[Snatch]

Every now and again you hear a discussion with regards to anti-social behaviour, which is then linked to alcohol in some form or another..
I 've always wondered why not just increase the age from 18 to 21 (as they have in the US)..
I know this won't completely stop the flow of alcohol to the underage but may help to make a difference.
The government would also stand to lose millions in tax (from the thousands of students), not to mention all others companies involved in this trade..
So my question is, do you think this will/could ever be enforced?

[hornydragon]

They change dthe age for tobacco so dont see why not but why buy beer when drug dealers will sell to any one with cash. Solution? Legalise and tax all drugs they have only been illegal since 1900 ish befor ethis Opium dens rife across london and we went to war with china to make sure we had enough cheap opium, only since mass munitions construction has alcohol been more closely controlled prior to that open to all.

[johntheexpat]

A sober Students Union.

That would be brilliant!

[FZR400RRSP]

I've advocated raising it to 21 for ages.
People tend to mature a lot between 18 and 21, IMO.
It would lead to less mess/hassle in towns of an evening, I'm convinced of it.

[Kebabhead]

Originally Posted by cheekyboy_123

I 've always wondered why not just increase the age from 18 to 21 (as they have in the US)..
I know this won't completely stop the flow of alcohol to the underage but may help to make a difference.

So my question is, do you think this will/could ever be enforced?

Kind of like answers your question

[loz]

I think its a good idea too.

Though there will always be ways round it, but the key thing is that kids wouldn't be able to drink legally in the pub/club and then take it out on everything in the street when they leave.

Instead they will still drink (you can never stop it), but it won't be anywhere near as much, and it will take place in private at parties and such.

I think it would help greatly to clean up our high streets of an evening.

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by bowfer

People tend to mature a lot between 18 and 21, IMO.

A lot of the hassle is from older people 40's + some of the sites definately are!

Living in the "claimed binge drinking capital of europe" you see some sites! there is some hassle but age is not the main issue!

[fortean]

If the law recognises someone as an adult at 18 then I don't see why some adults should be more restricted than others.

Changing the age limit could just increase the average age of adults that cause problems due to alcohol. Until they start consuming it they can't really learn how to manage their consumption properly.

What really helps is education. It can either be gained from experience or passed on by parents. People can start to learn, on their own, at 18 at the moment. Forcing them to wait until they're 21 means they have more money to spend on alcohol than they would at 18.

I would expect that are also many more under 21's that drink sensibly than don't.

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by hornydragon

but age is not the main issue!

I don't agree.

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by fortean

Forcing them to wait until they're 21 means they have more money to spend on alcohol than they would at 18.

Yes, but it also means they're more mature.
18 year olds would drink battery acid, if they thought it was cheap and it impressed their peers.
A 21 year old is far less likely to behave like that, IMO.

As for 'education'.
Seriously, what more can be done?

I'd also outlaw alcopops.
Booze should taste like booze, not like lemonade.
There are mixers, of course.
But unless you drown a vodka and coke, you taste the vodka.
You can't taste any vodka in a Smirnoff ice.
I could give one of those to my 6YO and she'd like it.
That's wrong.

[mrapbp]

So you can go to war and die for your country, get married and have kids, watch films with violence and hardcore sex but you cant have a beer..........

Not sure its the anwer tbh, raises to many other questions!

[sniffer66]

Originally Posted by mrapbp

So you can go to war and die for your country, get married and have kids, watch films with violence and hardcore sex but you cant have a beer..........

Not sure its the anwer tbh, raises to many other questions!

No-one should be allowed to get married and have kids younger than 21 quite frankly !

[loz]

Originally Posted by mrapbp

So you can go to war and die for your country, get married and have kids, watch films with violence and hardcore sex but you cant have a beer..

Perhaps there are good reasons to raise them to 21 too.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by cheekyboy_123

I 've always wondered why not just increase the age from 18 to 21 (as they have in the US)..
I know this won't completely stop the flow of alcohol to the underage but may help to make a difference.

