[T3C]

First off, I'm sorry if I've posted this in the wrong place and please mods feel free to move this posts if needs be.

Ok then, right I'm stuck in making a decision between Sky hd or Freesat. Well, it was going to be Freesat until Sky dropped the price which made me dither a little bit. But, now with ITV hd available via Sky has made it even harder and this is where you guys (and girls) come in ?

Does anyone know if ITV HD is going to stay available via Sky or is this just a temporary glitch and soon to be closed so ITV HD goes back to being only a available on Freesat?

Many thanks in advance.

[Andy98765]

It all depends on the packages with SKY. At £29 it is very inviting and a Freesat PVR at £280 not so.
But over 1 year and then step into year two you will end up paying SKY £100's that is why they let you have the box so cheap as they know they are going to get it all back + a crate load of more money from you.
I personally dumped SKY as we had a SKY HD box and 3 SKY+ boxes which was costing me nearly £80 per month which is £960 per year.
Now have a Freesat PVR one off cost of £280, BT Vision (£60) with no subscription and freeview elsewhere. So over two years I now have £1580 to spend on DVD's, and going down to the pub to watch any football matches, that is a hell of a lot of DVD's and watching football.

[Broadz]

Do you want three high def channels, or do you want between 15 and 32? If you only want the free channels, get a Freesat HD box. If you want subscription high def channels, get Sky HD.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by T3C

First off, I'm sorry if I've posted this in the wrong place and please mods feel free to move this posts if needs be.

Ok then, right I'm stuck in making a decision between Sky hd or Freesat. Well, it was going to be Freesat until Sky dropped the price which made me dither a little bit. But, now with ITV hd available via Sky has made it even harder and this is where you guys (and girls) come in ?

Does anyone know if ITV HD is going to stay available via Sky or is this just a temporary glitch and soon to be closed so ITV HD goes back to being only a available on Freesat?

Many thanks in advance.

For ITV to stop Sky HD boxes with the new EPG picking up ITV HD, they'd have to alter the signal in some way. Given that would almost certainly 'break' existing Freesat setups, and that encoding is not possible with Freesat, it would appear the unofficial access to ITV HD is here to stay.

Personally I think ITV HD will appear on the Sky EPG sometime next year. (though I have nothing other than common sense to support this view).

As for your decision - what channels do you currently watch, and what are you expecting in terms of HD.

Assuming you want a PVR and that you aren't a sky customer at the moment and don't have a dish:


Freesat
£340 buys you a Freesat PVR and gives your a reasonable range of channels along with BBC HD and ITV HD - both of which are part time at the moment. Note certain channels like Dave and Living etc are not nor likely to be part of Freesat.
(£280box+ £60 for a dish installed)

Sky HD
£363 buys you a Sky HD Box with 21 HD channels for one year (all the Sky HD channels apart from movies, sport and Disney)
(£49 box, 11months @10month HD sub + 12 months @ £17 a month basic sky sub)

To continue to use the Sky HD box as a PVR after that first year will cost one of the following

£10 a month thereafter for the basic Freesat Channels plus C4HD
£17 a month for the basic sky package plus C4HD, BBC HD
£27 a month for basic sky package plus 21 HD channels

Combined broadband and telephone deals may make sky a better deal.

Prices ignore temporary changes because of VAT changes.


Which of the two represents good value to you, is only a question you can answer. Personally I spend way more on Coffee a month than I do on Sky World - so Sky for me is a 'no brainer'. However for another property, we use occasionally, Freesat is looking to be the best deal. Everyone's mileage will vary.

[°Keir°]

Great post there Gasdad, put the info down really well.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by GasDad

Personally I think ITV HD will appear on the Sky EPG sometime next year. (though I have nothing other than common sense to support this view).

.

I doubt this can happen until and if ITV HD becomes a normal channel. Sky boxes don't have the advanced MHEG features required to handle the red button access to the data stream.
To make ITV HD a normal channel requires that room on Astra 2D is made available to move ITV HD from Eurobird 1

[BrianMc]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

I doubt this can happen until and if ITV HD becomes a normal channel. Sky boxes don't have the advanced MHEG features required to handle the red button access to the data stream.

You have lept to a an incorrect answer from a correct piece of information! Sky STBs don't use MHEG certainly BUT their "red button functionality" (using OpenTV) is, at least, equaivalent! Using this to provide access to ITVHD would be no harder than with Freesat.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by BrianMc

You have lept to a an incorrect answer from a correct piece of information! Sky STBs don't use MHEG certainly BUT their "red button functionality" (using OpenTV) is, at least, equaivalent! Using this to provide access to ITVHD would be no harder than with Freesat.

The red button implementation on a freesat box is different to a Sky box and access to the red button implementation for ITV HD requires MHEG

Updated: The ultimate guide to Freesat | PC Format

The data stream can be tuned as a channel on any fta box that allows a different vpid to be used. That's why you can add it as a channel on boxes with the new epg.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

I doubt this can happen until and if ITV HD becomes a normal channel. Sky boxes don't have the advanced MHEG features required to handle the red button access to the data stream.
To make ITV HD a normal channel requires that room on Astra 2D is made available to move ITV HD from Eurobird 1

Tbh I wish I hadn't included that line in the post - as in a sense if detracts from the rest of it.

