simply can't afford to do it. We are not extravegent, we do camping holidays to save money.

I'm not sure I follow this logic we go camping and it's not hard to find sites where the difference between going in term time and school holidays is less than £20 for a two week holiday. The site we're going to this year doesn't even have a high and low season so it makes no difference when you go.

[Sad099]

I think as someone already pointed out - the letter was just a standard letter that is sent to everyone.

However I do think that parents shouldn't really take their kids out of school during term time. for holidays.

All parents are in similar situations - can you imagine if all parents just decided randomly to take their kids out of school for holidays or because they felt like it for a few days etc. (this is not directly aimed at anyone on this thread - just my thoughts)

How would the school manage - so they have these rules in place to avoid these situations - to standardize , this way they can level the playing field in terms of education.

They then blanket apply the rules to all to avoid having to constantly sit there managing attendance - teachers have a hard enough job as it is without having to have the additional burden of paperwork / admin for holidays.

I can understand that during the last 2 weeks the kids may not do much at school in terms of learning - but should parents be the judge of that or should that decision be left to the teachers who are considered the experts.

What if a parents decides that during February they need a break and that the English and maths lessons aren't important enough to warrant keeping the kids in school - where does it then stop - a crude example but hopefully you get my meaning.

Rules are in place for a reason - why do people feel its OK to break the rules and that their reason justifies it.
Its the same for all rules really - if they get broken then people need to accept the consequences if they are punished.

Why do people assume that they will be given the time off and then when its rejected get annoyed.
Why bother asking for permission if they have no intention of honouring the decision just beacuse its not the decison they wanted ?

Having said that I do sympathize with the OP - I've been in that situation before, I did deal with it differently though as I took my son without my wife , not ideal but it was either that or nobody went.

I've also been in the situation where I've had to pay far more for a holiday during school holidays (and still am) - it sucks but its the same for all parents really and goes with the territory of having children.
Its a shame the govt or regulator/body don't don't do something about the price hiking antics of holiday companies during school holidays - its effectively holding people to ransom - but thats capitalism for you I guess.

Sorry if its a little off topic
Just to reiterate this is not aimed at the op or anyone in particular - just my thoughts

[imightbewrong]

Its a shame the govt or some don't don't do something about the price hiking antics of holiday companies during school holidays

No doubt they would prefer to charge high-season prices all year 'round than low season prices. The very basics of supply and demand er demand that prices go up when demand goes through the roof.

[nheather]

I do agree that parents shouldn't take their children out of school just to save money.

But there are other reasons. Parents who find they aren't able to take holidays during the school break because of work restrictions.

Or in my example we went to Australia and New Zealand to see relatives. To match with the Australian school holidays so that my children could see their cousins we had to go over Christmas. And realistically we needed a little more than two weeks so we asked to take a week at the end of term.

We explained the reasons and both schools were understanding and gave authorised leave.

As for companies charging more during school holidays - not nice but understandable and not a lot the government can do about it - especially as much of the price hike is by foreign companies.

Cheers,

Nigel

[Sad099]

I agree - appreciate sometimes there are reason that are exceptions to the norm.
In your case you requested the time off and it was given - would it have made a difference if you asked and it was rejected ?

If it was rejected and you went anyway - could I ask why you then would bother to ask in the first place if you were going to ignore the decision ?

Originally Posted by nheather

I do agree that parents shouldn't take their children out of school just to save money.

But there are other reasons. Parents who find they aren't able to take holidays during the school break because of work restrictions.

Or in my example we went to Australia and New Zealand to see relatives. To match with the Australian school holidays so that my children could see their cousins we had to go over Christmas. And realistically we needed a little more than two weeks so we asked to take a week at the end of term.

We explained the reasons and both schools were understanding and gave authorised leave.

As for companies charging more during school holidays - not nice but understandable and not a lot the government can do about it - especially as much of the price hike is by foreign companies.

Cheers,

Nigel

[nheather]

Yes we probably would have gone anyway.

I asked first because I feel it is most important to maintain a good relationship with your children's teachers.

