Metronic audio not being seen by Yamaha 761

Galaxy · 14-01-2009, 7:55 AM

Doubled up this thread here and in the Amp section in the vain hope that somebody will have an answer!
I have had a the 761 for a while and I am very pleased with it, as I have been with all my Yammy amps.....but last night I installed a Metronic Freesat HD box which went well until I tried later in the evening to watch to find there was no audio from the box, or so I thought! It is connected purely through the HDMI socket when I first installed the box the audio was fine, but I have found if I switch the Yammy to watch another source then go back to the Metronic source there is no audio.....if I then go into the Metronic box audio set-up and switch from PCM to "Dolby" (only the two options) the sound comes back......if the source is then changed and then changed back to the Metronic again there is no audio....so into the set-up again and flip this time from "Dolby" to PCM and the audio comes back!

It does not appear that the problem is PCM or Dolby dependant.....more as if the Yammy is not "seeing" the audio signal when the amp is switched to that source.....but if the signal is changed ie from PCM to Dolby and vs versa the amp then recognises the audio signal and flag up the source and the sound comes through.....

Any one else had a problem like this if the Yammy not "seeing" the audio upon source switching?

grahamlthompson · 14-01-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Doubled up this thread here and in the Amp section in the vain hope that somebody will have an answer!
I have had a the 761 for a while and I am very pleased with it, as I have been with all my Yammy amps.....but last night I installed a Metronic Freesat HD box which went well until I tried later in the evening to watch to find there was no audio from the box, or so I thought! It is connected purely through the HDMI socket when I first installed the box the audio was fine, but I have found if I switch the Yammy to watch another source then go back to the Metronic source there is no audio.....if I then go into the Metronic box audio set-up and switch from PCM to "Dolby" (only the two options) the sound comes back......if the source is then changed and then changed back to the Metronic again there is no audio....so into the set-up again and flip this time from "Dolby" to PCM and the audio comes back!

It does not appear that the problem is PCM or Dolby dependant.....more as if the Yammy is not "seeing" the audio signal when the amp is switched to that source.....but if the signal is changed ie from PCM to Dolby and vs versa the amp then recognises the audio signal and flag up the source and the sound comes through.....

Any one else had a problem like this if the Yammy not "seeing" the audio upon source switching?

As there's not many of these new boxes around yet you will be lucky to find a definitive answer. I imagine the Metronic will have a S/Pdif digital output (coax or optical) if so try using that for audio rather than hdmi. If your amp is similar to my Denon avr4306 you should be able to assign the S/Pdif audio used with the HDMI video in the set up menus.

Galaxy · 14-01-2009, 12:43 PM

Graham, Yes.....I was hoping to cut cable clutter to a minimum by relying only on the HDMI (as intended!) for audio passthrough.....but as this box replaces my Sky box I have an optical cable the correct length already there......why oh why do these things never run smooth!

As an aside I must say I am very impressed with the PQ of the Metronic, compared to my Humax Freeview PVR the Metronic Freesat looks as good and better on some SD channels.....one reason I didn't plunge right in and buy the Hummy FS PVR was the reports of soft SD pictures....but that certainly not my experience so far with SD from this Metronic box.....

son_t · 14-01-2009, 12:53 PM

WOW you have one! What is the Metronic like? Is it possible for you to snap some pics of the GUI for us to have a look at?

EDIT: Where did you get yours from?

Galaxy · 14-01-2009, 2:04 PM

Yup...arrived yesterday from Maplin.....free delivery with DHL...ordered it Monday morning.....24hrs later its here!

KevIW · 14-01-2009, 2:52 PM

My father inlaw has just got a humax freesat pvr and is having trouble with the dolby sound and his yammy 361. Its doesn't seem to see DD over optical and says pro logic most of the time. If I manage to get it to see DD it is crackly. Its stange!

Galaxy · 14-01-2009, 3:19 PM

I am going to try the optical tonight......I have had a Hummy FV PVR for ages and its fine although I only have it linked S video and phono audio through my amp (upscales through the amp to component, brilliant PQ) as I found there was no difference in quality between opt and analogue from freeview.

I'll snap some piccies of the GUI tonight.........

dwhite · 14-01-2009, 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevIW

My father inlaw has just got a humax freesat pvr and is having trouble with the dolby sound and his yammy 361. Its doesn't seem to see DD over optical and says pro logic most of the time. If I manage to get it to see DD it is crackly. Its stange!

You do realise that Dolby Digital is currently only available on the BBCHD channel and quite often its only DD2.0? Every other channel is just 2 channel PCM which your amp can process into surround sound using dolby prologic processing.

KevIW · 14-01-2009, 3:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwhite

You do realise that Dolby Digital is currently only available on the BBCHD channel and quite often its only DD2.0? Every other channel is just 2 channel PCM which your amp can process into surround sound using dolby prologic processing.

