[Jimlad]

I have my Pace Sky digibox (DS430N) located in my loft and control it from any of the three TV locations. The Satellite dish is connected to the Digibox. My terrestrial aerial is connected to the aerial in connector on the digibox. The 'RF1 out' is connected to a 6+1 way mains amplifier. To which I have connected my TV's and my VHF/FM kit via coax cables in trunking to the respective rooms. This in turn distributes the Sky signal to all three TV’s, (very good signal). Each TV uses the SLX magic TV Eye.

I now want to obtain and use Freesat as well as the above Sky system.
From my reading, I understand that my typical Sky dish is already aligned for Freesat. I also understand that if I buy a new LNB, which has at least two out puts, I can route the signal to a Freesat digibox.
I would like to also put the Freesat digibox in my loft and operate with my existing Sky/SLX magic TV Eye’s. Is this feasible?
How do I achieve switching between my Sky digibox to my Freesat box?

Jimlad

[dwhite]

The freesat boxes don't have RF outputs, so you have to get a RF modulator connected to the scart output to be able to use it in your current distribution system.

However, you do realise that the only extra channels you will get from freesat over your current sky system is 3 HD channels (BBC HD, ITV HD and Luxe HD), which won't be in HD anyway on the RF distribution system. All the other channels you currently get via your sky box (in fact its the very same broadcasts). The only difference will be the EPG.

[Jimlad]

My Sky system is Free Sky, not that would have an impact on your response.

As a stand alone system, is it feasible to locate the Freesat digibox in the loft and run three TV's from it and get full HD? I say this as I do want to receive HD. If it is how would I achieve it?

Jimlad

[dwhite]

Distributing HD can be expensive and problematic. I suggest you ask in the HDMI switches and cables forum for ideas.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Jimlad

As a stand alone system, is it feasible to locate the Freesat digibox in the loft and run three TV's from it and get full HD? I say this as I do want to receive HD. If it is how would I achieve it?

You'd need an HDMI splitter with at least three outputs & HDMI cable runs to each location.

Originally Posted by Jimlad

I would like to also put the Freesat digibox in my loft and operate with my existing Sky/SLX magic TV Eye’s. Is this feasible?

Yes, you'd just need to add something like the Omni Link to your existing setup (made by the same manufacturer as the SLx). This allows remote control over coax for non-Sky receivers. So you'd use HDMI for Freesat audio/video & coax for Freesat remote functionality - aswell as everything else you currently use it for

[Jimlad]

Thanks Ben. Are you saying I can set up Freesat as a stand alone system, to be received at three TV's and each will receive full HD?

Jimlad

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Jimlad

Are you saying I can set up Freesat as a stand alone system, to be received at three TV's and each will receive full HD?

Yep - though it won't be "full HD" as such, as UK satellite is broadcast at 1080i (not 1080p). Don't get too hung up on resolutions though, 720p/1080i looks great on a full HDTV

[Jimlad]

Ben, I would very much appreciate a fuller explanation of what I would need to enable my existing FreeSKY system to also operate on Freesat. Also how difficult is it to run the new HDMI cables between the loft located, Freesat digibox and each TV set i.e. is similar to, say running Coax? Or would it just be easier to have the Freesat box beside my lounge set (Sony KDL40W4000) and leave my other two sets on FreeSKY?

Jimlad

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Jimlad

Also how difficult is it to run the new HDMI cables between the loft located, Freesat digibox and each TV set i.e. is similar to, say running Coax?

Very difficult to say without seeing the property, but generally coax is much easier to run - as you can run it unterminated, whereas HDMI cables are pre-terminated & much more likely to get snagged/pulled off.

Originally Posted by Jimlad

Or would it just be easier to have the Freesat box beside my lounge set (Sony KDL40W4000) and leave my other two sets on FreeSKY?

Definitely

[Jimlad]

I have decided to just put the Freesat to my lounge Sony KDL40W4000. So the Freesat digibox will have to be adjacent which will should mean only short HDMI cable runs between digibox and the TV?. (need to sort the wife out, who hates boxes and cables - Ha Ho).
You have said that this setup will give me an HD picture that would be superior to the normal/currently received picture quiality. I did read that correctly didn't I?

So to my comment on the first post,
"From my reading, I understand that my typical Sky dish is already aligned for Freesat. I also understand that if I buy a new LNB, which has at least two out puts, I can then route the relevant signal to a Freesat digibox". Is this correct? Any comment on LNB's?
I have the standard smallish oval shaped Sky dish. Is there anything to be gained in changing my dish, larger/round? I currently get a good digital picture but would a larger/better dish make any real noticable improvement?
I will also need to buy a Freesat digibox - any comments?

