[Dracutus]

Just read on Trusted Reviews that ITV hd will launch on Sky officially on 2nd of April. What this also means is that ITV hd will stop being a red button service on Freesat, and will become like 4HD, ie a full service with a combination of Upscalled and HD programing..goodnews methinks.

[Geofbob]

Thanks - will be far more straightfoward than the current situation - especially when you change channels & return to the non-Red Button SD service.

But of course 4HD isn't on Freesat.

[lbear]

Originally Posted by Dracutus

What this also means is that ITV hd will stop being a red button service on Freesat, and will become like 4HD, ie a full service with a combination of Upscalled and HD programing..goodnews methinks.

To put it another way, ITV1 hd on satellite will become the same as the service on Freeview - an upscalled SD service with one programme a day in true HD if you are lucky. Who knows, they may even show upscaled movies, something they have signally failed to do on Freeview HD due to rights issues.

[PICKY737]

Originally Posted by Geofbob

But of course 4HD isn't on Freesat.

On the official Freeview website it says that 4HD is coming soon so surely that must mean it will be available on the Freesat platform as well unless the satellite side of it is still tied to Sky.

Off the Freeview website
"Channel 4 HD will launch very soon along with an S4C channel in HD in Wales"

[Geofbob]

Originally Posted by PICKY737

On the official Freeview website it says that 4HD is coming soon so surely that must mean it will be available on the Freesat platform as well unless the satellite side of it is still tied to Sky.

Off the Freeview website
"Channel 4 HD will launch very soon along with an S4C channel in HD in Wales"

Freeview & Freesat are different services - otherwise, why are Dave, Sky Sports News & Sky 3 on the former, but not the latter; & vice versa for True Movies, Movies4Men & quite a few other channels?

The limiting factors for Ch 4 HD on Freesat are a lack of space on Astra 2D & the contract with Sky - both obstacles will probably be overcome sometime, but not quite yet.

[Rick1]

The real issue is Bandwidth availability on Astra 2D. Freeview has a limited reception area, with possibly a few people on the Irish border, and the French coast able to view. Astra 2A and B and EB1 have a Europe wide beam, where as 2D is tight focus on the UK. All the freesat channels are broadcast on 2D to help prevent overseas viewing, it's all to do with overseas broadcast rights.

Once the new birds are launched, the first planned for 2012, there should be an increase in capacity and hopefully Freesat can expand a little with oppertunity for channels like 4HD and Dave to go FTA on satellite.

http://www.techwatch.co.uk/forums/71...g-ordered.html

[lbear]

The immediate plans for DVB-T2 transmissions are for four, with an increase to five HD slots available. Eventually all the terrestrial MUXes will convert to DVB-T2 but this of course will be dependant on the number of boxes in use and the political will to go through another sequence of receiving equipment becoming obsolete. I envisage a gradual conversion of MUXes to DVB-T2 until the last will carry the "analogue 5" of BBC1, BBC2, ITV, Channel 4 and Five. The converted MUXes would, of course, carry a mixture of new HD channels but also the existing low bandwidth stations in SD. It would be rather unlikely to have HD versions of the shopping channels or the "babe-stations". It is also probably unlikely that news stations will convert to HD. You can already see the pointlessness of that with the Sky rebroadcasts of the US news "in HD" where their sources often mean they are shown in SD 5:4 with graphics "side bars" to fill the 16:9 format.

Even given these restraints, there is a limit to the number of HD stations on Freeview due to the limited frequencies available. That does not apply to satellite broadcasts (so much) so the practical limits will be determined by the number of narrow beam transponders focussed on the UK that are available together with the availability of HD content.

[pdoherty76]

Originally Posted by lbear

To put it another way, ITV1 hd on satellite will become the same as the service on Freeview - an upscalled SD service with one programme a day in true HD if you are lucky. Who knows, they may even show upscaled movies, something they have signally failed to do on Freeview HD due to rights issues.

That isn't what the press release says. They say they will transimit the majority of their prime time programming in native HD.

One programme a day "if your lucky" is simply untrue. Many weekends, for example, have 4 programs per day at the moment and according to the press release this will increase. I have seen 3 true HD films on ITV HD in one saturday and 4 HD football matches in 2 days. Their output is better than channel 4 IMO, and if the majority of primnetime goes HD they will be easily ahead of 4HD.

[lbear]

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

That isn't what the press release says. They say they will transimit the majority of their prime time programming in native HD.

One programme a day "if your lucky" is simply untrue..

