[Interceptor121]

I wonder what is your experience to watch SD with this receiver

In other words do you get a better output using:
1. SCART-Composite
2. SCART-RGB
3. HDMI-576i
4. HDMI-1080i
5. Component

I have heard funny stories and I would like to share notes

[ciaran2506]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

I wonder what is your experience to watch SD with this receiver

In other words do you get a better output using:
1. SCART-Composite
2. SCART-RGB
3. HDMI-576i
4. HDMI-1080i
5. Component

I have heard funny stories and I would like to share notes

I use HDMI-1080i as this allows the box to upscale the picture to 576i whilst also allowing you to view HD at 1080i

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

I wonder what is your experience to watch SD with this receiver

In other words do you get a better output using:
1. SCART-Composite
2. SCART-RGB
3. HDMI-576i
4. HDMI-1080i
5. Component

I have heard funny stories and I would like to share notes

There's no right answer to this one. It's basically down to how good the scaler in the TV is compared to the box, what the TV screen resoltion is, what the box does to SD output over hdmi and the circuitry in the TV handling RGB compared to component.

You can forget option 1 it's the worst possible quality.

Generally if the TV is a good one then it's likely Scart - RGB or component will look best but you have to balance how much worse overlays like the epg look as clearly they can't be 1080i using anything but hdmi.

[Interceptor121]

Graham

I am just interested in view not in what is best for me

Which input do you use for SD?

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

Graham

I am just interested in view not in what is best for me

Which input do you use for SD?

Can only report on the hdr

Since V12 screwed up the scart ratio switching and anything other than 720p or 1080i causes a large overscan on my TV I use 1080i (also V12 on) . There used to be small improvement using RGB scart but the inconvenience meant I used original over hdmi prior to V12 firmware.

[Interceptor121]

I have limited knowledge of video processing but I thought that it is not possible to upscale an interlaced signal so in theory the best thing would be to pass all the signals unconverted to the TV and let the TV deinterlace and scale accordingly

The 1080i settings would do for a 576i a first conversion to 576p then an upscale to 1080p and then an interlace to 1080i which would then be de-interlaced by the TV a total of 4 steps

I would think that the "original" setting is the best as the box should not do any processing at all

It would be good to have a 1080p setting on the Humax at least the full conversion would be done and the display could be driven at the native resolution skipping two steps in the conversion above for 576i

I use HDMI with v-format set to original

[Dave Taylor]

I have a Panny Plasma which does a very good job of up scaling, the Humax does a very poor job of up scaling.

So for me when watch SD content I use RGB, gives a far shaper picture with deeper colours. Obviously when watching HD I use the HDMI.

There is an old thread on this subject with Images showing the difference.

I also know people with this box and they have come to the same conclusion (all with Panny Plasmas)

Hope that helps

Re Dave

[Interceptor121]

Dave

interesting. Have you tried using the HDMI and setting to original or 576i?

HDMI implements sRGB there is no reason why the two would look any different

[GarethG]

looking to get one shortly to go through my amp - if I went for the advice in last post and used HDMI would I have to keep changing settings dependant on whether watching SD or HD?

[Interceptor121]

No with original the Humax sets 576i for SD and 1080i for HD then your receiver has to do the rest. This could introduce a delay in channel switchin as the circuit changes the upscaling mode
Also you have to test how that works with ITV red button

[Dave Taylor]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

Dave

interesting. Have you tried using the HDMI and setting to original or 576i?

HDMI implements sRGB there is no reason why the two would look any different

I have tried all, it happend when I 1st got my box, when they came out, I could not believe had bad Freesat SD (ITV1) looked in comparison to Freeview (ITV1), so I tried different connections, have a look at this post to see that I am not on my own with this one.

Humax FOXSAT-HDR Freesat+Owners Thread

Re Dave

[Interceptor121]

Originally Posted by Dave Taylor

I have tried all, it happend when I 1st got my box, when they came out, I could not believe had bad Freesat SD (ITV1) looked in comparison to Freeview (ITV1), so I tried different connections, have a look at this post to see that I am not on my own with this one.

