[fortean]

Articles | Swine flu: plans to vaccinate UK - ITV News

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6689955.ece

[The Bass]

My mother is a physiotherapist and her whole department has had to go on a course so that they can administer the vaccination as well as GP's surgeries.

[gavan]

Have to admit that this is worrying. The spin is that swine flu is no worse than seasonal flu ... well there isn't a programme to vaccinate everyone against seasonal flu every year (just the vulnerable and key workers) so why is it necessary to contemplate doing vaccinations for the entire population for swine flu?

Clearly, swine flu is a greater threat than regular flu.

[neilneil]

Originally Posted by gavan

Have to admit that this is worrying. The spin is that swine flu is no worse than seasonal flu ... well there isn't a programme to vaccinate everyone against seasonal flu every year (just the vulnerable and key workers) so why is it necessary to contemplate doing vaccinations for the entire population for swine flu?

Clearly, swine flu is a greater threat than regular flu.

I imagine because it is so contageous that if everybody gets it then there are a huge number of high risk people that will suffer badly.
If you vaccinate everyone you will stop or slow it's spread enough to keep those high risk people safe.

-Neil

[Bilbob]

It's not just the high number of people who will suffer very badly with it,... It's the contagiousnous (sp?) that is the problem... if everyone in the country gets it, then over the next 3 months everyone in the country has a week or two off work... that would be VERY bad for the country indeed!!

[Miyazaki]

The vaccine will be totally useless when the virus mutates.

[Dunwa]

I wonder how many people will refuse to have the jab because they don't trust the government. Will it be MMR all over again. My son won't be able to have it but that's because he allergic to eggs and the vaccine is grown in eggs.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by Miyazaki

The vaccine will be totally useless when the virus mutates.

Not in the short terms (this year) it won't. Any likely mutation is only going to produce a variant of the virus (rather than a new strain), and therefore this flu vaccine, (like regular flu vaccines) should provide protection.

[roygbiv6]

Originally Posted by Deepcore

I wonder how many people will refuse to have the jab because they don't trust the government. Will it be MMR all over again. My son won't be able to have it but that's because he allergic to eggs and the vaccine is grown in eggs.

Quite a few hopefully. I certainly wouldn't want to be one of the first guinea pigs taking a vaccine which has been rushed through in a few days the usual testing process which should take years to ensure its safety.

At best its typical of this governments overgovernment & at worst its something altogether more sinister. Probably have to see how this plays out to decide which.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by roygbiv6

Quite a few hopefully. I certainly wouldn't want to be one of the first guinea pigs taking a vaccine which has been rushed through in a few days the usual testing process which should take years to ensure its safety.

They introduce new flu vaccines every year - they don't take years to test as they are made in response to the likely flu strain around that year.

At best its typical of this governments overgovernment & at worst its something altogether more sinister. Probably have to see how this plays out to decide which.

Or it's the government actually doing its job.

[Stuart Wright]

I fully support vaccinations. Even though this strain of flu is not as deadly as some, it is clearly way more contagious. And the problem is that the more people who have the virus, the greater an opportunity it has to mutate into something more deadly.
Imagine if you had a 50/50 chance of surviving it? Society would be very different while the virus was about. I certainly wouldn't allow my kids out of the house.
So minimising the number of people who get it is a good thing from that point of view as well as the lost work aspect etc.

[roygbiv6]

Originally Posted by GasDad

They introduce new flu vaccines every year - they don't take years to test as they are made in response to the likely flu strain around that year.



Or it's the government actually doing its job.

That depends on who you think its actually working for I guess.

If they're rushing something through without taking due diligence I hope they do a better job than the lloyds hbos takeover botchjob, but then again it takes us back to the question who are they working for.

Re reading the bolded bits below sod that.

Originally Posted by Times

The path of a popular medicine from the laboratory to the chemist or doctor’s surgery can involve years of clinical trials on a select group of patients.

When the new vaccine for swine flu arrives in Britain, regulators said this weekend, it could be approved for use in just five days.

Regulators at the European Medicines Agency (EMEA) said the fast-tracked procedure has involved clinical trials of a “mock-up” vaccine similar to the one that will be used for the biggest mass vaccination programme in generations. It will be introduced into the general population while regulators continue to carry out simultaneous clinical trials.