Jimlad

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Jimlad

So the Freesat digibox will have to be adjacent which will should mean only short HDMI cable runs between digibox and the TV?

Yep

Originally Posted by Jimlad

You have said that this setup will give me an HD picture that would be superior to the normal/currently received picture quiality. I did read that correctly didn't I?

Yep, although as already mentioned only BBC HD, ITV HD & Luxe HD are currently available in Freesat. Channel 4 HD will eventually appear on Freesat too, though it's not clear exactly when. If you're currently watching Sky on a 40" HDTV via coax; then switching to HDMI - even just for the SD channels - should look the difference between night & day

Originally Posted by Jimlad

I also understand that if I buy a new LNB, which has at least two out puts, I can then route the relevant signal to a Freesat digibox". Is this correct? Any comment on LNB's?

You don't really get two-output LNBs for Sky dishes anymore, so any cheap quad LNB should do the job - which has four outputs.

Originally Posted by Jimlad

Is there anything to be gained in changing my dish, larger/round? I currently get a good digital picture but would a larger/better dish make any real noticable improvement?

Nope.

Originally Posted by Jimlad

I will also need to buy a Freesat digibox - any comments?

If you're happy with a STB, then the Humax Foxsat-HD is a decent receiver & you can pick up a graded model from Humax Direct for £89. If you're after a PVR, then the Humax Foxsat-HDR can be had from Amazon for £256. It's Freesat's equivalent to Sky HD with a 320Gb HDD. In terms of installation, the main difference is that being a twin-tuner PVR, it requires two cable feeds from the LNB - whereas a regular STB only requires one.

[Jimlad]

Thanks again for the clear & positive direction and Links.
I will go for the twin tuner PVR.

As I envisage it, I will be able to take both new HD grade, coax leads directly from the quad LNB, vertically down the outside wall, through the wall adjacent to the TV/Freesat digibox. I intend fitting a new flush mounted double outlet connector(please advise on type) beside my existing single coax socket which currently supplies my SKY & Analogue/Freeview signal to my TV. Any comments on it so far?

Will I still be able to feed both the existing Freesat and Sky signal inputs to the TV and switch between the Freesat signal source and the SKY/Freesat source, should I wish to? Will this approach require unpluging/plugging in which ever source I want to use. I say this because my TV has a built-in Freeview system.

Jimlad

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Jimlad

Thanks again for the clear & positive direction and Links.
I will go for the twin tuner PVR.

As I envisage it, I will be able to take both new HD grade, coax leads directly from the quad LNB, vertically down the outside wall, through the wall adjacent to the TV/Freesat digibox. I intend fitting a new flush mounted double outlet connector(please advise on type) beside my existing single coax socket which currently supplies my SKY & Analogue/Freeview signal to my TV. Any comments on it so far?

Will I still be able to feed both the existing Freesat and Sky signal inputs to the TV and switch between the Freesat signal source and the SKY/Freesat source, should I wish to? Will this approach require unpluging/plugging in which ever source I want to use. I say this because my TV has a built-in Freeview system.

Jimlad

If you go to B&Q they sell modular wall plates to which you can fit all sorts of accessories in your case you need at least 2 f connector modules, . You can connect as many items to the TV as you have inputs for, just select whatever input you want to watch. In your case a RGB scart input for the sky box and a hdmi for the freesat stb.

[Jimlad]

Thanks. My SKY digibox is in the loft (The Sky box also feeds SKY/ Freesat to two other TV's in the house) I feed the signal(s) from the Sky box to the TV in the lounge via SLX eye units/control, which is to have the Freesat digibox adjacent to it. With regard to the modular wall plate would I just route the Sky/Analogue/Freesat (aerial on roof) with coax link from my existing TV wall plate/outlet into a coax connector on the new modular wall plate, then out again to the lounge TV or why can't I go direct with this feed to the lounge TV input?

Jimlad

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Jimlad

Thanks. My SKY digibox is in the loft (The Sky box also feeds SKY/ Freesat to two other TV's in the house) I feed the signal(s) from the Sky box to the TV in the lounge via SLX eye units/control, which is to have the Freesat digibox adjacent to it. With regard to the modular wall plate would I just route the Sky/Analogue/Freesat (aerial on roof) with coax link from my existing TV wall plate/outlet into a coax connector on the new modular wall plate, then out again to the lounge TV or why can't I go direct with this feed to the lounge TV input?

Jimlad

Why don't you move the sky digibox next to the main TV and send it's signals via RF up the cable to the loft for distribution to the other TV's. This will give you a better RGB picture on the main TV and also stereo sound. By adding an external modulator to the hdr you can add it's output to the signal sent back to the loft so the other TV's can watch the hdr as well as sky.