The following assumes ITV haven't actually gone bust next year.....

However, given that ITV HD is supposed sometime next year to be a full time channel on Freeview there is a strong possibility that room will be found for it on the appropriate transponder. If it was going to be available on the Sky EPG, it would surely be in Skys interest to juggle a few transponders around to make this happen.

The other problem is of course regional advertising*. If I was running ITV - I'd sell the HD channel as a separate 'region' - one full of rich people who can afford HD displays - surely an attractive market for advertisers. Whatever happens, it will have to be resolved soon - as a million homes will be potentially watching ITV HD in the coming months.



James


* For those that don't know - ITV HD shows the Granada region adverts. With large scale usage this will of course annoy regional advertisers.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Andy98765

At £29 it is very inviting and a Freesat PVR at £280 not so.

Out of curiosity - it's only £29 when you buy an HDTV at the same time from Currys/Comet, right?

[Broadz]

Originally Posted by Ben

Out of curiosity - it's only £29 when you buy an HDTV at the same time from Currys/Comet, right?

In theory yes. In reality, Currys receive £120 from Sky for each new Sky HD box they sell, so there are many salesmen who will allow you to order Sky HD from them whether you have or haven't bought a TV from them as well. That's how my gf got her Sky HD box on the cheap, prior to the recent £49 offer.

[asibley]

I have Sky+ and recently decided to go the freesat route. The reasons for ditching it were that although I enjoy watching the football, the picture quality was very poor in my opinion. I didn't see why I had to pay so much for poor quality pictures as well as be bombarded with adverts as well. I thought about the SkyHD route but didn't want to pay yet more money just to get an acceptable picture.

The rest of the sky channels I could take or leave, so I was effectively paying near £50 a month for watching around 6 games a month, £8 a game. I decided to live without it and go down the local for a big game and watch match of the day more.

Another reason I hadn't left sky before was because of the sky+ functionality. I found I could not live without it after having it for a number of years. Now my foxsat HDR solves that problem too. It perhaps not quite as intuitive as SKY+ but it does the same thing at the end of the day.

I can still watch half the champions league games in HD for free so I don't see myself going back to sky.

It all depends on how much value you think you get from Sky. If money isn't really an issue then SKYHD delivers the best overall option to you but at a price.

[BrianMc]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

The red button implementation on a freesat box is different to a Sky box and access to the red button implementation for ITV HD requires MHEG

I am not arguing that point! If ITVHD ever officially came to Sky it would not be hard to write equivalent "red button" functionality in OpenTV - the BBC convert their dynamic content to both formats routinely.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by BrianMc

I am not arguing that point! If ITVHD ever officially came to Sky it would not be hard to write equivalent "red button" functionality in OpenTV - the BBC convert their dynamic content to both formats routinely.

Why haven't Sky done it already then ?. They have given access using add channels, why not through the ITV1 epg as on freesat ?

[BrianMc]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Why haven't Sky done it already then ?. They have given access using add channels, why not through the ITV1 epg as on freesat ?

Pretty obvious really!!!

1) It could provoke ITV into legal action! Making a FTA channel accessible is prefectly reasonable. Blatently theiving it isn't!

2) Channels pay Sky EPG access fees. Until ITVHD do so they won't get a slot - or official "red button" access - (and no Sky+HD STB will be able to record it either!)

[°Keir°]

I'm thinking of getting this sky HD box for £29 as well, I'm currently using a standard sky box for freesat, with one line in.

Will the SkyHD box work with only one line in, or does it need two like the HUMAX PVR?

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by °Keir°

I'm thinking of getting this sky HD box for £29 as well, I'm currently using a standard sky box for freesat, with one line in.

Will the SkyHD box work with only one line in, or does it need two like the HUMAX PVR?

Both work with only 1 cable to a limited degree (assuming you mean the SkyHD+ twin tuner box). The foxsat-hdr works a lot better on 1 cable though due to a clever design trick using tuner1 out to feed tuner2 in. Single tuner boxes on either platform only need 1 cable.

[°Keir°]

ok then well, I'm on freesat using a standard sky box with sky viewing card (free channels) and want a sky HD box for the HDMI port and the free HD stuff.


I'm only using one line in (co-ax cable) so am I able to just swap the box's over and it'll work?

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by °Keir°

ok then well, I'm on freesat using a standard sky box with sky viewing card (free channels) and want a sky HD box for the HDMI port and the free HD stuff.


I'm only using one line in (co-ax cable) so am I able to just swap the box's over and it'll work?

Can't see any reason why it won't work. HD is no different to SD it just uses more bandwidth on the satellite to transmit.

[°Keir°]

Cool beans, I just need to make sure before paying for the box.

Cheers

[Giblets]

If they could get rid of half the regional BBC's and ITV's that would free up so many spaces, besides, local news seems to be concerned mainly with cats stuck up trees and pensioners falling over paving slabs.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by Giblets

If they could get rid of half the regional BBC's and ITV's that would free up so many spaces, besides, local news seems to be concerned mainly with cats stuck up trees and pensioners falling over paving slabs.

Which for the BBC would break the agreements behind the TV license.

Which for ITV would destroy their regional advertising income.