[Dancook]

Hi all,

My parents just rang to tell me about their misfortune with the car, it appears to be an engine failure which has left their car for scrap.

It is 18th months since they purchased the car from a dealer, but the car is only just over 4 years old.

Is there anything they can do?

I know about the sales of goods act, but as it's second hand I'm not sure where the responsibility lies.

edit. Mum mentioned they haven't even finished paying for it yet, so does this make a difference? does it belong to someone else? which means they don't have to pay the rest? i don't know.

[Miyazaki]

Originally Posted by Dancook

Hi all,

My parents just rang to tell me about their misfortune with the car, it appears to be an engine failure which has left their car for scrap.

It is 18th months since they purchased the car from a dealer, but the car is only just over 4 years old.

Is there anything they can do?

I know about the sales of goods act, but as it's second hand I'm not sure where the responsibility lies.

edit. Mum mentioned they haven't even finished paying for it yet, so does this make a difference? does it belong to someone else? which means they don't have to pay the rest? i don't know.

Take it to a garage and get a new engine, if it is economical to do so?

The car is owned by whoever lent them the money until your parents have paid it off in full, so if they don't pay it the bank or company will take them to court.

Try phoning the citizen's advice bureau if you are really unsure what to do. I can't see how the SoGA applies in this situation mate.

[Dancook]

Originally Posted by Miyazaki

Take it to a garage and get a new engine, if it is economical to do so?

The car is owned by whoever lent them the money until your parents have paid it off in full, so if they don't pay it the bank or company will take them to court.

Try phoning the citizen's advice bureau if you are really unsure what to do. I can't see how the SoGA applies in this situation mate.

Thanks,

I don't believe it is economical to replace the engine from what they've told me, they're currently looking at buying another car.

I did suggest they phone CAB to see if there was anything they could do.

When I was working at a computer company, I heard something about customers telling the finance company they would not pay because the computer did not work. I do not know if they were legally allowed to do that, or what the reprecussions would be, but I assume from what you said there is no such option to do this?

[Decadence]

what kind of car is it?

[Azzin]

The only way for any recourse for your parents (if there is any) would be to get an independant mechanical engineer's assessment of it.

That way, you would have proof if (for example) it was a result of poor servicing etc.

Your parents would need to pay for that and then take whoever to court to recover all their costs and get the repairs done free of charge (if it turned out to be someone's responsibility).

HTH.

[Dancook]

Originally Posted by Decadence

what kind of car is it?

Renault Espace

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ce_black_r.jpg

[Azzin]

Originally Posted by Dancook

Renault Espace

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ce_black_r.jpg

Does it have a full (Renault) service history?

[Dancook]

Originally Posted by Azzin

The only way for any recourse for your parents (if there is any) would be to get an independant mechanical engineer's assessment of it.

That way, you would have proof if (for example) it was a result of poor servicing etc.

Your parents would need to pay for that and then take whoever to court to recover all their costs and get the repairs done free of charge (if it turned out to be someone's responsibility).

HTH.

Thanks, I know the engine gets a lot of wear and tear, but I suppose he might find an inherant fault with the engine which could be the responsbility of Renault.

As you see it's a Renault Espace people carrier, I would assume no one has abused the engine in this car.

[Dancook]

Originally Posted by Azzin

Does it have a full (Renault) service history?

I would need to find out, what are the options if yes / no ? thanks

[Decadence]

Ouch, yes that won't be cheap to fix. A new engine from Renault will be a couple of grand at least I reckon, plus the man hours to replace the old one! shame the engine bay didn't catch fire when it broke (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). You could always try to source a second hand one and get an independent to fit it. What exactly has failed with the engine anyway? Did it overheat or something?

[Azzin]

Originally Posted by Dancook

I would need to find out, what are the options if yes / no ? thanks

Well....

If it has a full Renault service history, then you might have a good case to take up with Renault (depending on the current mileage).

You could have a case of premature engine failure that should not be expected on a fully serviced engine.

[fencer90]

It wasnt anything to do with Water was it .......The engines have an air intake on the side of the engine bay close to the ground..... ingress of water is a known problem ..

[Decadence]

Originally Posted by Azzin

Well....

If it has a full Renault service history, then you might have a good case to take up with Renault (depending on the current mileage).

You could have a case of premature engine failure that should not be expected on a fully serviced engine.

It depends how it failed though, if the coolant levels were not kept topped up and it overheated it wouldn't be the garage's fault for example.

[Azzin]

Originally Posted by Decadence

It depends how it failed though, if the coolant levels were not kept topped up and it overheated it wouldn't be the garage's fault for example.

Agreed and understood, which is why I suggested an independant engineer's inspection and that the OP's parents might then have a case.

[Dancook]

Originally Posted by Decadence

Ouch, yes that won't be cheap to fix. A new engine from Renault will be a couple of grand at least I reckon, plus the man hours to replace the old one! shame the engine bay didn't catch fire when it broke (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). You could always try to source a second hand one and get an independent to fit it. What exactly has failed with the engine anyway? Did it overheat or something?