Here is the schedule for the 8 days covering from last to next Thursday courtesy of JoinFreesat.co.uk

Thursday 11th March 2010 (9.00pm) The Bill
Saturday 13th March 2010 (10.30am) Lion County
Saturday 13th March 2010 (4.50pm) Mr Bean’s Holiday (film)
Sunday 14th March 2010 (8.30pm) Wild at Heart
Sunday 14th March 2010 (11.15pm) Piers Morgan on Marbella
Sunday 14th March 2010 (12.10am) Champions League Weekly
Monday 15th March 2010 (9.00pm) Married Single Other
Monday 15th March 2010 (10.35pm) Bird on a Wire (film)
Tuesday 16th March 2010 (9.00pm) Law & Order: UK
Wednesday 17th March 2010 (7.30pm) UEFA Champions League: Barcelona v Stuttgart
Thursday 18th March 2010 (9.00pm) The Bill

Take out the football or a film and you are down to one or fewer programmes in HD most days. Note none on Friday and none in prime time on Saturday. "Law and Order UK" is being promoted as "another chance to see", in other words, a repeat. In that entire week, there are exactly four original productions made by ITV.

The Freeview HD version of ITV1 HD has shown exactly 0 films since it began due to rights problems. That includes both HD and upscaled SD. Given these problems, it is a fair bet that non-HD films on Freesat will be broadcast in SD only and not "remastered HD" as ITV1 HD put it

[pdoherty76]

Originally Posted by lbear

Here is the schedule for the 8 days covering from last to next Thursday courtesy of JoinFreesat.co.uk

Thursday 11th March 2010 (9.00pm) The Bill
Saturday 13th March 2010 (10.30am) Lion County
Saturday 13th March 2010 (4.50pm) Mr Bean’s Holiday (film)
Sunday 14th March 2010 (8.30pm) Wild at Heart
Sunday 14th March 2010 (11.15pm) Piers Morgan on Marbella
Sunday 14th March 2010 (12.10am) Champions League Weekly
Monday 15th March 2010 (9.00pm) Married Single Other
Monday 15th March 2010 (10.35pm) Bird on a Wire (film)
Tuesday 16th March 2010 (9.00pm) Law & Order: UK
Wednesday 17th March 2010 (7.30pm) UEFA Champions League: Barcelona v Stuttgart
Thursday 18th March 2010 (9.00pm) The Bill

Take out the football or a film and you are down to one or fewer programmes in HD most days. Note none on Friday and none in prime time on Saturday. "Law and Order UK" is being promoted as "another chance to see", in other words, a repeat. In that entire week, there are exactly four original productions made by ITV.

The Freeview HD version of ITV1 HD has shown exactly 0 films since it began due to rights problems. That includes both HD and upscaled SD. Given these problems, it is a fair bet that non-HD films on Freesat will be broadcast in SD only and not "remastered HD" as ITV1 HD put it

The amount of HD has varied. It depends on the time of year. Not long ago, sunday evenings on ITV had 4 consecutive programmes in HD. Before christmas, ITV HD showed all 6 star wars movies in HD in sequence on saturday afternoons. They have rarely had a HD programme on a friday which I must admit is very strange.

According to a poster on digital spy, here is some confirmed upcoming ITV content in HD:


- UEFA Champions League
- FA Cup
- England internationals
- FIFA World Cup 2010

- Father & Son
- Law and Order: UK
- Identity
- The Prisoner
- Foyles War
- Lewis

- Joanna Lumley’s Nile
- Greatest Cities of the World with Griff Rhys Jones
- Survival with Ray Mears

- The Whole 19 Yards
- 71 Degrees North
- Soccer Aid
- Britain’s Got Talent

- ITV1’s Prime Ministerial debate

Add to this list the regular programs like The Bill in HD, as well as films such as Harry Potter that they are starting to show on 20th March and it is clear that ITV are really getting their act together.

In particular, Britains got talent in HD is big because the final of that show last year got something like 19 million viewers. Imagine the HD viewers it could attract. ITV1 HD could well become the most watched HD channel in the country.

[lbear]

Like ITV1 HD, I repeat "Law and Order UK" is "another chance to see" series 1 unless the press release specifically mentions series 2. You may also note the wording of the press release:

"In factual programming there’s the chance to see Joanna Lumley’s Nile, Greatest Cities of the World with Griff Rhys Jones, and the brand new Survival with Ray Mears all in pure HD."

So "Nile" and "Greatest Cities ..." are also repeats of programmes originally made (by independent companies owned by the stars?) in HD probably with a view to the US export market.

There is no time scale given for the programmes but it looks suspiciously like a big push for the formal launch followed by drought in July after the World Cup and the end of the football season in England and Europe.

