[deezel]

OK, BBC

apparently there are not enough viewers watching HD

Of course not, because there is very little popular programming on HD

I mean, if there's little to watch then you gonna get few viewers

Its not rocket science

OK, here's my fix

Take the 10 most popular shows and show them in HD

Its called encouragement

Why should peeps go out and buy freesat unless there is something worthwhile to view

Sheesh, you dont need to be einstein

[Andrew277]

Have the BBC made a decision ?

[Trollslayer]

There is a schedule to increase HD, this will roll out as DVB-T2 is introduced during the digital switchover.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by deezel

Why should peeps go out and buy freesat unless there is something worthwhile to view

Quite simple - because Freesat was not launched as a vehicle to promote HD, it was launched in order to compliment existing Freeview coverage and thereby to assist with DSO (for example, in those areas where Freeview reception is limited). The fact that there are some (limited) HD channels is a bonus, but the production of HD programming still remains expensive until such time as all studios & kit is upgraded, production teams are fully trained to utilise the kit (this was apparently one of the big issues as to why Merlin was not HD), and sets are rebuilt (HD shows up many flaws that are not apparent on SD)

[pdoherty76]

Originally Posted by deezel

OK, BBC

apparently there are not enough viewers watching HD

Of course not, because there is very little popular programming on HD

I mean, if there's little to watch then you gonna get few viewers

Its not rocket science

OK, here's my fix

Take the 10 most popular shows and show them in HD

Its called encouragement

Why should peeps go out and buy freesat unless there is something worthwhile to view

Sheesh, you dont need to be einstein

Strictly come dancing is the number one BBC show and its in HD. Top Gear is in HD. The number one christmas programme was wallace and gromits new programme and it was in HD, in fact most of the major films, dramas and comedies over crimbo were in HD.

[derek500]

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Strictly come dancing is the number one BBC show and its in HD. Top Gear is in HD. The number one christmas programme was wallace and gromits new programme and it was in HD, in fact most of the major films, dramas and comedies over crimbo were in HD.

Strangely, the Christmas Day Strictly didn't make BBC HD's top ten, but it was No 7 in the BBC1 ratings

Top Gear isn't in HD, unless you count the one-off Polar edition.

[6950rpm]

The Top Gear polar special was in HD but the last series however was not.

[uno]

There is a interview in this weeks broadcast trade magazine with Danielle Nagler and she states in that its expected that it will increase to 9 hours a day from March and that they are hoping for more HD content.

[Sandman]

The title of this thread is very misleading.

[Andrew277]

Originally Posted by Sandman

The title of this thread is very misleading.

I was looking for a link to a news item from the Beeeeb

[deezel]

Originally Posted by Sandman

The title of this thread is very misleading.

yes, taking a second look I can see it being interpreted in several ways.

..still, once reading the opening post there really can be no doubt

[kylesom]

Originally Posted by 6950rpm

The Top Gear polar special was in HD but the last series however was not.

Top Gear is one show I would pay to see in HD. It's crying out for it. Come on BBC.

[nwhitfield]

Who actually makes Top Gear? Remember that it's not necessarily just a case of the BBC saying "We want this in HD," but also of independent producers being confident enough of an ongoing revenue stream to update all their equipment and facilities.

The BBC regulations for HD specify that only a certain percentage of content in an HD program can be SD, and that can also cause some issues.

For the specials, where Top Gear isn't studio-bound, it's probably not that much different from other 'on the road' shows, like the Joanna Lumley Northern Lights one; you need a crew with a couple of cameras to go along and shoot in HD.

For the main episodes of the show, however, remember that there's a large space that needs to be kitted out, well away from TVC, and I don't think it's used for filming much else. So, if it has fixed cameras, then those need to be updated, as well as any on-site infrastructure used for editing; you need very mobile cameras for the audience sections of the show, you need to ensure that you either have HD in-car cams for the track testing, or make sure the proportion of that used is kept low enough to qualify for HD.

Other shows can just go straight into the already-equipped studios at TVC (or a few other places), and not have to worry. Things that film in other studios or locations may well be hampered by decisions previously made in those places.

