[kopchoir]

I have worked in the health service for a long time and i know the ins and outs of antibiotic prohphalxis and resiistance to antibiotics but im getting worried now yes people die of the flu every year even healthy people cant think of many in july though the flu would take over lower immune system and cause other problems most common respiratory problems.

But its starting to get hold now and the goverment is not doing much to aleviate fears either, just reading some posts on here people are panicking and getting worried the media is not helping either, firms are now giving staff guidance,surgeries giving prophalaxis out like smarties now.

And now even im worried,worried as i will be goign back to work shortly and if this outbreak gets worse not the best place to be going to work without a jab.

Kop

[johntheexpat]

Worried, no. Philosophical? Yes.
The UK Gov. has gone to the trouble of getting enough Tamiflu for most residents to have a dose should they require it. But there aren't enough doses for everyone to have two goes. So if they are dishing it out like smarties now, what about if the flu mutates and comes back in 6 months?
I personally wouldn't bank on the "I've had it once so I will be safe next time" approach. Are you really sure it was H1N1? Did anyone test it? Did it really knock you sideways or was it just like a bad cold (ie it possibly was a bad cold).

Then again, what it mutates into is anybody's guess, so how are you supposed to defend against an unknown enemy? And how sure are they that they will be able to research, test, check for safety and produce an new vaccine in huge quantities in a short time? They haven't done it before.

Is there really anything we can do? Other than stay as fit and healthy as we can so that if/when it strikes we can give it our best shot. It seems that it is so contagious that avoiding it will be practically impossible unless we become isolated hermits for the foreseeable future.

Not a serious question, but also not entirely fatuous, should we be quietly panic buying now and buying in stocks of water/tinned food/dried staples like pasta and rice/lay down a few gallons of derv/bottled gas etc etc?

I wish I could tell the future, it would making planning so much easier.

[kopchoir]

I would imagine the cost to diagnose people is probably more than it is to actually give them free tamiflu tablets so as always the cheaper opton prevails even if its not the correct one

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

I would imagine the cost to diagnose people is probably more than it is to actually give them free tamiflu tablets so as always the cheaper opton prevails even if its not the correct one

It also keeps people at home, and stops the infecting others in GP waiting rooms etc.

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by GasDad

It also keeps people at home, and stops the infecting others in GP waiting rooms etc.

But still not the correct way to do things IMO you can call your GP out to you treating the symptoms and not the cause is really bad you can test for swine flu by a swab but cant test for it over the phone so treating symptoms when you could clearly find out if you have it or not

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

But still not the correct way to do things IMO you can call your GP out to you treating the symptoms and not the cause is really bad you can test for swine flu by a swab but cant test for it over the phone so treating symptoms when you could clearly find out if you have it or not

I think you are wrong.


Before the vaccine becomes available, GP's need somehow to minimize contact with those who may swine flu.

Testing for Swine Flu from a swab takes at least a day of lab time, add in another day for getting samples and results back and forth, and all you've achieved is to delay the early treatment of those who have the disease.

There is no 'dipstick' test available - it has to go to a lab.

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by GasDad

I think you are wrong.


Before the vaccine becomes available, GP's need somehow to minimize contact with those who may swine flu.

Testing for Swine Flu from a swab takes at least a day of lab time, add in another day for getting samples and results back and forth, and all you've achieved is to delay the early treatment of those who have the disease.

There is no 'dipstick' test available - it has to go to a lab.

I know about lab time i know what i meant when i said a swab meaning throat and nose swab to detect the swine flu.

Im coming from a different approach so you give everyone Tamiflu who phones up the doctor and reports flu like symptoms

No this is not the way to do it honestly the bodies resistance and suseptability to antibiotics is not a good thing dishing out Tamiflu to every one is not the way forward the only reason they are doing this is because its cheaper than the lab nothing to do with cross contamination at the gp surgery

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

I know about lab time i know what i meant when i said a swab meaning throat and nose swab to detect the swine flu.

Im coming from a different approach so you give everyone Tamiflu who phones up the doctor and reports flu like symptoms

No this is not the way to do it honestly the bodies resistance and suseptability to antibiotics is not a good thing dishing out Tamiflu to every one is not the way forward the only reason they are doing this is because its cheaper than the lab nothing to do with cross contamination at the gp surgery

Tamiflu is not an antibiotic.

