[Dom Robinson]

I've just bought one of these and plan to use it on a 14" 4:3 TV, and whether I set it up for a 'normal' or 'widescreen' TV makes no difference because the same options are available via the 'wide' button:

a. 4:3 centre cut-out
b. 16:9 anamorphic
c. Auto (which does nothing different beyond the top two)

Hence, if I want a letterbox 16:9 image, I have to select 'b' and use the TV's own 'wide' button which vertically squashes an anamorphic image. However, this isn't a great option since the TV remote's so old that it requires a very hard push and needs to be done every single time the TV's turned on.

Anyone know if there is a letterbox 16:9 option for this box, please? It'll be really dumb if it doesn't have it, since not every 4:3 TV will have an option to vertically squash the picture.

Thanks.

[LV426]

If the digibox and TV were connected using a SCART cable, and option (b) set on the box, then the TV should react to a switching signal on one of the SCART pins and do the anamorphic squash for you automatically when required.

Failing that, then I suspect you may need a different digibox. Or a new 16x9 TV (!) Or persist with your manual procedure.

[Geofbob]

Originally Posted by Dom Robinson

I've just bought one of these and plan to use it on a 14" 4:3 TV, and whether I set it up for a 'normal' or 'widescreen' TV makes no difference because the same options are available via the 'wide' button:

a. 4:3 centre cut-out
b. 16:9 anamorphic
c. Auto (which does nothing different beyond the top two)

Hence, if I want a letterbox 16:9 image, I have to select 'b' and use the TV's own 'wide' button which vertically squashes an anamorphic image. However, this isn't a great option since the TV remote's so old that it requires a very hard push and needs to be done every single time the TV's turned on.

Anyone know if there is a letterbox 16:9 option for this box, please? It'll be really dumb if it doesn't have it, since not every 4:3 TV will have an option to vertically squash the picture.

Thanks.

You're being rather optimistic in expecting a £20 box to have "hidden" functions over & above those in its spec etc.

But isn't it normal with a 4:3 screen simply to use the Settings menu on the box to set to 4:3, & let the box do the rest, without any need to use the Wide button on the remote? I think that button is for those folk with 16:9 screens who don't like black bars on their screens when a 4:3 programme is on, & want to fill the screen - ie their taste is the exact opposite of yours

[Dom Robinson]

Originally Posted by LV426

If the digibox and TV were connected using a SCART cable, and option (b) set on the box, then the TV should react to a switching signal on one of the SCART pins and do the anamorphic squash for you automatically when required.

Is it RGB that makes it do that rather than just being a SCART connection? It's a cheapo 14" portable that's several years old so probably wouldn't know what RGB is if it crept up on it.

Failing that, then I suspect you may need a different digibox. Or a new 16x9 TV (!) Or persist with your manual procedure.

Yep, I'll have to do the manual thing in the meantime. I might end up using the Alba in another room and use the Digihome in there as the subtitles problem (rectified with a quick unplugging and a bit of faffing about - since it keeps wanting to then do an EPG update which takes forever and it does this even if it's only just done one, so I have to interrupt it) is the lesser of two evils.

[Dom Robinson]

Originally Posted by Geofbob

You're being rather optimistic in expecting a £20 box to have "hidden" functions over & above those in its spec etc.

I was just a bit confused with it since every other digibox I've used, even a cheapo one, has always had a letterbox option.

But isn't it normal with a 4:3 screen simply to use the Settings menu on the box to set to 4:3, & let the box do the rest, without any need to use the Wide button on the remote? I think that button is for those folk with 16:9 screens who don't like black bars on their screens when a 4:3 programme is on, & want to fill the screen - ie their taste is the exact opposite of yours

The 'wide' function on the Digihome (and a previous Alba) box does as you describe - it flicks between 4:3, letterbox 14:9 and letterbox 16:9 options, and only does nothing when it's set to anamorphic 16:9 (obviously), but here it flicks between 4:3 centre cut-out and 16:9 anamorphic. For a moment, it was a case of (puzzled stare at the new box) "Is it me?"

[LV426]

Originally Posted by Dom Robinson

Is it RGB that makes it do that rather than just being a SCART connection?

No. Any SCART connection should do it. One of the many pins in a SCART connector carries a switching voltage which should direct the TV to the aspect ratio appropriate for the signal. In other words, it's not an attribute of the type of video signal; is not embedded within the video signal* (etc). It's discrete, via a separate core in the SCART cable.
---------------------
* There is also an embedded widescreen switching signal, but this would work (if at all) regardless of how the two are connected - and it evidently isn't. I'd have to guess that either the digibox isn't placing it in the video signal as it should, or the TV isn't trained to recognise it; so ignoring that one for the purposes of this question.

[Dom Robinson]

Since I last posted here, one of the boxes developed a fault such that it kept searching for software updates when it felt like (there was no way to turn this off in the terrible menus) and it kept going back to 4Music (or whatever came next when I tried to delete that channel) which was no good if I was recording another channel.

So, I took that back today and got an Alba CDVB4 instead. It has a menu system similar to that of my Icecrypt T5000, so that's a good start as it's got a letterbox mode

However, it's got a weird problem with the letterbox mode that's making me think

The first image shows a 16:9 anamorphic widescreen image on the 14" portable TV, and the second is the letterbox equivalent. However, you'll notice that in letterbox mode it crops the sides a bit as if it's made it look more like a 14:9 image than 16:9.

Yes, any 14" portable TV will have some overscan so that's why I chose comparable images, as the letterbox one should have the same picture information but letterboxed (ie. without cropping). Does anyone know why it would do this, please? Thanks.

Either way, I'll stick with this box as it's better than the previous one but this is a baffling problem.