Well it will not because if you was so inclined to purchase alcohol for secondary-school age teenagers then a mere age rise will not change that as they will simply find somebody slightly older - plenty of those around. And everyone knows the newsagents and off-licenses less inclined to ask for ID. Supermarkets will every time if in doubt. But all the same if you are a current university student showing your ID then you are legally entitled to purchase alcohol anyway so I am not sure what your argument is

And on another point, if you are referring to university age, then it will only be under-age under your proposal precisely because its been raised to 21. Interesting fudging of the line there

What I will say is that its a combination of upbringing and societal attitude in my opinion. We all know that there is a prevalent belief that getting ****** is equated to having a good time. That may be so in some instances, but every weekend I would doubt. Gaining maturity is not of course limited to alcohol and certainly not everyone grows out of the habit of getting ****** and doing stupid things. Such an approach is not necessarily to do with your upbringing and peers and might simply be the kind of person you are

For those who are attending or have attended university, we all know the people who lived a sheltered life and so let loose with a sprinkling of freedom you will find them downing Smirnoff before heading out. Whereas everybody else got over that years ago. You can go to the pub like a civilised person and drink normally whereas they will be paying over the top prices for spirit mixes. I am not of course referring to anybody I am living with. Not at all

On a side note I would say you have to be careful with your definition of anti-social. Having sex on a street is anti-social everywhere. Sitting on steps with cheap WKD would not raise eyebrows in the part of Manchester I know, but in a middle-class area in the south of the country people could not call the police fast enough

[fortean]

Originally Posted by bowfer

Yes, but it also means they're more mature.
18 year olds would drink battery acid, if they thought it was cheap and it impressed their peers.
A 21 year old is far less likely to behave like that, IMO.

That may be because the 21 year olds that you are basing your assumption on have been allowed to take responsibility for their own life from the age of 18. If you remove some of that responsibility until they are 21 then there could be unforeseen consequences.

And why 21? Why not 30 or 40? What really is the difference in a person on their 21st birthday compared to the day before. An age at which a person is considered an adult was chosen and is in use. That in itself is an arbitrary age but it's the one we use. Why do you want to acknowledge someone as an adult and then treat them as a child?

[Kebabhead]

I take it all those who agree to up the limit are 21 and over

Wonder if we have any members aged 21 or under who could comment

[loz]

Originally Posted by fortean

That may be because the 21 year olds that you are basing your assumption on have been allowed to take responsibility for their own life from the age of 18. If you remove some of that responsibility until they are 21 then there could be unforeseen consequences.

And why 21? Why not 30 or 40? What really is the difference in a person on their 21st birthday compared to the day before. An age at which a person is considered an adult was chosen and is in use. That in itself is an arbitrary age but it's the one we use. Why do you want to acknowledge someone as an adult and then treat them as a child?

So lets reduce it to 16 then.

What's so special about 18...

[fortean]

Originally Posted by loz

So lets reduce it to 16 then.

What's so special about 18...

Nothing really, apart from the fact that the law considers you an adult. I don't think this thread is about changing the age at which a person is considered an adult though. It's about whether an existing right for a group of adults should be taken away from them.

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by sniffer66

No-one should be allowed to get married and have kids younger than 21 quite frankly !

No-one should WANT to get married and have kids younger than 21...

Shouldn't even need laws in place for that


As for drinking, like anyone under 18 cares what age it is, the same will be said for anyone under 21 if it changes.

[Snatch]

Originally Posted by mrapbp

So you can go to war and die for your country, get married and have kids, watch films with violence and hardcore sex but you cant have a beer..........

Not sure its the anwer tbh, raises to many other questions!

You can also be sent to war by a government you aren't allowed to vote for till your 18?? There always going to be inconsistencies..

[fortean]

What do you think happens to a person between the day before their birthday and their birthday?

Perhaps there should be a license issued that allows you to buy alcohol as there is to get married.

And both of them should only be issued after you have passed an examination/test of your psychological and physical ability for the license in question.

Then we can all apply for an alcohol license and only those deemed suitable, regardless of age, will get one.

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by Iccz

No-one should WANT to get married and have kids younger than 21...

Shouldn't even need laws in place for that


As for drinking, like anyone under 18 cares what age it is, the same will be said for anyone under 21 if it changes.

In the states you cant buy a beer in a bar until 21 yet you can drive a car on the road on your own at 14 (florida) 16 rest of the US IIRC You can marry and have kids at 18 in most states some its 21 so at least you can have beer/wine on your wedding day!

In some state you can marry under 15 with consent of parents and a judge!!!



It is far more about personal responsibility than age in my opinion.

