[jp_bl_68]

This April, all Year 11 children in a state funded school were brought together and had a visitor introduced to them as a scientist. He then spent the next one and a half hours presenting these sixteen year olds with a series of well polished Young Earth Creationist claims, described as scientific theory.



The visitor was Philip Bell, a full time Evangelical preacher from Creation Ministries International (CMI) who presents creationist views as scientific facts and denies evolution. He states on his website that his preferred method of evangelising is infiltrating at a grassroots level as he feels this has more successful conversions.

 CMI described the school visit on their web site as ‘ministry to school children’.

The parents knew nothing of this until after the event, when one, who happens to be a trained Geologist, and thus qualified to evaluate what had been said, wrote to the school to complain. 



The Chair of Governors replied that this was all part of the Religious Education (RE)curriculum and that she should not worry because they also invited a speaker ‘to present the case for evolutionism’ so that both sides were heard, both ‘scientists’ were given equal time and both talks were presented to the children as ‘a belief’.



These recent events at St Peter's Church of England School, Exeter, show creationists are now openly using RE classes and the school timetable to advance their claim to be offering a valid scientific alternative to established knowledge, even within the State school system.

CrISIS Petition:

Creationism is known, and officially acknowledged, to be contrary to scientific fact. We therefore demand that creationism should not be presented as a valid scientific position, nor creationist websites and resources be promoted, in publicly funded schools or in any youth activities run on publicly funded school premises.

Sorry for the copy and paste job but this petition was just brought to my attention and I thought a few of you might be interested.

[Trollslayer]

Signed with "To describe a Creationist as a scientist is at best a travesty, at worst deliberate deception.".

[Toko Black]

Philip Bell is a delusional barmpot* and shouldn't be let out of the house never mind near a classroom full of children

* he's a young earth creationist. That means he is adamant that the earth is less that 10,000 years old ..... and that the tsunami of evidence to the contrary is wrong.

[imightbewrong]

Dave Gorman has a run-in with this guy's american counter-part - I won't give him the service of naming him though, to bump up his google rank.

[imightbewrong]

Signed - what an absolute joke. At least they are 16-year olds so they should be at a decent age to take it and form an opinion rather than just take it as gospel (hopefully) - pun intended.

[Kyuss72]

Creationism, global warming, the ozone layer, eugenics, alchemists.... I guess it is part of the human condition!

[captainarchive]

We seem to be going backwards as a species, the space race has ended, supersonic passenger planes are no more and people still want to teach our kids mythology and fairy tales as fact.

[dc8900]

That is outrageous, I mean, I do believe in God and am a practising Muslim but even I recognise that Creationism should only be taught (if it has to) in a R.E. class and has no place in a Science class!

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by Kyuss72

Creationism, global warming, the ozone layer,

[simon ess]

I'd love to hear Michael Gove's view on this.

[Mr Incredible]

Michael Gove 'crystal clear' creationism is not science - Telegraph

[Foebane72]

(Must resist, must resist, AAAGH, I must not spout my vitriol of these idiots with their irresponsible actions... after all, I blow a blood vessel in my brain when some poor soul in my path innocently mixes up Astronomy with Astrology, so woe betide any Creationists that get in my path....! AAGH, must resist!!)

[Reepicheep]

The British Humanist Association is also campaigning against this:

Countering creationism

[krish]

Richard Dawkins celebrates a victory over creationists | Education | The Observer

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by dc8900

That is outrageous, I mean, I do believe in God and am a practising Muslim but even I recognise that Creationism should only be taught (if it has to) in a R.E. class and has no place in a Science class!

The Chair of Governors replied that this was all part of the Religious Education (RE)curriculum and that she should not worry because they also invited a speaker ‘to present the case for evolutionism’ so that both sides were heard, both ‘scientists’ were given equal time and both talks were presented to the children as ‘a belief’.



These recent events at St Peter's Church of England School, Exeter, show creationists are now openly using RE classes and the school timetable to advance their claim

I didn't think it was in a Science class, but even so the Creationist should not have been presented as a scientist.

[andyk]

Originally Posted by IronGiant

I didn't think it was in a Science class, but even so the Creationist should not have been presented as a scientist.

He shouldn't have been presented at all.

What next? An astrologer? A flat earther? Someone that claims to have been Cleopatra in a former life?

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by andyk

He shouldn't have been presented at all.

What next? An astrologer? A flat earther? Someone that claims to have been Cleopatra in a former life?

Just what should they teach in R.E. then?

Astronomy? Geophysics? Psychiatry?

[Trollslayer]

Signed - number 5151!

[travid]

Even as a Roman Catholic, I can never rember being taught that Creation was a fact, rather as a simple story that would lead, as you got older, to the most uptodate scientific theorys, of that time, to attempt
To to explain the beginnings of the universe etc

As a fact? Never.