Doing it your way, the labs will be swamped, those infected will not have their treatment until it is actually pointless to prescribe it.

If we end up with 100,000 cases a day, what do you suggest we do then ?

It isn't a case of being cheaper - it is the only practical way to manage the limited treatment avaialble. Or do you really think GP's have time to visit what 10 -20 patients a day this week ,20- 40 patients a day next week etc.

[bazonix]

hi

tamiflu is an anti viral.... the swine a(H1N1) flu is actually showing signs of resistance to this medicine now so a broad acting vaccine will become available, and like i posted a while back, the currently available flu vaccine can help reduce viral loads including swine, on the body.....

GP's who are in contact with the public during the outbreak are being advised on a six week prophylactic course of tamiflu (for themselves) to help prevent a build up of the virus in the body....

an excellent guide is here:

http://www.wellcare.co.uk/UserFiles/file/Tamiflu.pdf

it cover's a lot of bases but as someone who is in contact with sufferers every day, i stand by my own protocol and that means treat symptomatically.... id much rather wait for a vaccine than medicate on tamiflu or relenza.... and if/when i get the virus, ill treat it according to my symptoms....

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by bazonix

it cover's a lot of bases but as someone who is in contact with sufferers every day, i stand by my own protocol and that means treat symptomatically.... id much rather wait for a vaccine than medicate on tamiflu or relenza.... and if/when i get the virus, ill treat it according to my symptoms....

The vaccine isn't going to help treat those who are infected.

[bazonix]

thats why those who are not affected and have no symptoms should not be worried about taking tamiflu as a current priority.... and thats the problem.... many people are presenting with prescriptions 'for the sake of it' as their neighbours son who lives miles away has it..... as an example..... im a firm believer that our immune systems are stronger than that, and having read many paper's on the effects of 'open-mindedness' when ill, i believe it to

the vaccine will still be prioritised for the elderly, sick and immuno-compromised but i have the feeling there will be mass inoculation over the next 12-24 months..... business owners, school children, army personnel, nhs staff.... people who are in vulnerable positions will all have to have an effective antigens to this virus.... and tamiflu is not enough, especially as resistance is already out there.....

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by bazonix

... and tamiflu is not enough, especially as resistance is already out there.....

Do you have a link to an article on this ?

EDIT: Please ignore - found plenty of articles now (don't quite know what I searched for last time lol).

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by GasDad

Tamiflu is not an antibiotic.

Yeah i know apologies if it came out that way my reasoning was on the resistance to the anti viral was my main point i just used antibiotic treatment as the basis of most peoples thoughts kind of thing so apologies

Originally Posted by bazonix

hi


GP's who are in contact with the public during the outbreak are being advised on a six week prophylactic course of tamiflu (for themselves) to help prevent a build up of the virus in the body....


it cover's a lot of bases but as someone who is in contact with sufferers every day, i stand by my own protocol and that means treat symptomatically.... id much rather wait for a vaccine than medicate on tamiflu or relenza.... and if/when i get the virus, ill treat it according to my symptoms....

Six week propholaxis thats quite heavy but should build up enough prevention

Fair enough
My point imo was a valid one and was just using this as a case not to treat everyone symptomatically, I know the HPA and the DOH have now advised on this course of action but 5 day courses vs resistance hard one to judge at times.
And i wonder how many people who cant get an appointment have a telephone consultation or google symptoms to get the treatment hard call imo

would be good to know the details of things from a statistic point of view from seasonal flu vs swine flu shame not everyone can be tested for it

[bazonix]

Originally Posted by GasDad

Do you have a link to an article on this ?

EDIT: Please ignore - found plenty of articles now (don't quite know what I searched for last time lol).

im not allowed to give very specific details as its confidential (without scare-mongering) but as a specialist in pharmacology and pharmacy i assure u that resistance is present and will only increase....

but here is info for the 'public':

tamiflu resistance - Google News

[Miyazaki]

Kopchoir - speak to your union if you are worried. You work in a high risk profession, but there must be some kind of safeguard in exceptional circumstances.