The first patients in the queue for the jab - being supplied to the UK by GSK and Baxter Healthcare - may understandably be a little nervous at any possible side effects. A mass vaccination campaign against swine flu in America was halted in the 1970s after some people suffered Guillain-Barré syndrome, a disorder of the nervous system.

However, regulators said fast-tracking would not be at the expense of patient safety. “The vaccines are authorised with a detailed risk management plan,” the EMEA said. “There is quite a body of evidence regarding safety on the trials of the mock-up, and the actual vaccine could be assessed in five days.”

[Uridium]

Originally Posted by roygbiv6

That depends on who you think its actually working for I guess.

If they're rushing something through without taking due diligence I hope they do a better job than the lloyds hbos takeover botchjob, but then again it takes us back to the question who are they working for.

Re reading the bolded bits below sod that.

I'd like to think that medical science and drug testing has moved on a little from 1970 though...

[Leej]

Originally Posted by Stuart Wright

Imagine if you had a 50/50 chance of surviving it? Society would be very different while the virus was about. I certainly wouldn't allow my kids out of the house.

I would quite happily keep my kids in the house now until the vaccinations arrive. A few months doing nothing is a better thought than one of them catching it and having to hope that they pull through it.

OK, the odds are in the favour of surviving it but some people always go against the odds.

[roygbiv6]

Originally Posted by GasDad

They introduce new flu vaccines every year - they don't take years to test as they are made in response to the likely flu strain around that year.
.

This is from the governments own swine flu information pack.

IS THERE A VACCINATION I CAN HAVE?

Not at this stage. This type of flu is not the same as seasonal flu: it involves a completely new type of virus. A vaccine can only be developed when the specific strain has been identified, and it would then take several months to produce.

Originally Posted by Uridium

I'd like to think that medical science and drug testing has moved on a little from 1970 though...

I would hope so too but if this vaccine was rushed through testing in 5 days then it clearly wouldn't have.

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by roygbiv6

This is from the governments own swine flu information pack.

IS THERE A VACCINATION I CAN HAVE?

Not at this stage. This type of flu is not the same as seasonal flu: it involves a completely new type of virus. A vaccine can only be developed when the specific strain has been identified, and it would then take several months to produce.

I believe that is a little outdated now and the vaccine will be available come August.

It is very worrying especially as i have a young daughter at home who a couple of xmas ago was hospitalised for almost 2 weeks because of Pnemonia very worrying so when she comes down with flu/cold its normally worse for her.
I have been taking Tamiflu now for 5 days feel better but chest is still a little rattley and nose a little runny apart from that im not doing to bad my daughter on Saturday was quite ill and almost took her to the local out of hours service but thought just give her a day and see how she goes yesterday she was back to her usual self.
Kids although our greatest achievment we really must not try and wrap them up in cotton wool its incredibly difficult i know.

With regards to a vaccine ill be getting it as soon as it comes available due to work i should imagine.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by roygbiv6

This is from the governments own swine flu information pack.

IS THERE A VACCINATION I CAN HAVE?

Not at this stage. This type of flu is not the same as seasonal flu: it involves a completely new type of virus. A vaccine can only be developed when the specific strain has been identified, and it would then take several months to produce.

And your point is what exactly ? - we are now several months on from when the above was printed.

I would hope so too but if this vaccine was rushed through testing in 5 days then it clearly wouldn't have.

No it has been approved in 5 days - not tested in 5 days. There is a world of difference.

[PoochJD]

Hi,

Originally Posted by GasDad

No it has been approved in 5 days - not tested in 5 days. There is a world of difference.

I hate to be pedantic, but from the quote you mention, it reads to me as:

The vaccine has been rushed through the testing procedure, and that procedure only lasted 5 days.

This is very different to:

The vaccine has been thoroughly tested, and is now being rushed into production and distribution in only 5 days.

And different again, to:

The vaccine has been rushed into approval, in only 5 days.

If it's the former, which I think it is, then any kind of "rush job" is risky, and I don't want to be a test subject.


Pooch

[roygbiv6]

Originally Posted by GasDad

And your point is what exactly ? - we are now several months on from when the above was printed.

No it has been approved in 5 days - not tested in 5 days. There is a world of difference.

My point was that if it was a 'completely new type of virus' then the vaccine should be fully tested as such.