Humax FOXSAT-HDR Freesat+Owners Thread

Re Dave

Excellent reference

I actually prefer the HDMI over RGB in that post. The RGB seems sharper but mich much more HALO and distortion!!!

Horses for courses??

There is also some suggestion that HUMAX may put a NR filter on the HDMI only

That would be an interesting engineering. Would be interesting to open the box. Anybody has done it?

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Dave Taylor

I have tried all, it happend when I 1st got my box, when they came out, I could not believe had bad Freesat SD (ITV1) looked in comparison to Freeview (ITV1), so I tried different connections, have a look at this post to see that I am not on my own with this one.

Humax FOXSAT-HDR Freesat+Owners Thread

Re Dave

All the ITV 1 regions (except ITV West Country) used to transmit at a miserable 544 x 576 pixels. The changes made on tuesday now mean most are now at 704 x 576 (same as freeview)

[Interceptor121]

If the picture of the SCART is at higher resolution than the other (it would not really look if you count the pixels) than really there is no point playing with the scart looking at how much aliasing there is in the freeview frame
It actually would confirm that HDMI is a better interface and introduces less noise as opposed to thinking that there is a filer.

I would be staggered if the RGB signal going into the HDMI has a NR filter put on it just before the port as that post was suggesting...that would be an interesting engineering concept.

[Dave Taylor]

All I know that SD on HDMI output looks soft and washed out compared to RGB, but anybody that is not sure then just try using both and just use what you like the look of.

I have also know people who have tried the same with a Humax SD freeview box that has an HDMI socket & Scart, the Scart looks better.

It has been assumed (by others, I dont know) that the upscaling device within the Humax may not be that good.

But like I say just use what you like the look of.

But checkout this link that has a side by side comparison.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=804211

Re Dave

[Interceptor121]

If you set the HUMAX on original there is no upscaling of 576i through HDMI nor SCART. Upscaling only happens if you put it on 1080i or 720p
It is possible though that the digital signal processor in the HUMAX has an integrated noise reduction filter.
As the SCART does not provide upscaling nor interlacing I could think that the SCART port takes the signal directly but that would be an unusual and ineffective circuit design.
I would assume that signal-DSP-Ports is the way the connections are arranged and if you set the BOX to original the DSP is bypassed.
When I get back home I will connect the TV with both methods and take some pictures myself

[Interceptor121]

Originally Posted by Dave Taylor

All I know that SD on HDMI output looks soft and washed out compared to RGB, but anybody that is not sure then just try using both and just use what you like the look of.

I have also know people who have tried the same with a Humax SD freeview box that has an HDMI socket & Scart, the Scart looks better.

It has been assumed (by others, I dont know) that the upscaling device within the Humax may not be that good.

But like I say just use what you like the look of.

But checkout this link that has a side by side comparison.

Humax Foxsat Image Quality Comparison - Freesat - Digital Spy Forums

Re Dave

Dave

That is exactly the proof of what I am saying. Don't put the HUMAX to 1080i for standard TV but leave it to Original otherwise you get a 5 steps de-interlace instead of a 2. Is possible that the DSP in the HUMAX is worst than the other boxes but the best thing is to by pass it

[Dave Taylor]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

When I get back home I will connect the TV with both methods and take some pictures myself

Would be interested in your results, like I said I did try with all settings. What TV do you have?

Re Dave

[Interceptor121]

I have an old Hitachi HD Ready with an ALIS panel which is interlaced by nature kept on the original setting.
The very nature of the display makes any processing outside the TV useless but actually it does quite well with interlaced content as the TV itself is a kinda of CRT. Actually a good option for people that only look at TV.
Sadly I don't so I am waiting for the new Panasonic G20B 50" for upgrade.
Besides similar result come out also of the back up LCD that I have got home so the trends seem confirmed.

I would concur that the Humax processing capabilities are limited indeed but so are many devices of the same segment.

