[David DG]

My new house only has a satellite dish and with the arrival of Freeview HD I've began wondering if I should install a new aerial. To those with an understanding of the technical and legal factors affecting the two technologies - Which is the best investment for the long term?

Thanks

[TonyA]

Either, or.... basically!

Both platforms will be around for a long time. I think a lot of people would advocate the use of both platforms, so that you get the maximum amount of channels. Most TV's have Freeview based tuners, and new ones will eventually have Freeview HD tuners built in - but they wont be around until later in the year.

So, at the moment, if you want HD, then go for Freesat. Otherwise, it will come down to specific channels e.g. if you love endless repeats of Top Gear, and can't live without "Dave" then you'll have to go with Freeview. If you want BBC HD, or CBS Action, then its Freesat (at the moment!).

Both of these technologies will face competition from IPTV in the future (TV via broadband) - especially from "Project Canvas" which has the likes of the BBC, ITV, Five, and BT behind it. But this is currently months, if not years away yet, but offers some damned interesting developments - there's a YouTube video here with a presentation by the BBC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smg_SKyoIU0

[David DG]

So is Freesat going to be around for a while then? I'm getting the impression that Freeview HD is the way forward and that Freesat just exists to meet the digital switch over target. Which format do you think will have the most HD channels in say 2-3 years time?

[TonyA]

Freesat will always have more channels. As a platform, Freesat is in its infancy at the moment. There will be more channels join up with Freesat over the next few years, especially when the new "narrow band" satellites go into orbit, which will essentially target the UK, and cut out the need for "scrambling" channels (which is an additional cost most broadcasters can live without!).

Don't forget, as well as the channels on the Freesat EPG, you also have access to other Free To Air (non-Freesat) satellite channels too - so there is a wide range of channels available, however, quantity doesn't always mean quality!

There is only so much terrestrial digital TV bandwidth available, and therefore the amount of channels on Freeview is pretty much fixed.

As for HD channels - that really depends on the broadcasters! Freesat has the capacity to carry far more HD channels than Freeview could ever cope with, without removing loads of SD channels to free up space.

[David DG]

so Freesat is technically superior and this is why loads more channels will join up and it has a bright future ahead... However surely sales are going to take a big hit when Freeview HD launches and people realise they haven't got to fork out for a satellite dish. Will this then affect the chances of more HD content appearing on Freesat?

Thanks for the video, I thought it was interesting at the end when he says that the technology exists but it requires everyone in the industry to work together. So basically it's going to take ages for it to become a reality.

[TonyA]

Originally Posted by dg.lander

so Freesat is technically superior and this is why loads more channels will join up and it has a bright future ahead... However surely sales are going to take a big hit when Freeview HD launches and people realise they haven't got to fork out for a satellite dish. Will this then affect the chances of more HD content appearing on Freesat?

Thanks for the video, I thought it was interesting at the end when he says that the technology exists but it requires everyone in the industry to work together. So basically it's going to take ages for it to become a reality.

Maybe new to "satellite" viewers may not take up with Freesat, when Freeview HD comes along, but the most Freeview will carry in HD will be around 5 channels, whereas on Freesat there can potentially carry loads more than that, so eventually it may just come down to channel choice.

Freesat is also a good choice for those who already have a $ky dish installed, and want to get rid of the subscription every month (something that drew me to Freesat from $ky, even though I already have Freeview).

The consortium behind Freesat will not just give up on it. They can't, the government has a remit to offer digital TV to everyone in the UK, and as some areas are so remote, that they can't get Freeview, then Freesat is their only choice.

HD content will come in time. We already have BBC and a part-time ITV 1, and Luxe HD in non-Freesat mode. A lot of this is currently tied down to either deals with Sky (such as C4HD), or down to the issue of territories, which is why things will change when the narrow-band satellites go into orbit. But give it time, and the channels will start appearing.

I don't think "Project Canvas" will take that long - there are some predictions that there could be boxes available by the end of this year. It's all very early days for it at the moment, but for my money, that's where broadcasting will be heading for the UK - no aerials, no satellite dishes, just a STB connected to broadband, and your telly, that will receive SD, HD, and do a heck of a lot more.