Nowhere I can see has the problem of their rights to show upscaled versions of their SD movies has been addressed. This rights problems has extended to the terrestrial showing of true HD movies and to the Bond back catalogue which Sky has the UK HD rights for. You may like to check the position of the Harry Potter films as that surely would have been a major part of the press release and I suspect that means again that Sky have bought exclusive HD rights. On the EPGs of ITV1 London on Freesat and ITV1 HD on Freeview, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is simply shown as "AD, S" with no indication of HD, not even "Remastered HD" as they call upscaled SD. I presume ITV1 HD on Freesat will have its own channel number as on Freeview and like BBC HD. So unless they turn off the upscaling or sort out the rights issues, viewers on both platforms will have the "Programme unavailable, please tune to your local ITV1 station" graphic as currently used by ITV1 HD on Freeview during the showing of all films.

The press release of 12 March says this:

"The ITV1 schedule will be simulcast on the new channel, with the majority of peak time content available in ‘native’ HD, including all live football, and an increasing range of drama, factual and entertainment programming. Other ITV1 content including GMTV and the daytime schedule, will be ‘upscaled’ – giving viewers a better than ever experience of the nation’s most popular commercial channel."

So they are going down the tried and trusted Sky route of pushing football as a means of attracting viewers to new services when surely their main target audience is women. Its claim that the "majority of peak time content" will be in true HD has no time scale for implimentation and clearly will not be immediate judging by the part I highlighted. Even then its total HD offer will still be less than BBC HD's 7 hours plus a day. The lesson here is be very sceptical about what you read in press releases. If you believed everything they said, all the BBC's own generated programming would be in HD by this year.

[Wideband]

Originally Posted by lbear

You may like to check the position of the Harry Potter films as that surely would have been a major part of the press release and I suspect that means again that Sky have bought exclusive HD rights. On the EPGs of ITV1 London on Freesat and ITV1 HD on Freeview, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone is simply shown as "AD, S" with no indication of HD, not even "Remastered HD" as they call upscaled SD. I presume ITV1 HD on Freesat will have its own channel number

Harry Potter has the HD flag on freesat in my area, and on checking ITV1 London, I note that has it as well.

Channel 119 for ITV HD on freesat I believe.

[imilne]

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Before christmas, ITV HD showed all 6 star wars movies in HD in sequence on saturday afternoons.

I think they were just upscaled. They didn't look very HD (to me).

Mr Bean this weekend was HD for sure though, looking very pristine (shame about the film itself). It was even lacking the DOG for a while, until someone noticed and switched it back on

[lbear]

Originally Posted by Wideband

[/LEFT]

Harry Potter has the HD flag on freesat in my area, and on checking ITV1 London, I note that has it as well.

Channel 119 for ITV HD on freesat I believe.

Well I just did a rescan of Freesat channels and no channel 119 came up. That could of course be because I am in London and ITV1 HD will be a simulcast of ITV1 London complete with an upscaled "London Tonight" as local news (as it is on Freeview channel 51 at the moment). With any luck, they will get rid of the big notice to retune at least for London Freeview HD viewers.

Just before I started writing this I checked the EPGs on Freesat 103 , Freeview 3 (ITV London) and Freeview 51. On the first two, Harry Potter and the PS are shown as above, ie "[AD, S]". On Freeview 51 in the London area, the EPG states "Programme not available". This is a change from last night when it was shown on the EPG but without the HD flag.

AD is "Audio Description" and should not be confused with HD.

[Davey H]

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Before christmas, ITV HD showed all 6 star wars movies in HD in sequence on saturday afternoons.

Originally Posted by imilne

I think they were just upscaled. They didn't look very HD (to me).

IIRC, Sky had exlusive rights to show Star Wars in HD.

So your probably right...........

[Ray_Woodward]

New (as yet empty) channel label has appeared on 10.832 GHz Hor. SR:22000 FEC:5/6 (Astra 2D) Label: 10000.

Presumably ITV1 HD related ?

[Ray_Woodward]

Originally Posted by Rick1

T

Once the new birds are launched, the first planned for 2012,

Really? Then I suggest you inform SES Astra, since their parent company (SES) are in the belief that Astra 1N will be launched in Spring next year and will provide 16 'Astra "C" band' transponders (on its UK 'Spot Beam' @ 28.2 east) until it (along with Astra 2B) are replaced by Astra 2E in the summer of 2013 ...

