[neoglow]

Hey everyone, the other day I stumbled accross my old Sky box and plugged it in to a secondary cable from the Sky Dish outside, thinking owww maybe by some lucky chance it would work and I would get Sky again, to my utter suprise...it worked! Well kind of...let me explain...

Downstairs we have SkyHD and the full Sky TV package, up until about a year ago, we also had a Sky (not Sky+) Multi-room subscription to the TV upstairs so Sky could be watched independently on two TV's (£10 extra per month I think it was) That Multiroom subscription was cancelled but the satelitte cable running from the dish remained.

When I connect it back up to the old Sky box with the original Viewing card and to a TV, I still get perfect picture on lots of channels other than the normal terrestrial 1,2,3 and 4. I can pickup Film4, E4 etc and many other channels.

Am I correct in thinking that the Sky Dish is picking up Freesat or Freeview? If so, what is the difference between the two? How can I tell which one I am receiving and which is better?

Many Thanks, M.

[Broadz]

Why did you think it wouldn't work?

You're obviously receiving Freesat channels - FREE because you aren't paying for them, and SAT because you are receiving them through your satellite dish. Just like every other Freesat viewer, whether they are using a Sky box, a Freesat box, an independent satellite digibox, a computer satellite receiver or a Freesat television.

Freeview is only available through a TV aerial - but guess what, that's FREE also...

(I take it you don't have much concept of what a satellite digibox is, and what it is capable of? Sky can't stop you receiving FTA channels on the box, whether you pay them for their subscription television or not. When you were paying for Sky multiroom on that box, you weren't paying for BBC, ITV, Film4, the shopping channels etc. They were there whether you had a subscription or not, because they are FREE. You are now only seeing the free ones, because you are no longer paying for the subscription channels.)

[fuzzlewoof]

Only problem with receiving freesat this way is the EPG shows all the encrypted channels still. A dedicated freesat box only shows the free channels.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by neoglow

Hey everyone, the other day I stumbled accross my old Sky box and plugged it in to a secondary cable from the Sky Dish outside, thinking owww maybe by some lucky chance it would work and I would get Sky again, to my utter suprise...it worked! Well kind of...let me explain...

Downstairs we have SkyHD and the full Sky TV package, up until about a year ago, we also had a Sky (not Sky+) Multi-room subscription to the TV upstairs so Sky could be watched independently on two TV's (£10 extra per month I think it was) That Multiroom subscription was cancelled but the satelitte cable running from the dish remained.

When I connect it back up to the old Sky box with the original Viewing card and to a TV, I still get perfect picture on lots of channels other than the normal terrestrial 1,2,3 and 4. I can pickup Film4, E4 etc and many other channels.

Am I correct in thinking that the Sky Dish is picking up Freesat or Freeview? If so, what is the difference between the two? How can I tell which one I am receiving and which is better?

Many Thanks, M.

Guess what if you take out your card you will only lose about 5 or 6 channels. These are the encrypted channels but are still free. To explain a bit more there are 3 types of transmisions from the four Astra and One Eurobird satellite (Astra2A, Astra2B, Astra2C, Astra2D and Eurobird 1) and contrary to popular myth none of these belong to Sky. Channels are broadcast either without encryption (in the clear), this is known as Free To Air. Alternatively they may be broadcast scrambled (Encrypted) and require a viewing card to watch, you usually have to pay a subscription to get the card to unscramble the picture but not always. Typically these are Sky's own channels but there are a few that are encrypted to stop the rest of Europe watching for free, these are known as free to view (FTV).

Any satellite box can tune into the FTA channels. Freesat is simply a broadcast fancy electronic programme guide to some of the FTA channels who pay to be part of the Freesat epg, you can still watch all the hundreds of others in non freesat mode just as you can on your Sky box by using add channels.

When you stopped paying your Sky subscription you simply lost the ability to watch the channels you paid to watch, but you can still watch the FTV channels (Your old card is required to enable FTV decryption)

Sadly mostly because of Sky's misleading publicity there are probably thousands of people paying Sky and only watching TV channels they could watch for free.

As to your question which one is better depends what you mean. The sattellite chanels you are now watching are the same channels you always watched and paid through the nose for. If you mean which gives the better picture Freeview (From an aerial) or the same channels from Satellite then for Standard Definition TV (assuming you have a good freeview signal) then for most channels Freeview has better quality pictures as it generally uses a higher bit rate than Satellite. ITV 1 is especialy poor from Satellite as not only is a low bit rate used, it actually uses less pixels

[neoglow]

Thanks for the replies guys! I see what you mean now about having a viewing card to decrypt some channels, I found that I cannot receive Sky 1 or 2 but with the viewing card in the sky box I can get Sky 3!