[logiciel]

Originally Posted by dg.lander

when Freeview HD launches and people realise they haven't got to fork out for a satellite dish.

The amount to fork out for the dish is tiny compared with the rest of the gear, and the new aerial that many would need for Freeview would cost about the same anyway.

[ped106]

can freesat, including the channels, i.e channel, five etc be viewed from abroad with suitable dish?

[Interceptor121]

Yes as long as you can reach Astra 2D you can watch freesat channels

[ped106]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

Yes as long as you can reach Astra 2D you can watch freesat channels

Thanks

[ciaran2506]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

Yes as long as you can reach Astra 2D you can watch freesat channels

You need Eurobird 1, slightly off at 28.5 not 28.2 as the EPG and ITV HD transmit from there

[chalky1977]

hi all
we have just moved house and had to decide which way to go because the house only had vigin tv the telestrial arial fell down.The cost of having a digital arial installed was lots mors than the cost ot me installing freesat myself so thats what i chose.I am now a bit concerned at the lack of advertising and think it may fold?

[derek500]

Originally Posted by chalky1977

hi all
we have just moved house and had to decide which way to go because the house only had vigin tv the telestrial arial fell down.The cost of having a digital arial installed was lots mors than the cost ot me installing freesat myself so thats what i chose.I am now a bit concerned at the lack of advertising and think it may fold?

Freesat is only an EPG. All the channels on Freesat's EPG are broadcast FTA and are available on any generic or Sky box.

If Freesat closes (which it won't), you'll still get all the channels.

[chalky1977]

why dont itv and the bbc promote and advertise freesat it makes no sense

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by chalky1977

why dont itv and the bbc promote and advertise freesat it makes no sense

Because it's a ring fenced not for profit company. It's sole aim is to provide an epg that gives a similar service to freeview to those locations who currently can't and may never get a decent terrestrial signal. Adding extra stations to the epg won't make much difference as the inclusion fees are purely to cover the cost of actually providing the epg service.

[pdoherty76]

Originally Posted by chalky1977

why dont itv and the bbc promote and advertise freesat it makes no sense

Eh?

They do advertise freesat. Here are some videos of prime time adverts ITV has shown

YouTube - Freesat autumn advertising campaign - brilliant for everyone

Video: Watch an ad for Freesat | Media | guardian.co.uk


And here is a video of a BBC promo for freesat

YouTube - BBC HD Freesat Promo

Also, ITV shows 40 football matches per season, and in EVERY game the commentator tells viewers that they can watch in HD if they have freesat.

Admittedly, it isn't a sky type campaign with a blitz, but there must be at least 20 million sets of eyeballs that have seen these ads repeatedly.

[derek500]

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Eh?

They do advertise freesat. Here are some videos of prime time adverts ITV has shown.

And here is a video of a BBC promo for freesat.

Also, ITV shows 40 football matches per season, and in EVERY game the commentator tells viewers that they can watch in HD if they have freesat.

Admittedly, it isn't a sky type campaign with a blitz, but there must be at least 20 million sets of eyeballs that have seen these ads repeatedly.

With all that promotion, why do you think Freesat sales dropped in the prime Autumn quarter?

Do you think people watch the ads, go into their local retailer, get all the options, and leave with another provider?

[chalky1977]

do you know what i have never seen these adverts i hear them mention about free sat during sports programes

[pdoherty76]

Originally Posted by derek500

With all that promotion, why do you think Freesat sales dropped in the prime Autumn quarter?

Do you think people watch the ads, go into their local retailer, get all the options, and leave with another provider?

Well if you mean "do they go to currys and get told by the spotty youth passing as a sales consultant that they should get sky instead" then yes i believe that happens a lot.

But with more HD channels on freesat and no charge to record and freeview HD in disarray which option will they pick now?

[derek500]

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Well if you mean "do they go to currys and get told by the spotty youth passing as a sales consultant that they should get sky instead" then yes i believe that happens a lot.

