[Dodgy_Geezer]

Have been reading through the forums and can't seem to find the answer. Here's the deal, would be greatful if anyone could help.


I had a bog standard Sky subscription for several years. Nothing fancy, just the very basic and cheapest Sky subscription that cost a tenner or so a month. Decoder is a Panasonic box which had a card in it. No interest in HD or any premium channels, got the installation done to mainly watch the international channels in the 800 range and only found out recently that I could get these for free

Have since moved out of that place and taken the Panasonic box with me but left the dish and wiring. The new house has no satellite installation and what I want to do is use my existing bog standard Panasonic box to view the same free international channels I had before but without paying a subscription.

I understand Freesat and Free to Air (FTA) are two different things and that I need the latter, that is FTA, to get the handful of international channels I want. Not bothered about EPG, HD, subscriptions or upgrading to watch sports. However, I've been told that Freesat will also give all these FTA international channels but you have to manually add them to the box and buy a one off Sky card for twenty quid.

To make it even more confusing, this link here claims to show all the Freesat channels available, none of which are the international ones I'm after whereas this Freesat link here shows all the channels including the international ones I want. Which one is right??

Can anyone advise on whether I need to just get Freesat installed or whether I need to ask for an FTA system instead? Can I just use my Panasonic box to view the Freesat and/or FTA channels? Argos/Comet offer a Freesat installation for £80 excluding the box, if I just get this installed and connect to my existing Panny box, will I get the free international channels?

Many thanks in advance for any help and having reading this far, am normally pretty clued about these things but this is all very confusing.

[Starburst]

Freesat is a product created by the BBC and ITV with it's own EPG and middleware which is licenced to manufacturers. It is used to provide UK homes with easy access to the Free To Air digital satellite channels some of which pay Freesat to be on the EPG and some do not but can be manually added.
Freesatfromsky is obviously based on SKY hardware and it's EPG and middleware which offers access to the Free To Air channels and Free To View (require £20 smartcard) and since SKY has access to around 10million homes only a handful of satellite channels are not on the SKY EPG.

A non-subscription SKY box or Freesat box will pick up the FTA channels broadcast from the satellites that serve the main UK market as will any generic digital satellite box. Once a dish is installed you choose which ever receiver suits your purpose.

[Dodgy_Geezer]

Many thanks for that, now it's making more sense

I'll stick with Freesatforsky but you mentioned this would only work with a non-subscription Sky box so I guess the Panny is out of the question?

If that's the case, I have a generic Humax box somewhere that was used for FTA Hotbird channels, would this work with the correct Sky card? Also, any idea if would I be able to ask Sky (or a Sky installer) to install a dish only as I already have a decoder?

Thanks again for the help

[davemurgatroyd2]

Originally Posted by Dodgy_Geezer

Many thanks for that, now it's making more sense

I'll stick with Freesatforsky but you mentioned this would only work with a non-subscription Sky box so I guess the Panny is out of the question?

If that's the case, I have a generic Humax box somewhere that was used for FTA Hotbird channels, would this work with the correct Sky card? Also, any idea if would I be able to ask Sky (or a Sky installer) to install a dish only as I already have a decoder?

Thanks again for the help

A non-subscription box is any Sky digibox without a subscription card. Either your Panasonic or Humax will receive all the free channels but only the Panasonic will give you a 7 day EPG. Sky will NOT install just a dish for a non-subscriber.

[Geofbob]

Where to start - well, first the two links you provide are to two different services - one is Freessat; the other is Freesat from Sky - yes, it's a bit confusing, but they are not the same thing.

Next, what determines what unencrypted satellite channels you can actually receive is not the box you have, but where your satellite dish is pointed. The channels you received on Sky were from the Astra2 & Eurobird satellites at about 28.5E; & these same channels can be received on a designated Freesat box or on a generic FTA box.

The essential difference between Freesat, Freesat from Sky & generic FTA lies in the Electronic Programme Guide (EPG). If you hook your Sky box to a satellite dish pointed at 28.5E, you should pick up the Sky EPG you're used to; if you buy a Freesat box, you will pick up a different 8-day EPG; & if you get a generic FTA box, you will have only a "Now & Next EPG". By the way, you don't need a £20 viewing card for most of the Freesat from Sky channels, but only for Fiver, Five US, Dave & maybe a couple of others (& these channels are also not on Freesat).