So if I ask and it gets accepted then brilliant.

If I just did it without asking first then it would hurt the relationship.

If I asked and it got rejected then I would have to deal with that.


By my opinion is that it is best to ask nicely and well reasoned first.

Cheers,

Nigel

[imightbewrong]

That is our view when we 'asked' (aka informed). If they say yes, we go with an unblemished record. If they say no, we go and suffer the consequences. Ours was for a large family gathering/holiday (c. 15 people) which was very difficult to cater for in a school holiday week. Our eldest was the only child of school age, and she didn't even have techinally have to have started school at that point - it wasn't a requirement for another couple of terms (due to where her birthday falls in the school year).

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by imightbewrong

That is our view when we 'asked' (aka informed).

There was no 'asking' from us.
We just told them, albeit in a very nice manner explaining we'd rather avoid it if possible and not a decision we took lightly blablabla
And although I said earlier we'd "probably" do it again next year, 'may' would have been a better way of putting it.

[signs]

If i take my kids out of school i just tell the school its an educational trip to Greece

[daniel_owen_uk]

Sometimes these forms are there to deter the urine extractors.

We are taking the kids away next month, eldest joined a new school this year and their form states blankly "Requests of more than 7 days will not be approved", we need 8. The wife put a request in for 7 then called and said "err we made a mistake and it's actually 8", the school said "no problem, you can have up to 10, we just put that on the letter".

I would suggest speaking to them before bringing out the big guns.

[Ian J]

I'm sure that teachers would also like to take advantage of cheaper holidays in term time too and I wonder what would happen if they also started doing the same thing and the parents received a letter saying that there wouldn't be any geography for the next two weeks as the teacher was on holiday

[John F]

Originally Posted by imightbewrong

No doubt they would prefer to charge high-season prices all year 'round than low season prices. The very basics of supply and demand er demand that prices go up when demand goes through the roof.

Do prices go up because of demand or because the thieving bastards that are travel companies can put the cost up as they know people will pay it if they want a holiday? I know 3 hoteliers in two different countries who get exactly the same from the tour companies whether the room is booked for April (low season) or August (high season). This is rife in the travel industry but the hoteliers cannot do a thing about it as the travel companies will just go to another hotel who will accept the terms.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by John F

I know 3 hoteliers in two different countries who get exactly the same from the tour companies whether the room is booked for April (low season) or August (high season).

A sample of three is hardly conclusive. Also Easter is normally in April so do not recognise this "low season" label you attach to it, that's probably why the price is the same.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Steven

A sample of three is hardly conclusive. Also Easter is normally in April so do not recognise this "low season" label you attach to it, that's probably why the price is the same.

I did not say it was conclusive, there is evidence of it been a lot more widespread. Also please check the price's before and after Easter to see the price difference. April is classed as low season.

[imightbewrong]

Originally Posted by John F

Do prices go up because of demand or because the thieving bastards that are travel companies can put the cost up as they know people will pay it if they want a holiday?

Both of those are demand.

Put it this way - if you ran a hotel (or whatever) and in one part of the year you are turning people away at £100 a night, and in another part you can only attract a few guests, what do you do? If you could charge £200 at peak and you still filled your hotel, would you?

It's the same with everything - flights, restaurants, train tickets, even shopping - some DIY stores give you a discount for shopping on an unpopular day, to even out the trade.

[John F]

Originally Posted by imightbewrong

Both of those are demand.

Put it this way - if you ran a hotel (or whatever) and in one part of the year you are turning people away at £100 a night, and in another part you can only attract a few guests, what do you do? If you could charge £200 at peak and you still filled your hotel, would you?

It's the same with everything - flights, restaurants, train tickets, even shopping - some DIY stores give you a discount for shopping on an unpopular day, to even out the trade.

It has nothing to do with demand. I have not booked a holiday through a travel agent for the last 12 years. I always book the flights, hotel and transfers separately. One year 18 of us went cost saved compared to the travel agent, a shade over £5K. My friend's who owns the hotel was happy as he got more from us than they got from the tour company. I asked the travel agent to price match, guess what? they could not get near the price.

