[mattrixdesign2]

Hi Guys

Just a quick question before I write me formal letter(s)

I bought a PS3 back in May 2007, it lasted 13 months, I went back to the retailer, they were not much help, I went to Sony and they offered to replace it free of charge (good service I thought). Now this replacement had died last night. Sony want £111 to service and fix it + 3 month Warranty, the retailer I originally bought it from (now taken over) say it is over 1 year old the responsibility it with Sony - SAME OLD STORY!!!

Ignoring the debate on my rights... my questions is, who really is responsible now. I know my contract was/is with the retailer BUT Sony did the replacement first time round (I chose this option as it was FREE and less hassle).

I plan to write letters to both retailer and Sony, but I am not sure where to pitch the responsibility.

Also, charge back on credit cards, would I be covered at all?

Thanks

[PJTX100]

Two schools of thought usually emerge in situations like this.

1. Goods should be fit for purpose and arguably something as expensive as a PS3 should last longer than you have experienced.

2. Extended warranties are available, for extra cost of course, and you can't have it both ways if something fails out of warranty.

In terms of your question, it's well gone past the stage where the retailer has any obligations in this situation. So you are best persisting with Sony.

[Jenn]

I believe (but I may be wrong) that the second console wouldn't have come with a new warranty; you would still have only the original console's warranty.

So basically you've had the console for 2.5 years and I think you'd struggle to get anything out of the retailer or Sony for free.

Bearing in mind that by this time you would have to prove that the console died because of a fault that was present at the time of purchase rather than it dying because of overheating or other user related issue before anyone takes notice.

[mattrixdesign2]

Not the kind of replies I wanted to hear

I am aware of the rights and wrongs, but for two machines to fail in 2 1/2 years is NOT acceptable in my opinion, never known anything like it, other than a fridge freezer that died after 13/14months.

As for proving the console "died because of a fault at manufacture", I would happily get an independent experts opinion if I had to go down the small claims route. There are plenty of these problems occuring, hence Sony are standing firm, it could get costly (MS/Xbox!).

Any way, that is not where I wanted this thread to go, my questions is, due the fact Sony'd replacement failed, who do I fight this out with retailer or Sony, or may just try BOTH!

[Shoka]

Originally Posted by mattrixdesign2

due the fact Sony'd replacement failed, who do I fight this out with retailer or Sony, or may just try BOTH!

I think your argument is with Sony. Wasn't there some thing that came up a while ago that electronic equipment should last at least 3 years if used in the capacity it was designed for?

[Kebabhead]

Originally Posted by mattrixdesign2

Any way, that is not where I wanted this thread to go, my questions is, due the fact Sony'd replacement failed, who do I fight this out with retailer or Sony, or may just try BOTH!

This is a Q&A taken from Trading Standards website

Q. I bought a microwave oven four months ago, and it went wrong. The shop has replaced it with a brand new one, which is working well. They won't, however, give me a new guarantee for this replacement. Can I demand one?

A. No. Remember, guarantees are viewed as being an optional extra, and are provided in addition to your legal rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended). Manufacturers will usually argue that their intention is to provide you with extra protection under the guarantee for a fixed period of time after the initial purchase, often for twelve months. Therefore, no matter how many repairs or replacements you get, it is usual for the manufacturers to stick to this time limit. You can always try negotiating though - sometimes persistence pays off, especially if you have had lots of problems with a particular make or model.

Again not the answer you were hoping for

You'll just have to keep on at Sony

[qwerty321]

Originally Posted by Jenn

I believe (but I may be wrong) that the second console wouldn't have come with a new warranty; you would still have only the original console's warranty.

So basically you've had the console for 2.5 years and I think you'd struggle to get anything out of the retailer or Sony for free.

Bearing in mind that by this time you would have to prove that the console died because of a fault that was present at the time of purchase rather than it dying because of overheating or other user related issue before anyone takes notice.

The OP had the original faulty console replaced.

18 months definitely isn't long enough for the life of a console. Id chase it up with Sony.

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by Shoka

if used in the capacity it was designed for?

But that's where the problem lies. Are the manufacturer likely to take anyone at face value when they say that they always used the console exactly as required by the manufacturer?
I know plenty of people will have the console inside an AV cabinet or shelving unit and I would bet that there isn't enough ventilation and space around it as required by the manufacturer in many cases.

The replacement console is also probably a reconditioned unit so it's not 1.5 years old, it's probably as old as the original one would be now.

By all means I would contact Sony and explain that it's not right for the console to fail like that but I don't think they're under any obligation to do anything unless there was an inherent fault.

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by qwerty321

The OP had the original faulty console replaced.

18 months definitely isn't long enough for the life of a console. Id chase it up with Sony.

See my point above about the console probably being reconditioned rather than brand new. They usually replace with a unit of similar age and condition, just one that works.
Only assuming though.

[mattrixdesign2]

I have just put a formal letter to the retailer, next is Sony - they have annoyed me with this, I know its a contract with the retailer, but rather their arrogance on the fault, something MS accted on with the 360!

I have never ever has a console/PC/TV fail on me, then I have 2 PS3 die

[Iccz]

PS3 section might be of use, remember Sony were on watchdog not log ago about how useless they are when things go wrong.