Any satellite box can tune into the FTA channels. Freesat is simply a broadcast fancy electronic programme guide to some of the FTA channels who pay to be part of the Freesat epg, you can still watch all the hundreds of others in non freesat mode just as you can on your Sky box by using add channels.

Could you explain 'adding channels'?

Lastly, is there any FTA High Definition channels? Im guessing I would need a HD box to replace the sky one I have to receive them and a HD ready TV to show them in 720 or 1080?

Sorry all the questions, but you have all really helped me out!

M.

[Broadz]

Originally Posted by neoglow

Lastly, is there any FTA High Definition channels? Im guessing I would need a HD box to replace the sky one I have to receive them and a HD ready TV to show them in 720 or 1080?

BBC HD and Luxe HD. On a Sky HD box you can also receive C4HD (with a viewing card). On a true Freesat box you can also receive ITVHD - when it is transmitted. Whether ITV HD ever becomes available via a Sky HD box is still unknown. A standard Sky box (or a standard Freesat box) can't receive either. And obviously, a HD television is needed to display the high definition broadcast.

[Broadz]

Originally Posted by fuzzlewoof

A dedicated freesat box only shows the free channels.

But not all the free channels. Only the ones who've paid "Freesat" to appear in their EPG.

[arthurdentpc]

Originally Posted by Broadz

BBC HD and Luxe HD.

Can I ask, how do I get Luxe HD on Freesat - what frequency is it on ?

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by neoglow

Thanks for the replies guys! I see what you mean now about having a viewing card to decrypt some channels, I found that I cannot receive Sky 1 or 2 but with the viewing card in the sky box I can get Sky 3!



Could you explain 'adding channels'?

Lastly, is there any FTA High Definition channels? Im guessing I would need a HD box to replace the sky one I have to receive them and a HD ready TV to show them in 720 or 1080?

Sorry all the questions, but you have all really helped me out!

M.

All sky boxes have a menu option add channels, this puts you in a mode where you can tune in manually any fta channels not on the epg (On a freesat box it's called non freesat mode, other than that it functions just the same). This is the same facility that you have on fta sat box (there are hundreds some as cheap as £20.00). To understand this you need a little knowledge about how satellite works. Each satellite has a number of transmitters called transponders, every transponder has a combination of parameters that the sat box has to now in order to tune to the transponder.

Each transponder transmits multiple TV and radio stations digitally multiplexed together. (This is the same as freeview where one UHF channel has multiple radio and TV channels, on Freeview this is called a MUX).

The parameters are Frequency, Polarisation, Symbol Rate and Error Correction (don't worry too much about this as your Sky box has a database of all these). As an example Channel 4 London is on 10714(Frequency) H (Horizontal Polarisation) 27500 (Symbol Rate) and 5/6 (error correction). If you scroll to these numbers in the add channels dialogue and press search you will find channel 4 london as well as loads as others. If you want just to add a few channels you need this info (LyngSat - Lyngemark Satellite and look at Astra2 and Eurobird 1 and look at the channels in the clear). If however you want to add them all select auto and let the sky box look for them all. Save the result and now go back to your Sky box normal menus and you will find an other channels option, this will list all the hundreds of extra channels you have added. (most of them are pretty dire you may well want to delete a lot of them).

In respect of what's available for free on HD.

Essentially there is BBC HD and Luxe HD transmitted FTA, Ch4 HD transmitted FTV and ITV HD which is not really a channel at all it's broadcast as a simulcast to ITV 1 as a data stream from Eurobird 1. (Because Eurobird 1 signals are available across Europe and Freesat can't use encryption access to this data stream on a freesat box means that you have to press a red button whilst the HD programme data stream is present. (It's not as many think, to stop Sky customers getting it Sky boxes don't have the software to tune the HD stream).

To summarise you can get the 2 fta channels (BBC and Luxe) on any HD box

To get ITV HD you need a HD freesat box or some hda fta boxes (most HD fta boxes allow you to manually input the data stream parameters so it looks like a regular channel)

Because it's FTV you currently need a Sky HD box to watch CH4 HD (no subscription) required. It's strongly rumoured that after solving contractual problems with Sky and resolving broadcasting rights issues that CH4 HD will go fta in 2009 and will also join the Freesat epg club

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by arthurdentpc

Can I ask, how do I get Luxe HD on Freesat - what frequency is it on ?