SES - Upcoming Launches: 2010-2014

"ASTRA 1N will initially be positioned at ASTRA`s 28.2° East UK hotspot. ASTRA 1N will give interim additional UK 'spot beam' capacity in band C, before moving to 19.2E to replace ASTRA 1G"

[Wideband]

Originally Posted by lbear

Well I just did a rescan of Freesat channels and no channel 119 came up. That could of course be because I am in London and ITV1 HD will be a simulcast of ITV1 London complete with an upscaled "London Tonight" as local news (as it is on Freeview channel 51 at the moment). With any luck, they will get rid of the big notice to retune at least for London Freeview HD viewers.

Just before I started writing this I checked the EPGs on Freesat 103 , Freeview 3 (ITV London) and Freeview 51. On the first two, Harry Potter and the PS are shown as above, ie "[AD, S]". On Freeview 51 in the London area, the EPG states "Programme not available". This is a change from last night when it was shown on the EPG but without the HD flag.

AD is "Audio Description" and should not be confused with HD.

ITV HD has not launched yet as a channel on freesat - 2nd April.

I am not confusing AD with HD, the HD flag, and therefore option to record in HD, is present on the Foxsat HDR.

[Stiggy]

Yes, I saw on another forum this is likely where the new permenant ITV 1 HD will be.

[TonyA]

Channel 119 on the Freesat EPG

[pdoherty76]

Originally Posted by imilne

I think they were just upscaled. They didn't look very HD (to me).

Mr Bean this weekend was HD for sure though, looking very pristine (shame about the film itself). It was even lacking the DOG for a while, until someone noticed and switched it back on

No, the star wars films were definitely HD. Some looked better than others. The third one looked incredible. I don't know what caused the difference.

ITV HD on freesat have never shown an upscaled film that was advertised as HD. There have been a few occasions on the football when the HD stream went wrong and they went upscaled but everything else has been true HD, and mostly better than what the BBC now offers.

[lbear]

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

No, the star wars films were definitely HD. Some looked better than others. The third one looked incredible. I don't know what caused the difference.

ITV HD on freesat have never shown an upscaled film that was advertised as HD. There have been a few occasions on the football when the HD stream went wrong and they went upscaled but everything else has been true HD, and mostly better than what the BBC now offers.

On the Freeview HD EPG, upscaled programmes are declared as "Remastered HD". All films, whether native HD or upscaled are currently blanked out on the terrestrial HD platform. This Digital Spy thread gives the background
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s....php?t=1225436

>Wideband

Now I am using a Foxsat HD, (not an HDR) and a HD Fox T2, both accessing London ITV. I have again rescanned the satellite box using the postcode for the ITV corporate HQ in SE1. No ITV1 HD on channel 119 has appeared - has it on your HDR and if so, what postcode did you use? What does the EPG for Freesat 119 show for that slot on Saturday?

The situation on my London ITV settings is still exactly as I described. No mention of HD on Freesat 103 or Freeview 3 but "Programme not available" on Freeview 51.

Tonight's film "Bird on a Wire" you may note is on the list of HD programmes however it is currently showing as not in HD on the Freesat EPG and "Programme not available" on Freeview 51. Will check back and report on the situation later.

UPDATE:
The problem appears to originate with the Freesat EPG.

"Bird on a Wire", tonight's film is not flagged as being in HD on the Freesat EPG yet it is actually available via the red button. As I predicted, the DTT version on Freeview 51 is not showing it but has a graphic "This programme is not available on ITV1 HD".

I have now done several retunes on the Freesat box so I have checked the EPGs for London, Anglia E, Anglia S and Central W. All the HD flags appear to have been wiped, including for programmes known to be in HD like Law and Order UK, Wednesday's UEFA football and The Bill. This is presumably in advance of the introduction of Freesat 119 to stop people setting EPG reminders or recordings that will become invalid after 2 April or before if they start broadcasting in advance of the formal launch. People are already noted that a new channel labelled 10000 is on the non-Freesat list which has a HD flag and the brief Dolby DOG.

Freeview Channel 51 from Crystal Palace shows the known HD programmes with the full complement of AD, HD and S flags. All films are still listed as not available. I cannot imagine that the studios will allow ITV to get round paying for HD rights by upscaling so I think it quite likely that after launch, HD films will be shown on Freeview but others will either not be upscaled or blanked on both platforms.

[Wideband]

As per my earlier post

ITV HD does not launch on 119 until 2 April.

There is a difference in meaning between flagged as HD, and HD being mentioned in programme description/Synopsis.

The film currently on air is 'flagged' as HD on the HDR EPG, and is in fact recording in HD on my unit.

All the other ITV programmes you have mentioned are flagged as HD.....meaning an HD icon appears on the HDR EPG.

[lbear]

Originally Posted by Wideband

As per my earlier post

ITV HD does not launch on 119 until 2 April.