[DPinBucks]

Basically, you've had the PS3 for 2.5 years or so, which is not long for an item like this to last, but is rather longer than is generally covered by consumer law. You say the original supplier has been taken over, which probably means that the new owner has no responsibility. Also, you passed it to Sony, admittedly on the supplier's advice, which might mean that you've given up any claim on the supplier. That leaves the credit card company, who have a joint responsibilty with the supplier.

However, I think you're going to have a problem proving liability. Sony would point out that two PS3s in your possession failed in roughly the same timescale (just over a year). That could be claimed by them to show some consistency in the way you [mis-]treat them. At the crunch, the onus is squarely on you to show a manufacturing or design defect which would cause that.

That being said, I would definitely try all three sources: lodge a formal claim and see what happens.

[mattrixdesign2]

Originally Posted by DPinBucks

Basically, you've had the PS3 for 2.5 years or so, which is not long for an item like this to last, but is rather longer than is generally covered by consumer law. You say the original supplier has been taken over, which probably means that the new owner has no responsibility. Also, you passed it to Sony, admittedly on the supplier's advice, which might mean that you've given up any claim on the supplier. That leaves the credit card company, who have a joint responsibilty with the supplier.

However, I think you're going to have a problem proving liability. Sony would point out that two PS3s in your possession failed in roughly the same timescale (just over a year). That could be claimed by them to show some consistency in the way you [mis-]treat them. At the crunch, the onus is squarely on you to show a manufacturing or design defect which would cause that.

That being said, I would definitely try all three sources: lodge a formal claim and see what happens.

Fair comments, they highlight my concerns, I have written a letter to the retailer (now part of littlewoods) claiming based on SOGA, I have written to Sony, stating its now their issue as their replacement was not satisfactorty... also given them the blurb ref MS accepting resposibility, their wild initial 10yr claim (in terms of usage), and the increase of broken consoles that can be resolved often in the same way, therefore suggesting an inherent fault.

Also requested a form from my CC company. I am hoping ONE of these channels takes responsibility. I think a free of charge fix, would be acceptable.

THANKS ALL FOR YOUR COMMENTS.

MODS can you please close this now, I have gained what I want, and dont wish this to turn into a "what are your rights" topic.

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by mattrixdesign2

I have written to Sony, stating its now their issue as their replacement was not satisfactorty...

Surely after the first 6 months it's your responsibility to prove the fault, how do you plan on doing this?

[nheather]

My expereince is this

If you take it back to the retailer and they replace it with a new retail box, then you have got a brand new machine which you can register and has a full 12 months warranty.

If the box is repaired or replaced by the manufacturer by a non-retail box then you have the larger of

(i) Remainder of the original warranty

(ii) A limited warranty on the replacement (usually 3 months)

Obviously SOGA and fit for purpose is another avenue.

But on pure warranty situation I imagine you are out of luck.

So you will have to pursue it on the SOGA, fit for purpose, how long is it expected to last etc. Be prepared though - very few manufacturers\retailers roll over and give in at the mention of the SOGA. Most of the first tiers you encounter will deny its applicability. And whilst most court cases find in favour of the customer, many manufacturers\retailers will still let you take it right up to the 11th hour before conceding. Basically, they are relying on you not wanting to go to initial expense, bother and being without your machine for months and months.

Cheers,

Nigel

[mattrixdesign2]

Originally Posted by Iccz

Surely after the first 6 months it's your responsibility to prove the fault, how do you plan on doing this?

based on...

"the increase of broken consoles that can be resolved often in the same way, therefore suggesting an inherent fault."

and if it goes to small claims, possibly an independent experts opinion.

[mattrixdesign2]

Originally Posted by nheather

But on pure warranty situation I imagine you are out of luck.

I do not plan on going down the warranty route, waste of time. Having said that it turns out my C/C covers items within 24 months (they offer an additional 12 months on top of the manufactures warranty).

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by mattrixdesign2

based on...

"the increase of broken consoles that can be resolved often in the same way, therefore suggesting an inherent fault."

and if it goes to small claims, possibly an independent experts opinion.

Good luck with that, you obviously missed the YLOD issue that was on Watchdog, who proved that the problem was with poor solder connections and could be fixed my putting the board in some kind of oven thing they made specially to melt the solder so that it would re-connect them, they fixed a load of them on the show and Sony still failed to accept responsibility of an inherent fault. I fear you might be out of luck

Sony & Playstation + Watchdog !!!!

[Kebabhead]

Originally Posted by mattrixdesign2

I do not plan on going down the warranty route, waste of time. Having said that it turns out my C/C covers items within 24 months (they offer an additional 12 months on top of the manufactures warranty).

You still going to get another PS3 then

[mattrixdesign2]

Originally Posted by Kebabhead

You still going to get another PS3 then

No the CC covers 24months, I am on the 30th month or there abouts.

I did quickly buy a replacement from ASDA, Slim £217 + a chart game.

[FaxFan2002]

I had the same problem with a panny plasma.

I got it repaired by panny then put in a claim in the small claims court for the amount of the repair (this was a known manufacturing fault). Sure they paid up.

I would get the item repaired and put a claim in the small claims court, for the amount of the repair less a little for wear and tear but then add some in for the time and hassle. You should get you money back.

I know this isn't the way the law works or you should do x y z but the small claims court works on fairness as well and quite frankly it seems to work this way.