[Dom Robinson]

Scratch that. I went back to it a bit later when making dinner and it reacted properly to the 16:9 anamorphic setting and letterboxes it correctly on the 14" portable. Woohoo!!

[Dom Robinson]

Actually, scratch the above post! I switched the TV on this morning and it was still on C4 (after being on C4 News last night - when it showed correctly), but now it was showing a 4:3 programme, so then when I went to BBC1 it gave the letterbox problem described above.

I switched the TV off and on but still the same. I wonder if it's a C4 thing that made it work properly, since I know they were the only channel to set 16:9 flags properly on analogue (something I no longer have access to, which will be wonderful - not - when the clocks go forward and everything that used to change automatically no longer will because there no analogue signal for them to work off!)

If anyone has an answer to my above problem, that would be much appreciated, ta.

[Dom Robinson]

Right, I've looked into this more now and it appears that some channels just appear in letterbox 16:9, while others appear only in letterbox 14:9 and there's no reason for it and also no option to change that, while in letterbox mode!

I made a list of as many as I could (some channels were showing 4:3 at the time, and do a lot, so I couldn't really check with those):

14:9 channels:

BBC1
BBC2
ITV1
Fiver
ITV2+1
CBBC
CBeebies
CITV
BBC News
Sky Sports News

16:9 channels:

C4
Five (odd that Fiver goes 14:9 yet Five is 16:9)
Sky 3
C4+1
More4
QVC
Dave
Bid TV
Price-drop
Quest
BBC Parliament (same oddity like the Five/Fiver difference)
Sky News

I think I'll need to email Alba and see if I can get an explanation out of them as this is ridiculous, and I can't think why this would even happen.

If anyone can help, please let me know. Thanks.

[Rodders53]

It is possible that some broadcasters are sending Active Format Descriptors (AFDs) that the Alba receiver is responding to to give 14:9 safe pictures on a 4:3 TV?

This is how the BBC typically transmit 16:9 pictures on analogue (as 14:9).

Just a theory. I'm not fully conversant with AFDs. I'm sure a google might enlighten me.

[Dom Robinson]

Originally Posted by Rodders53

It is possible that some broadcasters are sending Active Format Descriptors (AFDs) that the Alba receiver is responding to to give 14:9 safe pictures on a 4:3 TV?

This is how the BBC typically transmit 16:9 pictures on analogue (as 14:9).

Just a theory. I'm not fully conversant with AFDs. I'm sure a google might enlighten me.

Yep, I was wondering if something like that might be happening, or if it was dependent on the mux for the respective channels, as it's mostly affecting blocks of the same respective corporations.

I just tried looking up alba.co.uk and alba.com to see if I could email them direct but can't find a page for them. Does anyone know of one, please? Ta.

[Adrian_F]

Try Argos....

Argos buys Alba and Bush brandnames - Pocket-lint

[Dom Robinson]

Originally Posted by Adrian_F

Try Argos....

Argos buys Alba and Bush brandnames - Pocket-lint

Thanks for that. I've just dropped them an email via their website. I bought it from Argos but I didn't want to ask the query in-store for fear of getting a lot of blank faces. Given the service I've had from their customer services before, I'm wondering why I'll ever bother with Argos again - it's clear I'm getting what I'm paying for with their digiboxes!

In late 2004, I bought two 28" 16:9 TVs that were reduced from £200 to £160 in an offer and they were perfect for a main room that doesn't get used much, and also in the bedroom. However, apart from the delivery being late, their site said the TVs would be delivered to "a room of your choice". Clearly the delivery men took it as 'their choice' as they dumped the huge boxes in the front room (I was in the back as they were bringing the first one in as I was making sure things were clear for them to get back there - and then I just saw them dump the second one when I came back to the front room), thus stopping me from physically getting out of my front door to remonstrate with them. By the time I had, they'd buggered off.

Back in those days they didn't have email so I had to write to them. Tried this twice before I got sick of the fob offs as they just don't care. Argos really are the new Dixons Stores Group. Do Matalan sell Freeview boxes? I might just get one from there. At least if I go after work, I don't have to pay to park there and, unlike Argos, they employ a few fitties

[Dom Robinson]

A quick update. I'm not getting very far with this. Argos have gone back to their technical dept a couple of times but all they've done is come up with "check the ratio settings as per the manual" - although it doesn't go into any detail and I've pointed out there's no manual 14:9/16:9 switch like some Freeview boxes have.

It'd take quite some time to relate the whole problem to them over the phone, and I spend enough time on the phone at work so I try and avoid it when I get home, not to mention the cost of the call. If the technical people can't actually reply by email then I think I'll just take it back. It might only be worth talking to them on the phone if I didn't think that my Mum's cats had more technical knowledge than the average Argos employee.

[Dom Robinson]

BTW, I had a look at it during BBC1's screening of 16:9 film "In Dreams" last night and it was proper 16:9 then. Looks like it's definitely an AFD thing. Why they can't just leave it like that ALL the time, god alone knows. Moron broadcasters!

[Rodders53]

Originally Posted by Dom Robinson

Why they can't just leave it like that ALL the time, god alone knows. Moron broadcasters!

Because they use the AFDs internally in the playout systems with Aspect Ratio Converters to provide the correct pictures for analogue broadcasts.

TV programmes are made in 16:9 with 'protect 4:3' (e.g. Sport) where the cameramen keep the action in the middle and viewers on 4:3 sets get a full picture.
Most TV programmes are 'protect 14:9' so 4:3 set viewers don't have a very narrow letterbox.
Films aren't usually shot with any 'protection' so are shown in full 16:9 letterbox.

You are rather unusual in preferring a letterbox on your 4:3 TV.

[Geofbob]

Originally Posted by Rodders53

You are rather unusual in preferring a letterbox on your 4:3 TV.

Especially -if I may say so - as it's a 14" screen.