[xit2050]

Anyone ever heard of Stefan Lanka?
Has some interesting things to say about this virus (and other like AIDS and bird flu).

€10,000 reward unclaimed
Interview with Stefan Lanka 27.10.2005 on "bird flu" and some related subjects

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by xit2050

Anyone ever heard of Stefan Lanka?
Has some interesting things to say about this virus (and other like AIDS and bird flu).

€10,000 reward unclaimed
Interview with Stefan Lanka 27.10.2005 on "bird flu" and some related subjects

He's said a lot about H5N1 and AIDS (and other retro viruses - or lack of them )

Ignoring his arguments about bird flu transmission, his arguments seem rather like arguing against atoms because they are invisible.

He doesn't AFAIK propose any alternative method of disease transmission, provides no suggestions as to why flu immunisation generally seems to work for other strains, and really has a thing for reverse transcriptase.

Is he wacko ? - probably* yes - but then perhaps we have all been brainwashed into believing viruses are real.

GasDad


* But then most people thought Einstein was after his paper on the photoelectric effect.

[xit2050]

Originally Posted by GasDad

Ignoring his arguments about bird flu transmission, his arguments seem rather like arguing against atoms because they are invisible.

But is it true what he says?
Has the existence of the HIV virus or this new one (the swine flu) never been scientifically proven?

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by xit2050

But is it true what he says?
Has the existence of the HIV virus or this new one (the swine flu) never been scientifically proven?

There are two different arguments at work here.

HIV

In the case of HIV - the bloke simply doesn't seem to believe in retroviruses (basically viruses made of RNA rather than DNA).

Now the genetic sequence of what everyone else calls the AIDS virus is well established. And the sequence of variations between different forms of the virus is also well known.

I've had a look today - I can't find any actual pictures of HIV (which I was suprised about) - at least not in any free sources.

However AFAIK - everyone who has symptons of AIDS, when tested is found to be positive for HIV - where as members of the general population do not.

Now that doesn't 'prove' that HIV causes AIDS - but I'm not going to bet against it.

In the case of Swince Flu (H1N1)

Again the sequence of various flu viruses are well documented - hell someone has even converted some of the genes in H1N1 to music.
Doesn't prove the viruses actually exist or cause flu of course.

Though Stefan never seems to be asked, just how do flu vaccines work then ? (and work they seem to).

The photographs he is after are the hard part for anyone to come up with. (one of the conditions of his bet) - viruses are to small for optical microscopes, (they are generally less that 300nm). So you have to use an electron microscope - which doesn't really produce photographs.

I think people outside the mainstream of science should be listened to on the whole - but in this case I'm not sure.


GasDad

[NikB]

You can very easily take photos of viruses with an electron microscope.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by NikB

You can very easily take photos of viruses with an electron microscope.

I would have thought that was the case - but I can't find a picture of HIV that is more than just a blob.

[xit2050]

Originally Posted by GasDad

I would have thought that was the case - but I can't find a picture of HIV that is more than just a blob.

Wouldn't that support his statement that its existence has never been scientifically proven?
I know absolutely nothing about all this, I'm just thinking out loud.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by xit2050

Wouldn't that support his statement that its existence has never been scientifically proven?
I know absolutely nothing about all this, I'm just thinking out loud.

It could just be bad searching on my part.

Further searching: http://www.avert.org/photo_library/i...oto_no_256.jpg

That looks right - but it doesn't prove it's a retro virus, or that it causes AIDS.

Very few things get 'proven' in science - science doesn't work like that, it relies instead on theories (or current best guess if you prefer). The current theories that Stefan Lanka is objecting to are that HIV causes AIDS, and H1N1 causes swine flu. He doesn't AFAIK provide an alternative theory.