[Snatch]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Well it will not because if you was so inclined to purchase alcohol for secondary-school age teenagers then a mere age rise will not change that as they will simply find somebody slightly older - plenty of those around. And everyone knows the newsagents and off-licenses less inclined to ask for ID. Supermarkets will every time if in doubt. But all the same if you are a current university student showing your ID then you are legally entitled to purchase alcohol anyway so I am not sure what your argument is

And on another point, if you are referring to university age, then it will only be under-age under your proposal precisely because its been raised to 21. Interesting fudging of the line there

What I will say is that its a combination of upbringing and societal attitude in my opinion. We all know that there is a prevalent belief that getting ****** is equated to having a good time. That may be so in some instances, but every weekend I would doubt. Gaining maturity is not of course limited to alcohol and certainly not everyone grows out of the habit of getting ****** and doing stupid things. Such an approach is not necessarily to do with your upbringing and peers and might simply be the kind of person you are

For those who are attending or have attended university, we all know the people who lived a sheltered life and so let loose with a sprinkling of freedom you will find them downing Smirnoff before heading out. Whereas everybody else got over that years ago. You can go to the pub like a civilised person and drink normally whereas they will be paying over the top prices for spirit mixes. I am not of course referring to anybody I am living with. Not at all

On a side note I would say you have to be careful with your definition of anti-social. Having sex on a street is anti-social everywhere. Sitting on steps with cheap WKD would not raise eyebrows in the part of Manchester I know, but in a middle-class area in the south of the country people could not call the police fast enough

Agree to a certain extent, but then if this were to be introduced legally, it would also need to be enforced. That would mean harsh consequences for those caught and not sobering up time in a police cell..
With regards to age, IMO should be 21 across the board, uni or not.

As far as i know, there are no consequences for minors (under 16) caught with alcohol. At worst parents being being notified. Stiffer laws again in IMO would mean parents being prosecuted, off licenses being shut down etc..

[Steven]

You cannot impose any fine because if you are at school then invariably your parents are paying it

If it is a case of bad parenting then your aim is to encourage good parenting. Well what if said child does not do drugs, smoke, sex or any other vice but they like drinking cheap alco-pops with their friends? Then again you are back to square one

In any case punishing the parent does not necessarily punish the child. You want somebody to learn that drinking in moderation is a good thing. You want them to learn that you should drink at your own pace as everyone's body is different. I would not be so sure that a harsh extreme would do that. Usually what is prohibited becomes even more desirable. Saying that I bet teenagers having paedophile laws used against them by District Attorneys in the US for "sexting" are not doing it again anytime soon

[Confucius]

I can't see any negatives in raising the drinking age to 21. Sure, it will affect those who drink sensibly but it won't harm anything or anyone by doing so.

[Kebabhead]

Originally Posted by Confucius

I can't see any negatives in raising the drinking age to 21. Sure, it will affect those who drink sensibly but it won't harm anything or anyone by doing so.

Wind the clock back to when you were 18.

If the government upped the limit based on what you said what would your reaction be as an 18 year old???

[mrapbp]

Yes but I am not sure that is too many inconsistencies. You can do pretty much everything else but you cant drink.............. I dont think it could or should work and I dont think it would really solve any problems anyway.

Originally Posted by cheekyboy_123

You can also be sent to war by a government you aren't allowed to vote for till your 18?? There always going to be inconsistencies..

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by Kebabhead

Wind the clock back to when you were 18.

If the government upped the limit based on what you said what would your reaction be as an 18 year old???

My reaction as an 18 year old would be, damn I've had 2 years of under-age drinking already now I have to wait another 3, oh well, win some/lose some.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by Kebabhead

If the government upped the limit based on what you said what would your reaction be as an 18 year old???

Can legally have sex, legally marry, legally buy a house and apply for a mortgage

Originally Posted by Iccz

No-one should WANT to get married and have kids younger than 21...

Shouldn't even need laws in place for that


As for drinking, like anyone under 18 cares what age it is, the same will be said for anyone under 21 if it changes.

I've read some funny things in GC but this one is right up there, to be telling people when they should want to get married

...

Anyone who believes raising the age will reduce anti-social behaviour are missing the realities. Its not going to make a jot of difference to under-age drinking. If you are asserting that school-age persons are drinking and out causing trouble - well then 18 or 21 is meaningless. All you get is whatever university age persons get up to being shifted from column B to column A

Prohibition does not work. When you start secondary school at 11, within a week you know where to get hold of cigarettes and alcohol if you are so inclined. Prohibition does not work because they tried that experiment in America for over a decade about a lifetime ago

[Kebabhead]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Can legally have sex, legally marry, legally buy a house and apply for a mortgage

Only one of those will be on an 18 year olds mind