[Foebane72]

This story has always horrified me:
BBC News - Family of man hanged in Bristol in 1821 seek burial

I've read several accounts on this, and the most disturbing thing I find about this is the surgeon, Smith, who wanted this boy's body after hanging so badly, and was determined to get him dissected, especially with his skin of "such wonderful complexion". He even denied Horwood's family the body!

What's more, it was Smith who operated on Balsom and trepanned her head to relieve the pressure on her brain caused by the thrown pebble, and that it got infected. So in a way, it was Smith who may have killed her. Horwood should've gone down for manslaughter instead.

What I find disgusting though is that whilst the skeleton may be given a dignified burial, part of Horwood is still covering a book in the Bristol Records office!!

Maybe they should rebind the book and put the tanned skin in with the skeleton. It's truly revolting that a surgeon could do this, although I've heard that this case is not unique.

[shodan]

I'm more amazed that anybody cares about this one way or another! I've read the BBC article and come to the conclusion that even if it was one of my own ancestors I still wouldn't care one way or another! I mean its not as if there is anyone alive who remembers him is it. And what about the family / descendants of the girl he murdered? Should they have a say in the matter?

[Foebane72]

Originally Posted by shodan

And what about the family / descendants of the girl he murdered? Should they have a say in the matter?

Murder is not the right word, I'm still convinced she would've survived if not for the incompetence of the surgeon.

Of course, if they had a say, then not knowing any better, they would demand the skeleton remain in the cupboard.

[shodan]

Originally Posted by JAMFish72

Murder is not the right word, I'm still convinced she would've survived if not for the incompetence of the surgeon.

Of course, if they had a say, then not knowing any better, they would demand the skeleton remain in the cupboard.

Seeing as he was hung for the murder of the girl then murder is the right word!
The treatment she received may amount to negligence now but it would not break the chain of causation and remove him from being responsible for her death by his own intentional actions.
She would not have received the injury if not for his actions, making him responsible. This is the law, not my opinion.

No different from man A in the street punching another man (B) who falls to the floor, fractures in skull on a curb and dies as a result of brain damage caused by the fractured skull. Man A would be held accountable for man B's death.

[Mr Incredible]

Originally Posted by shodan

Seeing as he was hung for the murder of the girl then murder is the right word!
The treatment she received may amount to negligence now but it would not break the chain of causation and remove him from being responsible for her death by his own intentional actions.
She would not have received the injury if not for his actions, making him responsible. This is the law, not my opinion.

No different from man A in the street punching another man (B) who falls to the floor, fractures in skull on a curb and dies as a result of brain damage caused by the fractured skull. Man A would be held accountable for man B's death.

Manslaughter though, not murder.

Video: Former boxer kills man with 'killer punch' | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by Mr Incredible

Manslaughter though, not murder.

Video: Former boxer kills man with 'killer punch' | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk

Not if the intent was to kill.
Intent (unlawful, naturally) equates to murder.

[krish]

Originally Posted by Phil57

Not if the intent was to kill.
Intent (unlawful, naturally) equates to murder.

and his confession seems to show intent, imho

"Lord, thou knowest that I did not mean then to take away her life but merely to punish her: though I confess that I made up my mind, some time or other, to murder her"

- BBC Online - Bristol - Features - John Horwood and his macabre book legacy

[Foebane72]

Wow, there's a truly medieval attitude to murderers from centuries past here, and it's well into the 21st Century!

What are you going to do next, insist the skeleton is buried at a crossroads with a stake through where the heart would be?

Get with the times, man!

[shodan]

Originally Posted by JAMFish72

Wow, there's a truly medieval attitude to murderers from centuries past here, and it's well into the 21st Century!

What are you going to do next, insist the skeleton is buried at a crossroads with a stake through where the heart would be?

Get with the times, man!

Please explain what you mean by this? I'm not suggesting the murderer was a witch or vampire so there would be no need for the stake or crossroads.

I was first stating that I'm surprised that anyone cares about the skeleton and secondly explained why I stated he was a murderer and how in todays English law he could still be convicted of Murder (although I do agree a charge of Manslaughter would be more appropriate). I didn't put my own opinion or attitude into any part of it!

[Flimber]

AFAIAC, once hanged he's paid his price and the body should always have been treated with respect. A shame it never was.

[Solomon Grundy]

There are few things more formidable than an old lady with a lot of spare time...

[Duncan G]

If his skeleton is to be buried, then the book bound with his skin should also be buried. The pages can be removed and kept.

[Mr Noble]

1821 just let it go.... could understand if it was 1981 but come on

[shodan]

Originally Posted by Mr Noble

1821 just let it go.... could understand if it was 1981 but come on

My thoughts exactly. Why is this even considered newsworthy?

[krish]

yup, should have been posted here
- Non-Story of the Decade.

[Foebane72]

Originally Posted by Flimber

AFAIAC, once hanged he's paid his price and the body should always have been treated with respect. A shame it never was.

Well, buried with respect inside prison walls rather than a regular cemetery, perhaps. Does that still happen?

And by your logic, then William Burke, the Edinburgh body-snatcher, should also be buried. His skeleton hangs in a glass case as well, in some museum somewhere. It was featured in the recent movie starring Simon Pegg and Andy Serkis.

[Flimber]

Originally Posted by JAMFish72

Well, buried with respect inside prison walls rather than a regular cemetery, perhaps. Does that still happen?...

Capital Punishment doesn't still happen but if it did it probably would. I certainly know of one UK prison where the staff car park is built over noose victim's graves.

[Foebane72]

Originally Posted by Flimber

Capital Punishment doesn't still happen but if it did it probably would. I certainly know of one UK prison where the staff car park is built over noose victim's graves.

Another icky Crime and Punishment fact, eh?

What about nowadays? Lifers, etc? I suppose they get buried in public cemeteries?