This means three downleads to the main TV, two seperate lnb coax for the hdr and one for satellite multiplexed with DTT to your existing diplexed outlet by the main TV. Your existing DTT outlet from the wall diplexer would go to the hdr external modulator input. It's output to the sky rfin and sky's rf2 out back to the return coax to the loft to distribute to the other TV's.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Why don't you move the sky digibox next to the main TV and send it's signals via RF up the cable to the loft for distribution to the other TV's. This will give you a better RGB picture on the main TV and also stereo sound. By adding an external modulator to the hdr you can add it's output to the signal sent back to the loft so the other TV's can watch the hdr as well as sky.

This means three downleads to the main TV, two seperate lnb coax for the hdr and one for satellite multiplexed with DTT to your existing diplexed outlet by the main TV. Your existing DTT outlet from the wall diplexer would go to the hdr external modulator input. It's output to the sky rfin and sky's rf2 out back to the return coax to the loft to distribute to the other TV's.

IMO, bearing in mind he's already got a working setup, that seems like a lot of work just to get an extra four channels* in RGB on one TV. Plus you'll have two STBs sitting under your TV, which isn't great if your wife isn't keen on even having one! Just my 2p worth

*Note to OP: FreeSatFromSky has Fiver, Five USA, Sky3 & Setanta Sports News - whereas Freesat doesn't.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Ben

IMO, bearing in mind he's already got a working setup, that seems like a lot of work just to get an extra four channels* in RGB on one TV. Plus you'll have two STBs sitting under your TV, which isn't great if your wife isn't keen on even having one! Just my 2p worth

*Note to OP: FreeSatFromSky has Fiver, Five USA, Sky3 & Setanta Sports News - whereas Freesat doesn't.

Can't see where the extra work comes in, he already has the cabling to move the sky box and magic eyes, and he has to cable the 2 extra lnb's whatever he does. Where do you get 4 channels from, at the moment it sounds as if every tv is fed using the sky box modulator, which means every TV is using inferior signals which is usually fine for small extra TV's but very poor for larger screen ones. Surely this will give him full stereo sound and RGB quality for every channel on his sky box on the main TV.

Feeding a HD ready TV with an analogue signal, quality wise is crazy when a digital tuner is available.

[Jimlad]

Gulp! Sorry but I am not up to understanding a lot of the abreviations you used. However, I think I get your drift. I will certainly need you to hand nurse me through this one. My first problem is I have a wife who hates electronic boxes and their linking leads, so I try to keep both to a minimum. With what is suggested I would have two digiboxes, Sky & Freesat adjacent to my lounge TV. I aready have a Daewoo HDD/DVD recorder (DH-6100P) and will in the future buy a Blueray record/play system. I am currently using the basic low quality coax links between the loft and respective TV's/rooms. However, I could run the extra required cables/coax externally as my dish is located just above my lounge (main)TV at first floor level. It would be relatively easy to enter the loft space with all the necessary cables to/from lounge/ dish also route the Freesat signal fro the roof aerial along the same route. But I am not sure how the distribution would function to the other TV's. I don't want to have to surface run any cables as we have just finished a complete internal redecoration. So if your suggestion doesn't require internal running of cables, we may have a way forward.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Jimlad

Gulp! Sorry but I am not up to understanding a lot of the abreviations you used. However, I think I get your drift. I will certainly need you to hand nurse me through this one. My first problem is I have a wife who hates electronic boxes and their linking leads, so I try to keep both to a minimum. With what is suggested I would have two digiboxes, Sky & Freesat adjacent to my lounge TV. I aready have a Daewoo HDD/DVD recorder (DH-6100P) and will in the future buy a Blueray record/play system. I am currently using the basic low quality coax links between the loft and respective TV's/rooms. However, I could run the extra required cables/coax externally as my dish is located just above my lounge (main)TV at first floor level. It would be relatively easy to enter the loft space with all the necessary cables to/from lounge/ dish also route the Freesat signal fro the roof aerial along the same route. But I am not sure how the distribution would function to the other TV's. I don't want to have to surface run any cables as we have just finished a complete internal redecoration. So if your suggestion doesn't require internal running of cables, we may have a way forward.

Give me 30mins to do you a diagram. You can use the existing coax for the low quality return path. the only new cables you will need is the three new ones from the dish to the main TV position.
Extra questions
Does the DVD recorder have a digital tuner in it ?
Does the DVD recorder allow recording from a RGB source or not
Is it OK to record only from the Sky box or do you want to archive recordings made on the hdr to DVD using the recorder ?.

