legal question regarding couriers... and stuff left with neighbours

[Mac Man]

Just wondered if anyone has had this experience as either customer or retailer or courier...

My partner runs an internet business. She shipped a box of stuff (worth £200) last week - should have been delivered last Monday. She gets a call about an hour ago from the customer saying the stuff hasn't arrived.

so she checks with the courier firm to find out what's happened. Couriers say the goods were left with a neighbour and have a POD. Armed with teh POD details she phones the customer back to say it was left with neighbour X. Whilst still on the phone the customer walks over to neighbours house to ask about the delivery. Turns out the neighbour took the package and then promptly left it outside the customers house, in broad view of the whole street. So it would appear it's been nicked.

So my question is.... who is responsible?

There were no instructions for the couriers to leave with a neighbour - so have they really been delivered?
The goods have, technically, (ie they have a POD) been delivered, but the customer hasn't got them.
The dumb ass neighbour?

The Mrs doesn't want to be left out of pocket... but doesn't want to let a customer down either.

Any ideas?

[bazonix]

had this issue with Argos and a few competition prizes from the xmas party last year....

they left it at a shop next door only to be stolen by the staff we approached them and confronted them but they had even signed it with a false name....

end result.... Argos had to replace everything (nice of them) and it wasnt cheap... 2 lcd tv's, 3 ipods and some other things....

BUT it was their own courier..... did you have courier insurance? in that instance id blame the courier and beat thy neighbour

[nheather]

Very difficult.

I guess there are a number of answers depending on approach.

1. Absolute legal - when it comes to court.

Well it isn't your partner and you have POD. And it wasn't the courier as they have POD. You even have the customer confirming POD on the telephone (was that a recorded call?).

2. Failure to follow the absolute process.

Well it maybe the courier because it might be that they are not strictly allowed to leave with someone else. But to be honest, they are only trying to be helpful and I for one would not want them to stop doing that - easy to say I know when you have decent neighbours.

3. Maintaining a business reputation.

Well maybe for your partner to decide with the courier.

Of course it could well be that the neighbour has nicked it. Or the recipient has nicked it. Or they cooked it up between themselves.

So legally, I'd say the problem lies with the neighbour and recipient. Your partner just needs to decide the cost of harm that could be done to the business good will if the recipient gets 'mouthy'.

Cheers,

Nigel

[markgodley]

I guess if a customer paid for an item and it wasn't delivered to that address and to add not even signed by the customer, i cant really see it being the customers fault.

I'd say the fault is with the courier. You asked them to deliver the item to XXXX address they haven't.

[Mac Man]

Originally Posted by nheather

Very difficult.

I guess there are a number of answers depending on approach.

1. Absolute legal - when it comes to court.

Well it isn't your partner and you have POD. And it wasn't the courier as they have POD. You even have the customer confirming POD on the telephone (was that a recorded call?).

2. Failure to follow the absolute process.

Well it maybe the courier because it might be that they are not strictly allowed to leave with someone else. But to be honest, they are only trying to be helpful and I for one would not want them to stop doing that - easy to say I know when you have decent neighbours.

3. Maintaining a business reputation.

Well maybe for your partner to decide with the courier.

Of course it could well be that the neighbour has nicked it. Or the recipient has nicked it. Or they cooked it up between themselves.

So legally, I'd say the problem lies with the neighbour and recipient. Your partner just needs to decide the cost of harm that could be done to the business good will if the recipient gets 'mouthy'.

Cheers,

Nigel

Aye... it's a right pickle. The goods are insured for up to £500. But that, I assume, is based on a delivery going missing or damaged. Which in this case is neither. As you say, she'll have to try the 'not proper procedure' to claim from the courier.

She has a good rep for customer service but it is particularly galling to be in a situation where some eejit is at fault (the neighbour), whom she has no comeback against.

[wiz]

Ultimately it's your partners responsibility. She chose the courier. But what I'd do is pass the charge on to the courier. You paid to get it delivered to address X and they did not do that!