[andyk]

Originally Posted by IronGiant

Just what should they teach in R.E. then?

Astronomy? Geophysics? Psychiatry?

To be honest I'd rather RE didn't exist. I can think of lots of other things that would be better use of teaching time.
Ethics (no need for invoking the supernatural though)
Economics (particularly household)
Marketing (and how not to be fooled)
Law (and its impact on the man in the street)
Etc.

[travid]

I think RE should be taught, not in a "born again" way, but in a subjective context.

After all, can we excluded millions of people's beliefs from education?

[Sparky83]

Originally Posted by travid

After all, can we excluded millions of people's beliefs from education?

Yes because they don't really cater for the non believer equally!

[Toko Black]

Originally Posted by IronGiant

Just what should they teach in R.E. then?

Astronomy? Geophysics? Psychiatry?

There is nothing wrong with teaching children about beliefs, just not teaching children to believe.
Personally I believe we should abolish R.E and restructure a new subject in it's place that discusses a fixed national syllabus where religious beliefs are all discussed equally as merely a part of a wider subject of ethics, morality and social behavior.

What Bell does is peddle belief like a cheap car salesman.

[travid]

Originally Posted by Sparky83

Yes because they don't really cater for the non believer equally!

Well, my daughter goes to an RC comp and she seems to know an awful lot about all of the major religions and its all done from an educational POV, rather than "who's the best".

I think that non believers can gain a great deal of insight and knowledge from this, without the attempted indoctrination, that some people seem to think goes on in some schools. Balence, whilst educating, is surely a good thing?

Here are the points of views of all, including Athiests, make your own mind up kids.

[Berties]

Well, my daughter goes to an RC comp and she seems to know an awful lot about all of the major religions and its all done from an educational POV, rather than "who's the best".

From mates experiences in RC school they were taught catholism was right, and no mention at all of the "heretics"

On my own we were taught them all but it was pretty short sillabus...not like a whole afternoon every week (or in mums experience several times a day) and whole day revolved in some way around RC, before breakfast till going to bed.

[Fozzybear]

"...and so we prove beyond doubt that God made the world from Adam's rib using pixie dust and unicorn tears. If there are any questions please hold them until the end, where you will burn in the fires of endless damnation."

[Berties]

Originally Posted by Fozzybear

"...and so we prove beyond doubt that God made the world from Adam's rib using pixie dust and unicorn tears. If there are any questions please hold them until the end, where you will burn in the fires of endless damnation."

Funny you should say that, mates exact experience too. You must believe this, no questions, no deviations.

[DOBLY]

When I was at school (in the mid-80's), we had a weekly lesson called "perspectives on life" instead of R.E. The previous year (age 11 or 12) we had R.E. which was a study of the religions of the world, whereas perspectives on life was broader - it was, on reflection, more to do with morals, life choices, society and what the consequences were to various decisions that you could make. Yes, it was a bit washy-washy, but was certainly preferable to being taught about different religions. I just don't remember it continuing for very long. Creationism was never part of the syllabus, thank @#$ !!

[Mr.D]

My children go to RC schools and were regularly introduced and given talks by people representative of other religions. They were even taken on field trips to synagogues and mosques and allowed to take part in services.

I'm fine with this and the whole creationism thing is mentioned merely in passing with no implication that its anything to do with science and no validation one way or the other.

In fact they are given explicit discussion topics in order to make up their own minds and even have the point made clear to them that the things depicted in the bible are not necessarily indicative of actual empirical fact but that the bible itself is an historic artifact that is representative of the framework of their faith with its own history of modification and development , not an inviolate explanation of the mechanical structure of the universe.

If someone tried to impress on my children that creationism is anything other than an overly rigid outdated interpretation of the bible I would very swiftly have their influence over my children ended.

( I would also point out creationism has absolutely nothing to do with issues of faith ; whether or not you actually have any belief in any religion. Something such as the specifics of creationism is not going to have any real bearing unless you are a fanatic and fanatics are not something rational people expose children to regardless of religion )

[Toko Black]

Originally Posted by Mr.D

( I would also point out creationism has absolutely nothing to do with issues of faith ; whether or not you actually have any belief in any religion. Something such as the specifics of creationism is not going to have any real bearing unless you are a fanatic and fanatics are not something rational people expose children to regardless of religion )

The problem is that some members of this forum are creationists and even young earth creationists. To often issues regarding belief and it's contrary to the evidence and reason nature is convienently ignored by people assuming that only extremists or fanatics hold those views and represent a very tiny fraction of the faithful. In doing so, it is allowing certain ideas and beliefs to gain strenght as has been shown by the number of faith and foundation schools pushing the agenda of creationism or specific beliefs that has finally been recognised as an issue highlighted by the threads topic.