[Jimlad]

Quote - Does the DVD recorder have a digital tuner in it ?
Only recently aquired this from my son. See attachment.
Does the DVD recorder allow recording from a RGB source or not - See attachment
Is it OK to record only from the Sky box or do you want to archive recordings made on the hdr to DVD using the recorder ?. No I would want to archive recordings on HDR to DVD.

Hope the attachment works.

Jimlad

[Ben]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Surely this will give him full stereo sound and RGB quality for every channel on his sky box on the main TV.

It will, but surely he's almost never going to use Sky on the main TV if he's got a Foxsat-HDR connected via HDMI-? (Apart from to watch the above four channels & he won't even do that if he's got Freeview).

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Ben

It will, but surely he's almost never going to use Sky on the main TV if he's got a Foxsat-HDR connected via HDMI-? (Apart from to watch the above four channels & he won't even do that if he's got Freeview).

When he is recording 2 channels on the hdr he has only a limited selection of channels to watch using the foxsat. So he will likely use the sky box under these circumstances

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Jimlad

Quote - Does the DVD recorder have a digital tuner in it ?
Only recently aquired this from my son. See attachment.
Does the DVD recorder allow recording from a RGB source or not - See attachment
Is it OK to record only from the Sky box or do you want to archive recordings made on the hdr to DVD using the recorder ?. No I would want to archive recordings on HDR to DVD.

Hope the attachment works.

Jimlad

It only records composite.

Diagram of Coax connections satellite and terrestrial here

4shared.com - photo sharing - download image Conn1.jpg


Scart connection diagram tommorow.

PS found an error existing wallplate to external modulator should come from TV out on wallplate not Sat out will put right tommorow

Diagram now correct on same link

[Ben]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

When he is recording 2 channels on the hdr he has only a limited selection of channels to watch using the foxsat. So he will likely use the sky box under these circumstances

Thanks for the clarification

[Jimlad]

Not sure how many of the 17 pages I need to download? I note there are two connection diagrams will need to study them to understand what the are offering?

Can I print them out before downloading or is it better to download all and then select?

Have to go out now.

Thanks

Jimlad

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Jimlad

Quote - Does the DVD recorder have a digital tuner in it ?
Only recently aquired this from my son. See attachment.
Does the DVD recorder allow recording from a RGB source or not - See attachment
Is it OK to record only from the Sky box or do you want to archive recordings made on the hdr to DVD using the recorder ?. No I would want to archive recordings on HDR to DVD.

Hope the attachment works.

Jimlad

Extra question, how many scarts on the tv and what other inputs have you got ?

[Jimlad]

2 Scarts but see attachment.

Will be out most of working day.

Jimlad

[grahamlthompson]

Scart Diagram

4shared.com - photo sharing - download image Conn2.jpg


Second error on first diagram - Magic Eye removed, you dont need one by the Sky box (forgot the electronics are inside the box and not an optical link)
Same link - diagram updated

External modulator to send hdr output over coax

UHF Modulator TV/CCTV/ Home Cinema/Camera 350.111 on eBay, also, CCTV Security Cameras, Security Equipment, Consumer Electronics (end time 29-Apr-09 21:37:02 BST)

The system as shown won't allow you to control the hdr remotely for that you need an infra red remote extender like this

POWERMID INFRARED REMOTE EXTENDER DVR DVD SKY SATELLITE on eBay, also, CCTV Security Cameras, Security Equipment, Consumer Electronics (end time 25-Apr-09 21:00:00 BST)

With this you won't need the Magic Eyes as it should work with the hdr and the Sky Box

You will need an extra transmitter for two remote TV's though

[Jimlad]

I am digesting your comprehensive information. It would help me if you would compile a shopping list of the kit I need to purchase. I am having a go as well.

I already have a few questions but will wait till I have reviewed everything and then seek your help where necessary.

Thanks

Jimlad

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Jimlad

I am digesting your comprehensive information. It would help me if you would compile a shopping list of the kit I need to purchase. I am having a go as well.

I already have a few questions but will wait till I have reviewed everything and then seek your help where necessary.

Thanks

Jimlad

Quad lnb suitable for your dish
PF100 (or similar) coax cable
F plugs for the cable
F plugs to Belling lee adaptors to make the coax interconnects
Waterproof boots and Silicone Grease for the external dish connections
How to fit F Connectors to coaxial cable
UHF modulator
2 way uhf splitter (with dc pass if using magic eyes) or add a magic eye dc bypass to each leg
Connection cable for uhf modulator to hdr. IF you get the one linked it's just a 3 rca phono to 3 rca phono cable.
Remote control for hdr.