[IronGiant]

The courier left it with a completely random person, who happens to be a neighbour, they could have left it with Noddy and claimed to have delivered it. Fault lies with them if neither the customer nor your partner told them to leave it with a neighbour IMHO. Your partner should take it up with the courier and get compensation off them for non-delivery.

[GATESHEAD MOB]

Originally Posted by Mac Man

Just wondered if anyone has had this experience as either customer or retailer or courier...

My partner runs an internet business. She shipped a box of stuff (worth £200) last week - should have been delivered last Monday. She gets a call about an hour ago from the customer saying the stuff hasn't arrived.

so she checks with the courier firm to find out what's happened. Couriers say the goods were left with a neighbour and have a POD. Armed with teh POD details she phones the customer back to say it was left with neighbour X. Whilst still on the phone the customer walks over to neighbours house to ask about the delivery. Turns out the neighbour took the package and then promptly left it outside the customers house, in broad view of the whole street. So it would appear it's been nicked.

So my question is.... who is responsible?

There were no instructions for the couriers to leave with a neighbour - so have they really been delivered?
The goods have, technically, (ie they have a POD) been delivered, but the customer hasn't got them.
The dumb ass neighbour?

The Mrs doesn't want to be left out of pocket... but doesn't want to let a customer down either.

Any ideas?

If the customer went and asked the Neighbour if she had recieved a parcel and they replied yes "but i put it back on your door step,"

Then i'd say 100% it's been delivered

[leeince]

I dont know if this will help but i recently finished a 6 month contract with the royal mail (i know you didnt use them) and although we did use to get neighbors to sign for things we were not suppose to, we were only suppose to get them signed for by people at the address on the package, i would assume that this is common practice with other companys aswell, so the couriers are at fault in my opion.

I would refund the customer, or re send the items so that your wife keeps her good reputation and then take it up with the couriers. Your wifes company is in way at fault but it might take a while to get the couriers to cough up and your customer might not want to wait.

[itsalive]

which parcel network was it?

did your partner say the goods can not be left with a neighbour?

have you checked their terms and conditions to see if its standard practise that they try a neighbour if no one is in?

[themilkman23]

Definitely take it up with the courier.

You paid for them to deliver it to a certain person at a certain address, they haven't done this.

[Mac Man]

It's the 1st time this has happened TBH.

The company she uses are called Fastways which is a franchise operation - all the drivers are owners, so there's generally a high incentive to do a good job.

She'll re-send the goods I've no doubt and then take the couriers to task on this. She does spend an awful lot with them... and there's plenty of competition for deliveries out there.

It's probably just a set of bum circumstances, as I know many courier companies leave stuff with neighbours etc. But there's no accounting for idiot neighbours is there?

[LFC_SL]

Originally Posted by nheather

1. Absolute legal - when it comes to court.

Well it isn't your partner and you have POD. And it wasn't the courier as they have POD. You even have the customer confirming POD on the telephone (was that a recorded call?).

Sorry Nigel but I have to comment because this is statement has no legal basis at all. The Sale of Goods Act 1979 has a quite clear position on deliveries where there is no express agreement to the contrary. So why substitute your opinion for legal advice?

[itsalive]

Originally Posted by Mac Man

It's the 1st time this has happened TBH.

The company she uses are called Fastways which is a franchise operation - all the drivers are owners, so there's generally a high incentive to do a good job.

She'll re-send the goods I've no doubt and then take the couriers to task on this. She does spend an awful lot with them... and there's plenty of competition for deliveries out there.

It's probably just a set of bum circumstances, as I know many courier companies leave stuff with neighbours etc. But there's no accounting for idiot neighbours is there?

tell your wife to fill in an insurance claim atraight away, all courier firms have different timescale for logging claims for losses, damages etc.

not sure how she books the deliveries either online or via a phone call and then filling out a manifest pad, get her to check if there is any mention of delivering to neighbours on of either of these fronts, if it says something like "if no one is at the delivery point then we will attempt to try a neighbour" and she signs or ticks a box agreeing to their terms and conditions then there could be an issue.

Has she ever told them not to leave with neighbours or have they ever asked the question?

and finally are you sure the both the neighbour and the customer are not in cahoots