Yes I know its only BBCHD. But DD2.0 thats news to me! So what is the point of DD2.0??? The amp would only see this as a stereo input. But it does not explain the crackle.

dwhite · 14-01-2009, 4:05 PM

BBC HD is always broadcasting Dolby Digital, however when they haven't done a 5.1 mix for the particular programme they only broadcast DD2.0. In the early days of BBC HD there was all sorts of confusion when they used to broadcast DD2.0 but flag it as DD5.1, meaning nobody could use Dolby Pologic processing on it!

Sorry It doesn't help explain the crackle tho.

Galaxy · 14-01-2009, 6:56 PM

I get audio from BBCHD in both "Doby Digital" and the "PCM" mode from the Metronic.......tonight I have tried the optical connection with virtually no better results.....the audio "might" stay on when changing channels on the Metronic now but not often, and EVERY time I switch input mode on the Yammy and go back to the Metronic I loose audio and have to go into the Metronic menu and toggle either DD or PCM to get the audio back!

Not sure if its a dodgey box or the Yammy being extra piccy with the audio flag?

Whatever, here are the GUI shots.....

They are very slick and seem to have plenty of info and choice.....not customised them yet as I have been to busy trying to get the bl**dy sound working!

Clem_Dye · 14-01-2009, 7:26 PM

Just a thought, but can you try other devices on the same cable set? You mentioned that you could use the optical cable from your Sky box. If the Sky box is connected to the amp. and you switch inputs, what happens when you select the Sky input again?

I could perhaps understand a loss of audio via the HDMI port (HDMI seems very picky at the best of times) but not optical. Assuming that you're not switching the Metronic box into standby whilst you switch inputs on the amp. then nothing can have changed at the source end of things, so this would point to the amp. as being the issue.

Rather than cycle the Metronic's audio selection can you cycle the inputs on the amp. instead to see what happens? Can you try the Metronic box on another amp. to see what happens? There's no signalling on optical as such - the output should always be available from the satellite box if it's in use.

Right now, my money's on the amp. being the issue. As you say, nothing is ever straightforward! Sigh.

Clem

Clem_Dye · 14-01-2009, 7:32 PM

Oh, by cycling the inputs on the amp. I mean can you toggle an input between analogue and digital, assuming that an input is shared. For example, my old Denon amp. had a single input selection for CD, but I could connect both analogue and digital cabling for that input. If the CD player was powered-on first, the Denon would select the digital input over the analogue, but I could select the analogue in preference if I wanted to. I wonder if that be the issue, or something similar?

Clem

Galaxy · 14-01-2009, 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clem_Dye

Just a thought, but can you try other devices on the same cable set? You mentioned that you could use the optical cable from your Sky box. If the Sky box is connected to the amp. and you switch inputs, what happens when you select the Sky input again?

I could perhaps understand a loss of audio via the HDMI port (HDMI seems very picky at the best of times) but not optical. Assuming that you're not switching the Metronic box into standby whilst you switch inputs on the amp. then nothing can have changed at the source end of things, so this would point to the amp. as being the issue.

Rather than cycle the Metronic's audio selection can you cycle the inputs on the amp. instead to see what happens? Can you try the Metronic box on another amp. to see what happens? There's no signalling on optical as such - the output should always be available from the satellite box if it's in use.

Right now, my money's on the amp. being the issue. As you say, nothing is ever straightforward! Sigh.

Clem

Yes the optical cable was working fine with the Sky box a few hours before! And there has never been a problem before whilst switching sources.....the box is definately on I checked.....if I cycle between sources I loose the audio on going back to the source for the Metronic....BTW the optical cable is shining like a beacon so sure is a signal on that!

I have a sneaking feeling its the Metronic box not giving the correct flag for the amp to switch onto the processing of the signal....maybe!

I may just return it for a replacement and see what happens with the new box.....

Galaxy · 14-01-2009, 7:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clem_Dye

Oh, by cycling the inputs on the amp. I mean can you toggle an input between analogue and digital, assuming that an input is shared. For example, my old Denon amp. had a single input selection for CD, but I could connect both analogue and digital cabling for that input. If the CD player was powered-on first, the Denon would select the digital input over the analogue, but I could select the analogue in preference if I wanted to. I wonder if that be the issue, or something similar?

Clem

Yes I can...and I did....and it didn't

I can see the end of the tether approaching fast here....

Galaxy · 15-01-2009, 8:09 AM

Almost have it sussed now, not a pretty solution though...after much fiddling I am not sure what I did exactly to improve matters

but now I can get the audio from the Metronic to be recognised by the Yamaha by changing channels on the Metronic.....ie when I first turn on the Metronic and switch to its source on the Yammy there is no audio until I then change channel and "bingo" audio flag pops up on the Yammy display and sounds pours from my speakers

......still annoying though......whats more annoying is I sent a query to both Yamaha and Metronic and have not even had a aknoweldgement of my query yet, let alone an answer

son_t · 15-01-2009, 9:17 AM

I would try hard to get Metronic to provide a solution for your problem... HDMI issues are more common than you would think...