But with more HD channels on freesat and no charge to record and freeview HD in disarray which option will they pick now?

Sky HD? The only platform with ALL the PSB HD channels, plus dozens of others. Very low cost up front, compared to nearly four hundred quid for a Humax PVR and install.

I'm sorry, but that's how the public see it and that's why Sky HD outsells Freesat by four to one. And if they do decide on Freesat, 80% are choosing the cheaper non-PVR boxes.

[pdoherty76]

Originally Posted by derek500

Sky HD? The only platform with ALL the PSB HD channels, plus dozens of others. Very low cost up front, compared to nearly four hundred quid for a Humax PVR and install.

I'm sorry, but that's how the public see it and that's why Sky HD outsells Freesat by four to one. And if they do decide on Freesat, 80% are choosing the cheaper non-PVR boxes.

Sky HD does not "outsell" freesat by 4 to 1. Most sky HD uptake is existing sky subscribers upgrading. They are not even comparable. One is a premium subscription service and the other is free.

Freeview has "outsold" sky hugely. Freeview was only around since 2002 and has more users than sky which has been around 20 years. Why haven't sky "outsold" freeview?

As for "very low cost upfront", yes you might get a free HD box and install but you are then paying £28 a month minimum for at least 12 months and then if you ever cancel you cant record.

Please tell me why someone who wants free TV should sign up to sky? If people are doing that in shops then they must be zombies.

Freesat has plenty for non pay tv fans. BBC HD and ITV HD already there and you knwo C4HD and possibly E4HD is coming too.

You really think people are going to pay £28 a month to watch neighbours in HD on Five HD???

[derek500]

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Freeview has "outsold" sky hugely. Freeview was only around since 2002 and has more users than sky which has been around 20 years. Why haven't sky "outsold" freeview?´

Because all TV have it built in and boxes are less than 20 quid.

As for "very low cost upfront", yes you might get a free HD box and install but you are then paying £28 a month minimum for at least 12 months and then if you ever cancel you cant record.

True, but psychologically it seems cheaper when there is no large upfront cost.

Please tell me why someone who wants free TV should sign up to sky? If people are doing that in shops then they must be zombies.

OK, they hear the commentator say 'watch in HD on Freesat', they then investigate and find that other providers offer a lot more. 'So I get to see the matches that ITV show in HD, will I also get all the HD matches on Sky too?'

Freesat has plenty for non pay tv fans. BBC HD and ITV HD already there and you knwo C4HD and possibly E4HD is coming too.

Agreed and it's getting better all the time, but many want more. You always dissed C4, but now it may be coming to Freesat, you seem to be getting quite excited!! So even you want more.

You really think people are going to pay £28 a month to watch neighbours in HD on Five HD???

Why quote one programme on one of twenty odd HD channels? See, you're dissing C5 now!! I suppose you'll be more generous if it comes to Freesat?

[Torin]

Hi

If i have a 6 yr old Sky dish, can i pick up Freesat HD with it?

Also, can i buy any old sat reciever to view fta channels or does it have to be Freesat - ie will an old sky box work?

[pdoherty76]

Originally Posted by derek500

Because all TV have it built in and boxes are less than 20 quid.




True, but psychologically it seems cheaper when there is no large upfront cost.



OK, they hear the commentator say 'watch in HD on Freesat', they then investigate and find that other providers offer a lot more. 'So I get to see the matches that ITV show in HD, will I also get all the HD matches on Sky too?'



Agreed and it's getting better all the time, but many want more. You always dissed C4, but now it may be coming to Freesat, you seem to be getting quite excited!! So even you want more.



Why quote one programme on one of twenty odd HD channels? See, you're dissing C5 now!! I suppose you'll be more generous if it comes to Freesat?

As you well know, I am a very happy sky subscriber. i have the works from sky including sports and HD. So your attempts to paint me as a sky hater and downtrodden freesat user are failing.