You can't its fta but not on the freesat epg. It's tunable in non freesat mode on 11428 H 27500 2/3 (great pictures but ultimately very boring - watch it for a while to see what I mean)

[neoglow]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

As an example Channel 4 London is on 10714(Frequency) H (Horizontal Polarisation) 27500 (Symbol Rate) and 5/6 (error correction). If you scroll to these numbers in the add channels dialogue and press search you will find channel 4 london as well as loads as others.

If you want just to add a few channels you need this info (LyngSat - Lyngemark Satellite and look at Astra2 and Eurobird 1 and look at the channels in the clear). If however you want to add them all select auto and let the sky box look for them all.

Thanks for the in depth reply! I tried tuning to Ch4 London with those details but it says not satelitte signal received?

As for the Sky box I have (not very old from a recent Sky installation) its one of the white Amstrad ones, I dont think it has an 'Auto' option to search for channels, is this an option on other set top boxes or Sky+ or SkyHD boxes?

M.

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by neoglow

Thanks for the in depth reply! I tried tuning to Ch4 London with those details but it says not satelitte signal received?

As for the Sky box I have (not very old from a recent Sky installation) its one of the white Amstrad ones, I dont think it has an 'Auto' option to search for channels, is this an option on other set top boxes or Sky+ or SkyHD boxes?

M.

Very strange. In add channels mode what channels did you find on the transponder I quoted. Also try other transponders in the list as your dish might need slight realignment. Pretty sure all sky boxes have the auto option as they are built to the same spec. It might be labelled all channels on the add channels search page.

[neoglow]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

Very strange. In add channels mode what channels did you find on the transponder I quoted. Also try other transponders in the list as your dish might need slight realignment. Pretty sure all sky boxes have the auto option as they are built to the same spec. It might be labelled all channels on the add channels search page.

On the Sky box, I go to, Services > System Setup > Add Channels, input the details you provided but nothing comes up, even with a search for this Luxe channel using the details - 11428 H 27500 2/3. I do not get Luxe show up, only a couple other channels. Using 10714(Frequency) H (Horizontal Polarisation) 27500 (Symbol Rate) and 5/6 (error correction) brings up nothing.

According to my sky box Signal Test I have around 80% bar for Signal Strength and just over half - around 60% bar for Signal Quality.

In the Add Channels menu I have Frequency, Poloarisation, Symbol Rate (Mbaud), FEC and Find Channels. Find Channels only works when the values have been put in the above 4 headings. (Freq, Pol, Sym and FEC)

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by neoglow

On the Sky box, I go to, Services > System Setup > Add Channels, input the details you provided but nothing comes up, even with a search for this Luxe channel using the details - 11428 H 27500 2/3. I do not get Luxe show up, only a couple other channels. Using 10714(Frequency) H (Horizontal Polarisation) 27500 (Symbol Rate) and 5/6 (error correction) brings up nothing.

You wont get Luxe TV on that transponder it's a High Definition channel and you only have a sd box

According to my sky box Signal Test I have around 80% bar for Signal Strength and just over half - around 60% bar for Signal Quality.

The quality is very low mine's 100% on most transponders. This could explain why you are not getting all the transponders. Sounds as if your dish might need a tweak.

In the Add Channels menu I have Frequency, Poloarisation, Symbol Rate (Mbaud), FEC and Find Channels. Find Channels only works when the values have been put in the above 4 headings. (Freq, Pol, Sym and FEC)

I will dig out my old Sky box manual tommorow to see how to do a full Astra scan. I have done it many times but not for at least 12 months. Are you sure if you scroll up through the transponder list you don't get an all option.

[arthurdentpc]

Originally Posted by neoglow

even with a search for this Luxe channel using the details - 11428 H 27500 2/3. I do not get Luxe show up, only a couple other channels.

Funny, I didn't get Luxe HD either - just something called Shorts TV which I hadn't seen before, and a few radio channels.
The Bush HD receiver I'm using doesn't allow you to change from 3/4 though - you can only change the frequency, polarity and 27500 (etc), but I'm assuming in the background it does a sweep of all possible 2/3 and 3/4 etc values. They wouldn't miss that basic option out - would they ?

EDIT - Just looked at Lyngsat for this frequency and it doesn't have Luxe listed either ?

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson

I will dig out my old Sky box manual tommorow to see how to do a full Astra scan. I have done it many times but not for at least 12 months. Are you sure if you scroll up through the transponder list you don't get an all option.

Dug out the manual. Mislead you a bit it was an old fta box I was thinking of. On the Sky box you have to scan each transponder in turn. Choose the chanells you want to add from the scan list and save them. There's about 400 radio & tv in total (A lot of which will already be on the Sky epg)

There's a list here (A bit out of date)

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