[imightbewrong]

So does this friend charge more in peak season?

[ichikiriyama]

Am I the only one on here who disagrees with taking kids out of school for a family holiday?

Agreed that the kids don't do much toward the end of term but is that the point? Rules are there for a reason - discipline. You start breaking the rules and so will your kids.

We skipped about 3 years of holidays because we couldn't get the leave or afford to go away during the summer holiday. That's family life with kids. Like someone already said, holidays are a luxury not a necessity.

Hope that doesn't seem too rude but it's a topic I feel pretty strongly about.

Anyway there you go.

[John F]

Originally Posted by imightbewrong

So does this friend charge more in peak season?

No. They use to. One price for April, May, September and October and one for June, July and August. Unlike tour companies who have low, mid and high seasons.

[imightbewrong]

> Agreed that the kids don't do much toward the end of term but is that the point? Rules are there for a reason - discipline. You start breaking the rules and so will your kids.

For one thing the kids won't necessarily see it as breaking the rules - although if you tell them it is they will of course.

Taking a young child out of school for a week to see another country instead of watching peppa pig or something is all upside if you ask me. In which scenario will they learn more? Isn't learning the point?

[imightbewrong]

Originally Posted by John F

No.

Interesting. We've stayed in loads of holiday farms / cottages and they all have different seasons - sometimes 3x the price or more between bottom and top. And rightly so in my view.

[ichikiriyama]

Originally Posted by imightbewrong

> Agreed that the kids don't do much toward the end of term but is that the point? Rules are there for a reason - discipline. You start breaking the rules and so will your kids.

For one thing the kids won't necessarily see it as breaking the rules - although if you tell them it is they will of course.

Taking a young child out of school for a week to see another country instead of watching peppa pig or something is all upside if you ask me. In which scenario will they learn more? Isn't learning the point?

Ah. Lying as well as breaking the rules!

Now I'm kidding

I've put my opinion forward and I won't be changing it.

Just out of interest, how old are your kids and where are you going?

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by imightbewrong

Interesting. We've stayed in loads of holiday farms / cottages and they all have different seasons - sometimes 3x the price or more between bottom and top. And rightly so in my view.

Me too, I've only once in my life booked a package holiday. Always went direct, the prices are just as seasonal. Heck just look at a site like holiday lettings or owners direct and you can see it. Or some of my favourite hotels, of course a hotel will charge differently based on their expected occupancy rate, they'd not be a good business if they didn't. Likewise they won't sell all their rooms to a tour operator (or perhaps they do), but it is guaranteed occupancy thus it comes at a lower price. There really is no big conspiracy behind it.

PS. What school do your children go to imightbewrong that they watch cartoon there? Then again it would still be better than ours, as my daughters standard responses are to what they did in school is nothing According to them they don't do anything...

[balidey]

Originally Posted by ichikiriyama

Like someone already said, holidays are a luxury not a necessity.

I actually disagree with this.
I honestly think a holiday is a necessity.
The type and duration may make some peoples holidays seem like a luxury, but for me, a couple of days away camping with my kids is what I call a holiday and I consider that a basic necessity of my life.
Other people would say 2 weeks in Florida is a holiday, and I suppose I would have to say that is a luxury. Makes me sound like I have double standards I know.

[DaveBhoy]

Originally Posted by balidey

I actually disagree with this.
I honestly think a holiday is a necessity.
The type and duration may make some peoples holidays seem like a luxury, but for me, a couple of days away camping with my kids is what I call a holiday and I consider that a basic necessity of my life.
Other people would say 2 weeks in Florida is a holiday, and I suppose I would have to say that is a luxury. Makes me sound like I have double standards I know.

I'd agree with this. A holiday is pretty much a necessity- but it doesn't need to be a fortnight in somewhere fancy, a long weekend away a few times a year doing something that isn't work or chores can be every bit as good.

Taking the kids out of school wasn't an option for us, as the other half is a teacher. Don't really see much harm in it, though, especially as the schools do seem to stop teaching a week early.