My wife works in a primary school and a kid has been diagnosed with swine flu in her class and is not in school at the moment, but that doesn't mean the child was not contagious last week. My wife also has asthma which could be potentially deadly to her if and when she contracts swine flu.

There must surely come a point where your own health and safety superceeds that of providing a service to others. I fear we are fast approching that point with people at high risk from swine flu.

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

I would imagine the cost to diagnose people is probably more than it is to actually give them free tamiflu tablets so as always the cheaper opton prevails even if its not the correct one

But without the test, are the NHS treating people for a disease they may not have? And without comprehensive testing there is no real way to monitor the spread of the (real) swine flu and data like that is invaluable to the scientists whose job it is to develop strategies etc for containment and control.
I know that it isn't cheap but surely the data is necessary otherwise we may be faced with a second wave for which we have no real preconceived plan of attack. At the moment it is just hearsay and guesswork that is controlling the response rather than anything based on hard data. If 80% of the undiagnosed cases are flu rather than swine flu, everything changes. But we don't know for sure. 'The symptoms probably indicate swine flu' is no way to gather figures, especially as people are now well briefed on the symptoms and many may well over-egg it to get Tamiflu that they can then save for a real emergency.
Hard facts, which should under-pin everything, are pretty thin on the ground. Everything seems to be based on PR rather than good practice.

[alexs2]

As has been said repeatedly here and elsewhere,the current pandemic H1N1 flu strain is of relatively low overall virulence,even as compared to common flu.

The issue is that as this is a pandemic variant,there are a huge number of persons actively infected,and despite the low overall virulence,we have seen,and will see more deaths as a result of it.

As with common flu,MOST people will have a relatively mild form of the disease,and will not require any treatment.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

Hard facts, which should under-pin everything, are pretty thin on the ground. Everything seems to be based on PR rather than good practice.

They are testing representative samples. It is all they can do, without devoting the entire laboratory resources of the NHS solely on Swine Flu.

That to me seems good practice.

[siber0]

Originally Posted by GasDad

Some of us have people we care about etc., and are hence concerned (to various levels).

You on the other hand......

OK, granted, I could have expressed that one better but please don’t presume I don’t have people I care about. All I’m saying is that in the great scheme of things there are more pressing issues to be worried about than a virus which, currently, seems to be no more a threat to life than normal flu. Yes, it will be more widespread and, yes, there will be more deaths as a result, which is regrettable, but until otherwise healthy people start dropping like flies I’ll be more concerned about issues like crossing the road safely, cancer, climate change, the energy crisis, Afghanistan, international terrorism, the global economy and how this country is rapidly going down the toilet. In fact, if I had to worry myself over anything that represented a 0.1% chance of death, I would have run for the hills long ago. Just trying to keep it in perspective and not give in to media-induced panic. ‘Nuff said. I’ll get me coat.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by siber0

Just trying to keep it in perspective and not give in to media-induced panic. ‘Nuff said. I’ll get me coat.

Who's panicking? - a few people have expressed concern, others have responded and tried to get to the bottom of the issue.

[johntheexpat]

Originally Posted by GasDad

They are testing representative samples. It is all they can do, without devoting the entire laboratory resources of the NHS solely on Swine Flu.

That to me seems good practice.

My point is that more testing would be better practice. This link from the BBC
'Better data needed' on swine flu

And if it is true that people are just able to phone up their GPs, verbally present a list of symptoms and then get a prescription for Tamiflu without any other checks and balances, then the wisdom of that as a strategy really must be questioned. Powerful anti-virals that are still relatively new to medicine being dished out like smarties on a nod and a wink? Definitely not best practice, IMO

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

My point is that more testing would be better practice. This link from the BBC
'Better data needed' on swine flu

And if it is true that people are just able to phone up their GPs, verbally present a list of symptoms and then get a prescription for Tamiflu without any other checks and balances, then the wisdom of that as a strategy really must be questioned. Powerful anti-virals that are still relatively new to medicine being dished out like smarties on a nod and a wink? Definitely not best practice, IMO

Pretty much my point throughout the thread there John

I am not panicking either i was just getting everyones own personal thoughts on the subject, and we know there are other pressing concerns, but this is now affecting a lot of people now and when its on your own doorstep you tend to have another think about things.