I agree with the last post you pointed me at the best is to keep the foxsat at the "original" setting and let the TV do the work. Plasma and LCD TV manufacturer have over 10 years of de-interlacing and scaling experience while for the receiver boxes this has been happening only since HD.
Before everybody would either take the output as it is or process it through an AV amplifier with a decent DSP

[Interceptor121]

I made some tests and takes some pictures

1. The SCART of the HUMAX does not support RGB but just S-Video
2. Based on 1 it is a waste of time to connect the SCART, it is better to just use HDMI. Confirmed by testing too
3. The Original setting performs better than the 1080i. There is notable and excessive sharpening with the 1080i probably due to the poor upscaling processor

I will keep my TV on original. I will do some tests with my new set when it arrives

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

I made some tests and takes some pictures

1. The SCART of the HUMAX does not support RGB but just S-Video
2. Based on 1 it is a waste of time to connect the SCART, it is better to just use HDMI. Confirmed by testing too
3. The Original setting performs better than the 1080i. There is notable and excessive sharpening with the 1080i probably due to the poor upscaling processor

I will keep my TV on original. I will do some tests with my new set when it arrives

You have connected using the wrong scart, like all similar devices the vcr scart will only output s-video and cvbs. The TV scart almost certainly has 576i RGB

[Interceptor121]

Yes but the HUMAX does not output RGB only Composite and Svideo over SCART unless there is trick somewhere

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

Yes but the HUMAX does not output RGB only Composite and Svideo over SCART unless there is trick somewhere

Not sure what you are saying here. Cvbs and analogue stereo in/out is always available as there are dedicated connections in the peritel spec. A scart lead though can only carry RGB, component or s-video in one direction and only one at a time as they share pin connections. All Humax pvrs output RGB (and composite) by default from the TV scart as does the Freesat single tuner HD box the Foxsat-HD. If you can't get RGB from a Humax box TV scart check the display scart you are connecting to supports RGB and/or that the scart cable is fully wired (cheaper ones omit the RGB connections). The Foxsat-HD can also output component but not at the same time as RGB.

[Interceptor121]

There is a little switch on the back of the BOX which was set to YrPrBr and not RGB that seem to control the SCART(!)

[Interceptor121]

I have tried again.
No major differences RGB SCART picture sharper

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

There is a little switch on the back of the BOX which was set to YrPrBr and not RGB that seem to control the SCART(!)

Yep hence the last line of my post. I imagine RGB and component share the same video amplifiers hence one or the other, but not both.

[Dave Taylor]

It must depend on your TV, another thread here with the brand NEW Humax Freeview HD box and the discussion which is best for SD RGB or HDMI.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/freev...l#post11578743

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that RGB beats HDMI (SD in any format) with my Humax box and my panny TV. I can tell instantly when I switch to SD that the HDMI is soft, but like I have said, just choose what is best for your own setup.

I have to say that when I first got my box I was disappointed that I had to run yet another cable (Scart) to get the best picture, I hope Humax improve in the future.


Re Dave

[Interceptor121]

The difference is absolutely minimal
I only use the SCART because it takes control of the TV while HDMI does not
I also noticed that SCART has input even when the TV is set to high resolution so certainly there is some scaling done???

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Interceptor121

The difference is absolutely minimal
I only use the SCART because it takes control of the TV while HDMI does not
I also noticed that SCART has input even when the TV is set to high resolution so certainly there is some scaling done???

Your TV will always scale the picture to match it's native resolution. it's the only way to get a full picture. Not sure what you mean by saying when the TV is set to high resolution. You cannot change the resolution of the TV it's fixed by the number of pixels in the display. The on screen message tells you what the incoming signal is, the output is always 1920 x 1080 on a full HD display. The scart output will always be 576i irresepective of the stb input and scaler settings. The only real problem with using scart for SD maeans that screen overlays like the depg can't be in HD as they are using the hdmi connection.

[Interceptor121]

Sorry I meant the HUMAX is set to 1080i but SCART does not output 1080i so how does that work? is the HUMAX downscaling?