[Ray_Woodward]

BBC's plea for anti-piracy measures on Freeview is turned down.


BBC's plea for anti-piracy measures on Freeview is turned down | Media | guardian.co.uk

[Geofbob]

Will this impact on the launch date of Freeview HD PVRs & recorders? And if encryption isn't allowed eventually, will it mean that distributors won't allow the BBC to broadcast HD movies & similar HD material, for fear of piracy?

[Starburst]

If the US distributors and for the most part this will be an import issue (movies and other genres) enforce exactly the same conditions on the US market as they are keen to do in the UK then I won't complain, much.

However they don't have a chance of imposing such draconian DRM onto the US cable, Dsat and OTA markets yet we are seen as a soft touch thanks to the nanny state and weak broadcasters too dependent on imported content.

Lets be honest, so called piracy of HD will not be any different to the last few decades of SD home copying which didn't seem to harm DVD sales or second/third run rights as seen on PAY channels.
Blu-ray have tried some ridiculous DRM measures and they have all failed, learn the lessen and forget expensive licensed technologies to limit the paying viewers options or lose them forever.

Originally Posted by Geofbob

Will this impact on the launch date of Freeview HD PVRs & recorders? And if encryption isn't allowed eventually, will it mean that distributors won't allow the BBC to broadcast HD movies & similar HD material, for fear of piracy?

I doubt it will as DRM via HDCP is inherent in the system and can be activated at anytime they want, the basic technology is built in. ENcryption isn't the issue (ala SKY), it's the ability for the broadcaster to set a flag that prevents a Blu-ray recorder from recording the digital data perfectly or perhaps only limit the recording playback to the machine it was recorded on.
Alas we've seen with SKY the removal of Component and Freesat has blocked HD over component and even RGB scart when watching HD (at least that's what I've read) and that is all distributor lead or at least pre-emptive pacification of content sources.

[Stephen Neal]

Given the Freesat EPG (which AIUI used the same approach) was reverse engineered in short order (initially by open source stuff like MythTV - but now included in a number of non-Freesat receivers like the Fortecstars), does the BBC really believe the same approached used for SI on Freeview HD wouldn't be similarly reverse engineered?

It might be more difficult - but as there is no encryption, just Huffman encoding, going on - it surely would only be a matter of time?

Is it a question more of being seen to do something, even if the something you are doing is largely ineffectual?

Other countries - like the US, Sweden - have no DRM on their OTA HD stuff that I know of. The US tried to introduce the "Broadcast Flag" and it was roundly defeated.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Stephen Neal

Given the Freesat EPG (which AIUI used the same approach) was reverse engineered in short order (initially by open source stuff like MythTV - but now included in a number of non-Freesat receivers like the Fortecstars), does the BBC really believe the same approached used for SI on Freeview HD wouldn't be similarly reverse engineered?

It might be more difficult - but as there is no encryption, just Huffman encoding, going on - it surely would only be a matter of time?

Is it a question more of being seen to do something, even if the something you are doing is largely ineffectual?

Other countries - like the US, Sweden - have no DRM on their OTA HD stuff that I know of. The US tried to introduce the "Broadcast Flag" and it was roundly defeated.

BBC HD on freesat boxes is encrypted by the stb. However it's not that straight forward, an encrypted recording made on one Freesat recorder will only play on the machine it was recorded on. Clearly there is a different decryption key for each machine (Or lots of variations)

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

BBC HD on freesat boxes is encrypted by the stb. However it's not that straight forward, an encrypted recording made on one Freesat recorder will only play on the machine it was recorded on. Clearly there is a different decryption key for each machine (Or lots of variations)

Yes - my point was that non-Freesat licensed boxes, which make clean recordings of the unencrypted video and audio streams, are not hit by this, and now that most of the Freesat EPG has been reverse engineered (some letter combos may not be known yet) non-Freesat boxes, which make clean recordings, can use the EPG as it has been reverse engineered. (My Fortecstar Innovation receives the Freesat EPG and records BBC HD fine - with the recordings playable on PCs etc.)

(Even the Humax HDR will record BBC HD clean in non-Freesat mode AIUI - it is only in Freesat mode that the recordings of BBC HD are protected)

With Freeview HD the BBC is obviously aiming to tighten this further - as Freesat has to be compatible both with Sky and Freesat boxes they could only compress the Freesat specific EPG using proprietary techniques and had to leave the main SI stuff open for Sky boxes to receive.

With Freeview HD they can control the entire platform by obfuscating the SI information (as there is no compatibility issue), locking out manufacturers who don't license their receivers.

It has issues for DVB-T2 tuner cards in PCs as well - as it is unlikely that Microsoft would want to sign a Freeview HD license to get Windows Media Center to access Freeview HD content?