With myself i have not been tested for swine flu but have finished the course of Tamiflu and im still not right i think i have/had swine Flu to be honest, and dont know what my next step would be i shoudl really speak to my GP and see if get topped up with more anti virals before returning to work.

[Hillskill]

Does anyone know of anyone who has been pregnant and suffered with Swine Flu ? What did their GP advise them ?

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by Hillskill

Does anyone know of anyone who has been pregnant and suffered with Swine Flu ? What did their GP advise them ?

If you are worried about someone in your family etc who may be pregnant and at risk,you would be best advised to contact your GP directly,and they would also be able to gain an opinion from the patient's obstetrician.

It is considered that pregnancy may constitute an increased risk of complications relating to H1N1,but it should be noted that this warning would apply to common flu also.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by johntheexpat

My point is that more testing would be better practice. This link from the BBC
'Better data needed' on swine flu

How much more testing ? everyone ? 50 % of suspected cases ? 10%.

It's a balancing act, between costs, valuable lab time, risk to staff etc etc.

Just because someone from Imperial College doesn't have reasonable data to work,with, you can't really assume that that data doesn't exist.

[CAS FAN]

Fairly concerned as i've had to come home from work today with flu symptoms. Started as just a sore throat yesterday and felt like I was just either run down or starting with a cold. Today I feel pretty lousy, really bad headache (untouched by cold/flu remedies), sweats, aching, really tired (even though I slept from 10 til 6 last night), sore throat, phlegm, confusion and swollen glands.

I've had flu before though and that was much worse than how I feel now. Last time I collapsed shaking and spent the next day or so shivering (even though I was wrapped up in several layers) and didn't get out of bed for a week!

I'm much more concerned for my wife however as we are expecting our second child. I'm also really concerned about my 3 yr old son as I would hate for him to have to go through having the flu.

Anyway, the wife is picking up some Tamiflu for me after work so hopefully that will help.

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

I'm much more concerned for my wife however as we are expecting our second child. I'm also really concerned about my 3 yr old son as I would hate for him to have to go through having the flu.

Anyway, the wife is picking up some Tamiflu for me after work so hopefully that will help.

Thats was my only concern as well let me know how you get on with the Tamiflu hope your feeling better soon

Si

[Naaktgeboren]

My wife is pregnant and is a school teacher. Yesterday a girl in her class informed her that her mother has swine flu. Today the same girl told her that her younger sister also has it now.

My wife informed her head teacher who told her "if you are concerned, speak to your GP"

How's that for handling a situation, words fail me. What the hell is that girl still doing at school, school flu's travel like wildfire.

She is phoning her midwife now for advice.

Nightmare

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by CloggyNL

My wife is pregnant and is a school teacher. Yesterday a girl in her class informed her that her mother has swine flu. Today the same girl told her that her younger sister also has it now.

My wife informed her head teacher who told her "if you are concerned, speak to your GP"

How's that for handling a situation, words fail me. What the hell is that girl still doing at school, school flu's travel like wildfire.

She is phoning her midwife now for advice.

Nightmare

Cloggy,as I'm sure you'll understand,heads of departments often have no better knowledge than anyone else,and in any case would be offering non-qualified advice.

The best course is for your wife to see her own GP,who will have the latest NHS guidelines available to him,and will also be able to refer her to her obstetrician if neccessary.

Being pregnant is considered to be an added risk both in terms of common flu and H1N1.
The degree of risk is not specified,and thus seeing your own doctor is the best route as he/she has access to your records,and is best placed to assess that risk.

As I've explained in a few other threads here,containment is no longer a possibility,and exposure in the street,shops,or via friends etc etc is at least as likely.

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

Thats was my only concern as well let me know how you get on with the Tamiflu hope your feeling better soon

Si

Thanks Si, will keep you informed with how things progress. I asked the doc about my wife when I rang up earlier and she did say that there was an increased risk, but there was nothing they could do until she showed any symptoms. Basically she said for her just to ring up if she becomes symptomatic.