SKYs services are fantastic, I am not surprised they have 10 million subscribers, frankly they deserve them. BUT you and I want pay tv, the people nipping down to currys don't want pay TV, thats why they are nipping to currys rather than staying in their comfy armchair and phoning sky sales.

There will always be an approximate 50% of the population who want free TV, that is why freeview and freesat will always exist and do very well.

Do you really believe that the 16 year old kid in currys wearing the nylon shirt and trying to sell me £99 HDMI cables, will somehow convert 13 million householders into wanting sky????

[pdoherty76]

Originally Posted by Torin

Hi

If i have a 6 yr old Sky dish, can i pick up Freesat HD with it?

Also, can i buy any old sat reciever to view fta channels or does it have to be Freesat - ie will an old sky box work?

Yes you can use the dish for Freesat HD.

You can buy any satellite reciever to view the channels but if you buy a generic one you won't have an epg. Also if you buy a sky HD box you won't be able to record without a £10 per month subscription.

Sky Hd box and a viewing card will give you more ftv HD channels at the moment, but if you want to record get a freesat HD PVR. Prices are dropping and you will never be charged to use it once you have bought it.

[derek500]

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Do you really believe that the 16 year old kid in currys wearing the nylon shirt and trying to sell me £99 HDMI cables, will somehow convert 13 million householders into wanting sky????

No, but we're tying to ascertain why with Freesat spending millions on advertising last Autumn, and with millions hearing the football commentators plugging Freesat HD, they only sold 143,000 units in a quarter.

Surely it's the same as someone seeing an ad for a car priced at £5,000, yet they leave the showroom with a model costing thousands more.

They go in for 'Free', realise it doesn't offer much and come away with 'pay'.

[TonyA]

Personally believe that paying for hundreds of channels that are on the whole showing endless repeats or total cp, isn't exactly an incentive for a lot of people to sign up to $ky.

More doesn't always mean "better".

I would rather have less channels with higher quality broadcasting.

Love the car analogy, but surely this should have been:

$ky: get a FREE car, and pay through the nose for fuel (with steadily increasing fuel prices every year).

Freesat: Pay for the car, and run it for ever for FREE

[derek500]

Originally Posted by TonyA

Personally believe that paying for hundreds of channels that are on the whole showing endless repeats or total cp, isn't exactly an incentive for a lot of people to sign up to $ky.

More doesn't always mean "better".

I would rather have less channels with higher quality broadcasting.

That I'm afraid is a typical, short sighted anti-Sky complaint.

Quality is a very subjective thing. There is much quality on Sky. Sky Arts 1 and 2 are brilliant channels, they show the sort of programmes that the BBC should be showing, but they don't any more.

Complete operas, ballets, rock concerts in HD with no commercial breaks.

What do you think is 'higher quality broadcasting'?

[TonyA]

Indeed "quality is a very subjective thing".

I won't argue that Sky Arts carries more "intellectual" and "quality" content than most. When I had Sky, I watched many quality programmes on there which were fascinating, educational, and entertaining.

The only channel that comes close to that is BBC 4.

However, these sort of channels are very few and far between, with the majority (even the "big 4", BBC, ITV, C4 and C5) broadcasting a fair amount of dross, and endless repeats.

The only reason I became "anti-sky" was the ever-increasing year-on-year charges, and the quality of the hardware. After Sky HD box no. 6 failed on me, was when I decided I'd had enough of them, as I was basically paying for a service I was very rarely receiving without having problems!

However, even the biggest Sky supporters can't deny that the majority of the channels on Sky are just utter rubbish (excluding the movie and sports channels - which you pay extra for).

[derek500]

Originally Posted by TonyA

However, even the biggest Sky supporters can't deny that the majority of the channels on Sky are just utter rubbish (excluding the movie and sports channels - which you pay extra for).

I tend to watch mainly Sky branded channels and find the overall quality very good.

I can honestly say I never watch the UKTV repeat loops or the Virgin Media channels.

Sky 1, Sky Arts, Sky News and FX are the only channels I watch regularly, along with Sports and Movies and regular TV (C4 being the most watched terrestrial).