I don't know, I only spoke to my mum she had a STOP symbol light up, so she pulled over. Spoke to Dad who suggested she get it home if she can, engine started ok so she drove it home. it gave up the ghost when nearing home.

[Dancook]

Thanks for all your replies, if you have anything else to add i'll get back to you over the weekend as i've just been called out! thanks

[Azzin]

I should also mention that I worked in the motor trade for 20+ years, started out life as a YTS trainee mechanic and worked my way up to Service Manager level (inc 7 years working for Renault).

Ended my career with Mercedes Benz, but after 20+ years in the industry, I do have a good understanding of how things like this work.

[Decadence]

Originally Posted by Dancook

I don't know, I only spoke to my mum she had a STOP symbol light up, so she pulled over. Spoke to Dad who suggested she get it home if she can, engine started ok so she drove it home. it gave up the ghost when nearing home.

Nightmare, exactly same as the customer we had recently who knackered his Grand Scenic. His had run out of coolant when the light came on, he stopped and then it started again and he drove it home, overheated and blew the head gasket, warping the cylinder head in the process...he ended up junking it too.

[oldnewbie]

I find it hard to comprehend that a 4 year old Renault would be scrapped because the engine has gone, If all else fails I would take it to an independent garage and see how much a rebuild or recon engine would be

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by Azzin

I should also mention that I worked in the motor trade for 20+ years, started out life as a YTS trainee mechanic and worked my way up to Service Manager level (inc 7 years working for Renault).

Ended my career with Mercedes Benz, but after 20+ years in the industry, I do have a good understanding of how things like this work.

So whats the matter with it then?

[DVD-Man]

Sadly there is no comeback for things like this, if you expect to drive it between servicing and never lift the bonnet then your asking for trouble like this.

I wouldn't bother about getting any inspection and just find out whats really wrong and weigh it up againast the cost of a similar replacement.

Don't mean to sound scathing but these things happen.

Liam

[Ed Selley]

Originally Posted by thfccambs

So whats the matter with it then?

Its French. Ultimately everything else is a detail.

[Flimber]

We're looking at Espace/Grand Espaces currently and the 1.9/2.2 Diesel engines are apparently very problematic (to say the least). Turbo failure above 50k miles is very common and it can ruin the engine. Plus, service intervals of 18k miles on the diesels is seen as far too far apart leading to clogs on certain valves. Again, it can be ruinous. You can read tales like yours at Renault Forums where you will learn that a new engine is nearer £6k and owners have had varying degrees of success at getting Renault to subsidise that cost. Ultimately, if you are interested, all talk of class action lawsuits fizzles out as - practically speaking - people need replacement cars before any such case would ever come to court and they just move on. Though obviously not to another Renault.

Incidentally, after reading up on the 2.2 Diesels, we've been looking at the 3.0 litre versions as they use a Nissan/Isuzu engine which is supposedly a lot better than the smaller Renault ones.

HTH,
Mike.

[Decadence]

Originally Posted by DVD-Man

Sadly there is no comeback for things like this, if you expect to drive it between servicing and never lift the bonnet then your asking for trouble like this.

I wouldn't bother about getting any inspection and just find out whats really wrong and weigh it up againast the cost of a similar replacement.

Don't mean to sound scathing but these things happen.

Liam

It might not have been an issue caused by not lifting the bonnet.

[Azzin]

Originally Posted by Decadence

It might not have been an issue caused by not lifting the bonnet.

Which is exactly why it needs the independant engineer's inspection carrying out that I suggested originally.

Until that's done, everything is speculation and pointless.

[Azzin]

I've just had a re read of this thread....

Originally Posted by Dancook

I don't know, I only spoke to my mum she had a STOP symbol light up, so she pulled over.

Good move.

Originally Posted by Dancook

Spoke to Dad who suggested she get it home if she can, engine started ok so she drove it home.

Bad move.

The clue was in the STOP symbol, it's not there for fun.

Originally Posted by Dancook

it gave up the ghost when nearing home.

I can't imagine why...

I don't mean to sound harsh, but STOP doesn't mean drive it home and potentially risk further damage that you can then try to blame on someone/something else.

You may find that by driving it your mum in fact has caused the fatal failure.

Stopping and calling out AA/RAC/Green Flag etc and getting them to diagnose/tow the car is what should have happened.

If a warning light came on, it could indicate a number of things (the handbook will tell you what that STOP light is connected to), so we need a bit more background info to assist further.

No harshness meant, I don't wish ill fortune on anyone, but having been on the end of abuse from people who have clearly driven their cars with a stop light on but want to argue and deny it (we can tell how long the light has been on you know ), I just don't have an awful lot of sympathy for people who ignore obvious warnings.

You have not paid full and its with you for 18 months?