The BBC may have licence fee money, but that doesn't necessarily follow through to all the producers - and even where stuff is a BBC production, they'll presumably be prioritising - upgrading a studio at TVC is obviously a more effective way to get more HD programmes on air than spending the cash on equipping an aircraft hangar for HD that's only used by one programme.

HD will get to most programmes, eventually, but it's going to take time. Remember that there are potentially only about 1 millions households at present that can receive HD programming in the UK. Audience figures are lower than that, as most HD households are also multi-channel homes too. The BBC is fairly cautious these days - partly because of trash newspapers that would love to give it a kicking along the lines of "BBC spends X million of YOUR money upgrading a studio for just 500,000 viewers."

Meanwhile, the BBC have long had a plan to increase the number of hours on HD - as was stated right back when the service proposal was first drawn up as part of the Public Value Test, and that did anticipate increasing around 2009; as we get more take-up, via Freesat and later in the year HD on Freeview in DSO regions, then there'll be more material.

Nigel.

[cragllo]

I for one have seen a rise in new HD programming on BBC HD since the new year. Hustle is back and in HD, new show Life of Riley, The Green Green Grass, Antiques Roadshow, Lark Rise to Crandleford. Survivors is HD, Live at the Apollo. Among a ton of others... Torchwood and countless new documentary's.

The HD content is there, but British series are so short I guess people forget fast.

Merlin could have done with some HD loving, but that was a really independent production.

[Kryptix]

As sad as it sounds, I'd love Eastenders in HD. Why they can't do it is beyond me.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by cragllo

Merlin could have done with some HD loving, but that was a really independent production.

And I think that there was a comment in the BBC HD blog regarding that - the (French?) production crew had no training in the use of HD filming/production equipment, so a decision was reluctantly taken to produce it in SD.

[nwhitfield]

Eastenders in HD is on the cards; but it's also tied in with a complete rebuild of all the sets, which are not a little on the old side, and won't look quite so convincing. For a major production like that, with a large permanent set, and a large crew, it's quite an undertaking.

A move to Pinewood has been mooted - I'm not sure what the status of that is - as part of the whole process. It will come, but it's not just as simple as moving something like Jonathan Ross or Later from one studio to another.

A quick google for "Eastenders HD" will probably bring you up to date.

[jammy86]

I'll go to freesat HD if the BBC put the F1 on it, but not before. To be honest, if I were the BBC I'd be doing a channel 4 and broadcasting BBC 1 and 2 in HD at all times in an effort to steal custom from SKY.

I wish they'd hurry up and bring us into the 21st century, but in the current economic climate......

JAmes.

[col996s]

Originally Posted by jammy86

I'll go to freesat HD if the BBC put the F1 on it, but not before. To be honest, if I were the BBC I'd be doing a channel 4 and broadcasting BBC 1 and 2 in HD at all times in an effort to steal custom from SKY.

I wish they'd hurry up and bring us into the 21st century, but in the current economic climate......

JAmes.

I for one would love MotoGP to be in HD but as with FI the BBC are dependent on local feeds for each race and these might not be in HD.

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by jammy86

I'll go to freesat HD if the BBC put the F1 on it, but not before. To be honest, if I were the BBC I'd be doing a channel 4 and broadcasting BBC 1 and 2 in HD at all times in an effort to steal custom from SKY.

C4 isn't in HD at all times.

How do you think the BBC are suddenly going to be able to afford another transponder, never mind all new cameras, sets, studios, film rights etc etc to do two channels in full time HD ?

[col996s]

We get "In the Night Garden" in HD every night what more could we want?

[son_t]

Originally Posted by Kryptix

As sad as it sounds, I'd love Eastenders in HD. Why they can't do it is beyond me.

Ugly mug-shots of the characters/actors in HD - yuk! No thanks

[nwhitfield]

Kids programmes are actually, despite what some have suggested elsewhere here, one of the things that can bring in huge amounts of revenue through international sales. Early in 2008, it was reported that rights to In the night garden had already been sold to 19 countries, with others to follow, and sales performance was outstripping the early performance of Teletubbies.