There is a difference in meaning between flagged as HD, and HD being mentioned in programme description/Synopsis.

The film currently on air is 'flagged' as HD on the HDR EPG, and is in fact recording in HD on my unit.

All the other ITV programmes you have mentioned are flagged as HD.....meaning an HD icon appears on the HDR EPG.

Well we could be calling different things the same name. I am referring to the programme descriptions in the EPG when at the end it has abbreviations for High Definition, audio description and stereo. Yes the red button prompt appears which when pressed takes you to the ITV1 HD service on Freesat. I have just checked and the programme description on there for Bird on the Wire does not have the HD indicator in the programme description. The only indication it is in HD is the "information box" accessed by pressing the i button on the remote control. On that, the 1080i symbol rather than the 576 symbol appears on the left hand side.

That actually means nothing as the same symbol is constant on Freeview 51 together with a specific HD symbol whether the programme is actually being broadcast in HD, "Remastered HD" or is replaced by a graphic saying the programme is not available. I have just checked this on both Foxsat HD and Fox T2 boxes.

Maybe you can tell me what you are calling the HD flag in more detail. It sounds like this is an additional indicator to tell the recorders to retune rather than rely on a manual red button press. Regardless, the simple fact is now that Foxsat HD box owners have no indication of what programme will be in HD.

[pdoherty76]

How are you watching freeview HD anyway? I thought there were no boxes available yet?

[pwood]

This issue with STV is really getting to the daft stage. No ITV HD for us up here is

Will the current method of circumventing it be available when the channel goes live albeit without the record facility?

[lbear]

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

How are you watching freeview HD anyway? I thought there were no boxes available yet?

The Humax HD Fox-T2 has been available for about a month. Mine was delivered on 24 February. They are widely available with Richer Sounds about the cheapest. The home network and USB media player links work but the recording function has not yet been implemented in the firmware by Humax and of course the iPlayer functions are dependent on the BBC porting the Freesat software to Freeview HD

More boxes are coming to the market soon. If you are really desperate to save money by purchasing an ugly Alba group one with a basic Freeview HD spec, the Bush is available from Argos at a pre-order price of under £100 if you go through their Homebase site. Currently it is not on the Argos.co.uk site.

You obviously need to be near a transmitter that has a working T2 MUX and Crystal Palace has been operational since before Christmas.

[lbear]

Originally Posted by pwood

This issue with STV is really getting to the daft stage. No ITV HD for us up here is

Will the current method of circumventing it be available when the channel goes live albeit without the record facility?

Depends what you are currently using and doing. You will be able to access it as a FTA non-Freesat station once it is on air and if you want to retain your other local services as Freesat.

The other option is to pretend to be in England so you get London ITV on channel 103 with the simulcast in HD/upscaled SD on channel 119. That would facilitate recording but of course you would then have to access STV and your regional BBC1 and BBC2 stations (but not BBC Alba) as non-Freesat channels.

I suspect the current get-round of having London ITV1 as channel 977 will not be available after a retune on 1 April. (Not a mistype, 2 April is a bank holiday as they are unlikely to do such a major shift then in case anything goes wrong and their call centre etc gets inundated with work)

[pdoherty76]

Originally Posted by lbear

The Humax HD Fox-T2 has been available for about a month. Mine was delivered on 24 February. They are widely available with Richer Sounds about the cheapest. The home network and USB media player links work but the recording function has not yet been implemented in the firmware by Humax and of course the iPlayer functions are dependent on the BBC porting the Freesat software to Freeview HD

More boxes are coming to the market soon. If you are really desperate to save money by purchasing an ugly Alba group one with a basic Freeview HD spec, the Bush is available from Argos at a pre-order price of under £100 if you go through their Homebase site. Currently it is not on the Argos.co.uk site.

You obviously need to be near a transmitter that has a working T2 MUX and Crystal Palace has been operational since before Christmas.

Thanks for the info. I have been out of the loop for a while and last I heard the T2 boxes were months away.

I would like to see one in action but, alas, I don't need one. I have a freesat HD box and a SKY HD box. I am in the granada region so I could pick up the signal.

The geek in me wants to get one from argos, try it out, then take it back.

[Wideband]

Originally Posted by lbear

Maybe you can tell me what you are calling the HD flag in more detail. It sounds like this is an additional indicator to tell the recorders to retune rather than rely on a manual red button press. Regardless, the simple fact is now that Foxsat HD box owners have no indication of what programme will be in HD.

foxsat-hdr - Review Links

Scroll down the page a little to the picture of the EPG.

Note the programme Apparitions is highlighted.

Series and HD icons appear under All Channels top right of EPG.