This was in response to you saying this below which makes no sense given that this is a 'completely new type of virus'.

Originally Posted by GasDad

They introduce new flu vaccines every year - they don't take years to test as they are made in response to the likely flu strain around that year.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by roygbiv6

My point was that if it was a 'completely new type of virus' then the vaccine should be fully tested as such.

This was in response to you saying this below which makes no sense given that this is a 'completely new type of virus'.

All flu viruses share common genetic patterns (otherwise they wouldn't be flu)

Making a vaccine for a new type of flu, in this case swine flu, is no different to making a vaccine for a new variant of an existing flu, that has mutated.

The proccess, epidemiology and possibility of genetic drift etc is the same,

[rickinyorkshire]

GP dies from suspected Swine Flu:

BBC NEWS | UK | GP suffering from swine flu dies

[cupcakes aka dd]

Everyone be careful. Don't rush into this.

The new H1N1 (swine flu) vaccine is going to be made by
Novartis. It will probably be made in PER.C6 cells (human
retina cells) and contain MF59, a potentially debilitating
adjuvant.
MF-59 is an oil-based adjuvant primarily composed of
squalene, .
Squalene in humans at 10-20 ppb (parts per billion) leads to severe immune
responses, such as autoimmune arthritis and lupus. Also it may have contributed to Gulf War syndrome.

It is no worse than ordinary flu and the statisitics are no different.

No one is injecting this into my family.

[gavan]

Sounds worrying but do you have a link to the info?

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by cupcakes aka dd

Everyone be careful. Don't rush into this.

The new H1N1 (swine flu) vaccine is going to be made by
Novartis. It will probably be made in PER.C6 cells (human
retina cells) and contain MF59, a potentially debilitating
adjuvant.
MF-59 is an oil-based adjuvant primarily composed of
squalene, .
Squalene in humans at 10-20 ppb (parts per billion) leads to severe immune
responses, such as autoimmune arthritis and lupus. Also it may have contributed to Gulf War syndrome.

It is no worse than ordinary flu and the statisitics are no different.

No one is injecting this into my family.

Well its up to you as the MMR vacince proved to be rubbish as well

[Buckster]

I'm always TOTALLY pro vaccinations

Newsmax.com - Vaccine May Be More Dangerous Than Swine Flu

made uncomfortable reading though !

Originally Posted by kopchoir

Well its up to you as the MMR vacince proved to be rubbish as well

[Dunwa]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

Well its up to you as the MMR vacince proved to be rubbish as well

Well the MMR vacine proved to be very effective, it was all the hyped up rabid media around it that was rubbish

[Dunwa]

Originally Posted by Buckster

I'm always TOTALLY pro vaccinations

Newsmax.com - Vaccine May Be More Dangerous Than Swine Flu

made uncomfortable reading though !

From the article :

So, what is this deadly ingredient? It is called squalene, a type of oil. The Chiron company, maker of the deadly anthrax vaccine, makes an adjuvant called MF-59 which contains two main ingredients of concern—squalene and gp120. A number of studies have shown that squalene can trigger all of the above-mentioned autoimmune diseases when injected.


The MF-59 adjuvant has been used in several vaccines. These vaccines, including tetanus and diphtheria, are the same vaccines frequently associated with adverse reactions. .

I wonder how many of us typing here today have had the tetanus and diphtheria jabs with no adverse reaction.

[leedswillprevai]

Over my dead body am I being forcibly vaccinated with anything and if it's very disturbing that anyone could champion the idea of them forcing people into doing this. Besides the fact that I don't want to be a guinea pig for essentially an experimental vaccine. Now if you have the vaccine, decide you need it, then why should it concern you that I don't have it? either you are immune or you are not. Now even if every person in the UK was forced and successfully forced to have this, then it still wouldn't make you any safer, what about the admittance from the home office of not knowing how many illegal immigrants there are in this country, what about the open borders?

As for sinister, read this John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, says: Forced abortions and mass sterilization needed to save the planet

Not my words, not my opinion, his words, his opinions. I am not being a willing subject of their eugenics programme.

[IronGiant]

I suggest our luddites go and find a cave to hide in for the next six months...

Dave

[leedswillprevai]

If you wish to call people who object to forcibly having a needle stuck in their arm a luddite, then cool, I am a luddite thanks