There are, then, pretty solid reasons for making such an internationally saleable programme in HD.

If it wasn't actually shown on the HD channel in the UK, I'm sure someone would be along to complain that it was another example of things being made in HD and not shown in it.

And is there actually much commercial programming for kids in HD? Any at all? The BBC has to cater for everyone, so why should children specifically be ignored in the scheduling for BBC HD?

As for simulcasting, that's been gone over and over; sure, simulcast BBC1 & 2, upscaling SD programmes - and what would that really achieve, other than to cost twice as much in transmission costs? SD stuff can look better when it's upscaled, but I'd rather have proper HD - which is what BBC HD concentrates on.

And, in particular, I'd rather have proper HD that includes programmes from other channels, like Mad Men from BBC4, than see the transponder space used up to upscale whatever old junk happens to be on BBC1 or BBC2.

Longer term, it's pretty likely there may be more channels - though it will be long term; just consider the hoops that the BBC is forced to jump through to launch any new service. But right now, with a small potential audience, I think it's entirely right that they cater to as wide a range of license payers as they can. So, there's worthy intellectual stuff and serious drama from BBC4, more mainstream stuff from BBC1 & 2, including sitcoms like Last of the Summer Wine and, yes, kids programmes too.

Some people might think that the programmes I've enjoyed, like Mad Men, or some of the documentaries and music from BBC4, are rubbish; that's your prerogative. But the point of the channel, surely, is to cater to all the license fee payers and viewers in their households, regardless of age or intellect.

Given the constraints upon the corporation, I think they're actually doing a pretty good job with BBC HD.

[u006852]

Do you think 2 hours of childrens TV in primetime every night on BBCHD is appropriate?

I for one certainly don't.

Children are already very well catered for with their own dedicated channels.

Although I would not go as far as to childrens TV should not be made in HD, it should be very low on the priority list. There are simply dozens of programs that are more appropriate and deserving to make in HD than the night garden for example.

OK, the BBC may be able to raise cash from flogging these programs to other countries but I really don't think that should be their priority. Delivering quality and value for money domestic PSB should be.

Something I am not sure they are doing with BBC3, BBC4 or HD.

MACAPACA!

[Jaycee Dove]

As noted the BBC are not in competition with Sky.

Sky are a pay TV network that you pay EXTRA to specifcally watch HD. This fee £120 per year x 600,000 subscribers helps fund the extra costs of running HD channels. The fee is why there are 30 Sky HD channels and just one and a half on Freesat. No money. No investment in luxuries like HD.

The BBC is funding HD as a minority right now because under a million people can see it compared with tens of millions for the other channels. As HD uptake increases (eg Freeview HD starts with the switchover later this year) then HD input from the BBC will increase.

In fact they start an hour earlier (from 5 pm) from next week. And their Christmas schedule was full of HD (much better than in 2007), Compare with ITV HD, funded by ads, and it had nothing at all in HD on Christmas day (as opposed to the BBC which had most of its prime time BBC 1 schedule).

There is a great variety of stuff on BBC HD from live OBs (trooping the colour, remberance service, royal parades and next week the Barrack Obama inaugeration) through excellent nature documentaries that showcase HD so well, to drama series, sit coms and live studio shows. Given thev circumstances I would not mind betting that BBC HD runs the best FTA state run HD channel in the world.

Of course, we would like more and anyone who has been with HD since day one (as we have) has seen this grow from then to now. But we have to bear in mind that HD access is developing over a several year time scale and there is a credit crunch. The BBC alsio got less money from the license fee than budgeted. They have to progress HD to a time table within the financial framework they have.

We are very lucky they took the plunge in 2006 as ITV have shown a modest committment to HD so far (2 - 3 programmes PER WEEK usually - as opposed to 5 or 6 PER DAY from the BBC!) and Channel 4 also only exists with help from Sky (why it is not on Freesat yet) and Five with lots of US HD series has been unable to even consider an HD channel launch.