Is there an optical output on the Metronic that you could use instead of the audio from the HDMI?

Galaxy · 15-01-2009, 10:13 AM

Yes I am trying! No reply as yet

I am not happy about "getting around the problem"....would prefer and require a fix or answer!

If I do not get an answer by Friday I will be on to Maplin for a refund or exchange box.....if the exchange box is the same I suppose its a Hummy?

Galaxy · 16-01-2009, 9:41 AM

Still no replies from Metronic or Yamaha....so the box is going back for an exchange.....if the second one displays the same trait it'll be a refund I am afraid!

son_t · 16-01-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Still no replies from Metronic or Yamaha....so the box is going back for an exchange.....if the second one displays the same trait it'll be a refund I am afraid!

Have you tried the optical output instead of the HDMI, or doesn't your Yammy have a S/PDIF input?

Galaxy · 16-01-2009, 7:02 PM

It does and I have and it still fails

The box is going back to Maplin tomorrow for a replacement, if the new one has the same trait then I guess it just isn't "shaking hands" with the Yammy correctly....it'll then be a Hummy.....but worried about the reported soft SD performance on the Hummy....certainly the Metronic gives a virtually identical performance on SD to my FV HUmmy PVR.

grizzlybearpuma · 05-04-2009, 7:39 PM

did you find a solution for this as it seems my box has the same issue

even with just the hdmi plugged up to the tv (42" lg lf66) when changing any video settings the sound disappears and will only return after switching channels

with scart and hdmi connected, after changing channel the hdmi looses sound until the scart is unplugged

other than that the sd picture seems nice and crisp and the hd

is hd

Galaxy · 06-04-2009, 3:24 PM

Nope...afraid not....the unit went back to Maplin and of course they "repaired it"......upon return it was displaying exactly the same fault, there appears to be an anomoly in the audio flagging.

I returned the box and demanded a refund as obviously its not fit for use.

I will now wait for the Panny HD PVR to launch and see what the final street price of that will be.

BTW Metronic customer service was non existant, I sent two emails to thier online enquiries/service division with not a single reply, another reason I will not be going back to that brand! Shame because PQ was excellent on SD and as you say HD was....HD

Sorry I am of little help, send it back is my advice.

grizzlybearpuma · 06-04-2009, 8:57 PM

mmmm getting tempted to take it back

(only connected by hdmi)
watched the gadget show on five tonight and then switched over to bbc hd for hero's and the sound disappeared, tried several channels but still no sound.
sound only returned after changing back to channel five

have emailed metronic with a link to this thread in the hope (that they actually read there emails) that there techies are still working on the software
holding on to a glimmer of hope that this issue can be fixed with an update

Galaxy · 07-04-2009, 4:55 PM

Well don't hold your breath, it would be a shame to loose a forum member

grizzlybearpuma · 09-04-2009, 4:13 PM

they replied informing me there was a usb update for this issue

and after i mailed them again asking for a link to it they sent it me (it still isnt on the website so im gessing it may not be totally proven yet)

update install went well only time will tell if its cured my issues

altho i still loose sound when i change any video settings and have to change channel to get it back

but hdmi does keep the sound with scart connected

Galaxy · 09-04-2009, 4:16 PM

Hey thats good news, but still have the issue I had and apparently the update does not address that......well at least I don't feel so bad about sending mine back now

Anyone seen any more news on the Panny units?

son_t · 10-04-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Anyone seen any more news on the Panny units?

Panasonic only make integrated Freesat TVs. They are about to release their Freesat DVD or Blu-ray/HDD twin tuner recorders...

You should look out for the Technisat Freesat STBs, if you are in the market for one and can wait...
http://blog.wotsat.com/page/whatsat?...sat_hd_box_out

Galaxy · 10-04-2009, 1:18 PM

Yes....Panny have been "about to release" the units for a few months now!

I have been looking around for more details of the basic DVDR/HDR box, but so far just the teaser released a few months ago......

I can wait.

son_t · 10-04-2009, 1:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Yes....Panny have been "about to release" the units for a few months now!

I have been looking around for more details of the basic DVDR/HDR box, but so far just the teaser released a few months ago......

I can wait.

They are available in France... I expect Panasonic are working on the Freesat interface and specs compliancy software for the machines...

Whatever, the UI looks pants compared to the HDR:
http://osd.wikispaces.com/Panasonic+...0+%28French%29
http://osd.wikispaces.com/Panasonic+Freesat+Blu-ray+PVR