So in a sense we should be grateful for what we do have.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by jammy86

I'll go to freesat HD if the BBC put the F1 on it, but not before.

There they seem to be dependent upon the F1 authorities

To be honest, if I were the BBC I'd be doing a channel 4 and broadcasting BBC 1 and 2 in HD at all times in an effort to steal custom from SKY.

A few problems:

1) The BBC does not necessarily have the capacity/bandwidth/funding to do that (especially as they are supposed to be "platform-neutral").

2) Not every studio/production facility had been upgraded to HD

3) And, importantly in this age when people complain vociferously about the slightest misdemeanour or fudging of the truth, a large part of any such BBC1/2 simulcast at this time would be upscaled SD material. I can just imagine the cries of fakery and that the BBC was duping its viewers by broadcasting a HD channel that contained upscaled SD programming.

I wish they'd hurry up and bring us into the 21st century, but in the current economic climate......

JAmes.

Yes, it all costs money.

[jammy86]

All valid points.

As for the F1 It would be dependent on the local TV feeds, but for the European races I don't think this would be a massive problem. tbh, if it was just the British GP that was in HD that would be good enough for me. There were two or three F1 races shown in cinemas last season, which were all in HD (or at least better than SD) were they not?

Capacity/bandwidth and studios just cost money, as we've all noted there isn't much about at the moment, that was my final point.

The point about HD broadcasts being SD upscaled is true though, however the number of people with HD tv's that would benefit from the broadcasts running in the correct resolution as its being upscaled at source (with proper expensive upscaling equipment rather than cheap built in scalers) I'd bet that most users would think that they were proper HD transmission. If the BBC admitted that alot of the programs were just upscaled SD from day one, I'm sure it would be accepted. Overall I'm sure it would be a significan improvement for LCD tv users, as we all know how LCD's dont like running at resolutions other than native.


JAmes.

[IanS]

Originally Posted by jammy86

If the BBC admitted that alot of the programs were just upscaled SD from day one, I'm sure it would be accepted.

Sadly I don't share that view, especially when you look at the way certain sections of the media are only too quick to jump at any small discrepancy or mis-selling. Add to that the propensity for people to jump on the comnplaints bandwagon even when they have not been directly affected, and I can see the BBC being more than cautious now, so as not to get embroiled in another "scandal" (real or imagined).

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by jammy86

All valid points.

As for the F1 It would be dependent on the local TV feeds, but for the European races I don't think this would be a massive problem. tbh, if it was just the British GP that was in HD that would be good enough for me. There were two or three F1 races shown in cinemas last season, which were all in HD (or at least better than SD) were they not?

Not the case any more. With the exception of the Japanese Grand Prix, and the Monaco Grand Prix, all of the F1 races are covered by F1 themselves these days.

The days of each local rights holder producing their domestic races are well and truly over. Whilst the UK rights holder (BBC and then ITV - though the resources ITV used were still the BBCs...) covered their races very well - often winning the F1 coverage award - other rights holders were shockingly bad - and F1 decided to bring the coverage in house.

So as almost all of the grand prix are now covered by F1 it is up to F1 to make an HD feed available - the local rights holders (apart from Fuji TV in Japan) aren't able to provide HD because they don't cover the races themselves.

The F1 Cinema feed is a total red herring - it was SD coverage upscaled to 720/50p, just as the ORF HD stuff was. Only the Fuji TV coverage of the Japanese Grand Prix is HD currently - though a few years ago the Aus Grand Prix was HD, before F1 took over production of that venue.

Frustratingly, the F1 coverage is being produced by HD capable cameras and production gear AIUI, it is just that either the HD feed isn't made available, or they haven't switched to HD production (There may be some SD kit still in use I guess - or maybe Bernie is keeping his powder dry)

[Stephen Neal]

As the BBC will only have a single HD slot on Freeview HD - I think the current BBC HD model will continue - rather than a BBC One HD, BBC Two HD, BBC Three HD and BBC Four HD model.

(Given that quite a lot of HD output is commissioned by BBC Four we would lose some HD if the BBC only simulcast BBC One and Two in HD...)