In addition to the channels on the Freesat EPG, you can manually search for additional channels, including the international channels you're interested in. But you may think it more convenient to continue using your Sky box, since those channels are already on the Freesat from Sky list,

PS. I know Starburst has already informed you of much of this - but I'd started before he posted, got interrupted, but thought I'd might as well finish.

[Davey H]

Originally Posted by Geofbob

By the way, you don't need a £20 viewing card for most of the Freesat from Sky channels, but only for Fiver, Five US, Dave & maybe a couple of others (& these channels are also not on Freesat).

You dont/wont get Dave even with a FSFS card.Dave isn't an FTV channel it's a subscription channel on Sky.

[Dodgy_Geezer]

Originally Posted by Geofbob

The essential difference between Freesat, Freesat from Sky & generic FTA lies in the Electronic Programme Guide (EPG). If you hook your Sky box to a satellite dish pointed at 28.5E, you should pick up the Sky EPG you're used to; if you buy a Freesat box, you will pick up a different 8-day EPG; & if you get a generic FTA box, you will have only a "Now & Next EPG". By the way, you don't need a £20 viewing card for most of the Freesat from Sky channels, but only for Fiver, Five US, Dave & maybe a couple of others (& these channels are also not on Freesat).

In addition to the channels on the Freesat EPG, you can manually search for additional channels, including the international channels you're interested in. But you may think it more convenient to continue using your Sky box, since those channels are already on the Freesat from Sky list.

Many thanks, this is exactly what the forum is about and why it's so great, straightforward, no-nonsense advice from informed people

Right then, seems my options are:

1. Pay £150 for a new Freesat for Sky installation with all new kit that can receive Dave and Five and has same EPG as old Sky subscription package.

2. Pay £80 or thereabouts for a Freesat dish installation only to use with my existing Panny or Humax decoder and manually searching for and adding the extra international channels (but not Dave and Five which are unavailable on Freesat).

I think number 1 is the most likely option, Dave is the only other channel I watch regularly, all those reruns of Top Gear are ace.

Thanks again to all who replied, really do appreciate it

[Dodgy_Geezer]

Originally Posted by WavyDavy

You dont/wont get Dave even with a FSFS card.Dave isn't an FTV channel it's a subscription channel on Sky.

Yep, you're right, it's not on the list at FREESAT from Sky - What's on TV - FREESAT from Sky and I can live without Five so option 2 would be the cheaper installation. I'll pop into a Freesat retailer over the weekend and see if I can have a fiddle with their box to see what the deal is with adding channels.

[Starburst]

Any reason you can't get DAVE via a Freeview setup and use a non-subscription Dsat for the other channels you are interested in?

[Geofbob]

Originally Posted by Dodgy_Geezer

Yep, you're right, it's not on the list at FREESAT from Sky - What's on TV - FREESAT from Sky and I can live without Five so option 2 would be the cheaper installation. I'll pop into a Freesat retailer over the weekend and see if I can have a fiddle with their box to see what the deal is with adding channels.

Sorry about my mistake regarding Dave - hope you can live without it.

As regards adding non-Freesat channels on a Freesat box, I have to say that on my Bush BFSAT01 HD box, it's tedious, but not difficult, once you've ascertained the frequency & other data, usually from KingOfSat The main problem is not downloading the channel you want, but deleting the channels you don't want, which are on the same transponder & are automatically downloaded with it. (It may not make sense now, but will once you try it.)

By the way, one channel you may be used to, which surprisingly is not on Freesat EPG, but is on non-Freesat, is Sky News.

[Dodgy_Geezer]

Well I had a play with a Freesat box this morning and yes, it was tedious to add new channels but not difficult. Very similar to an old Hotbird setup I had which would require retuning every other month.

Will stick with Freesat for Sky, it needs to be easy to use for elderly viewers and they're all familiar with Sky. Apparently, the standard Freesat for Sky kit is a Pace box so I can always sell the Humax and Panny.

And great idea about using Freeview, can get Five and Dave through the aerial and use Sky for the international channels

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by Dodgy_Geezer

.

2. Pay £80 or thereabouts for a Freesat dish installation only to use with my existing Panny or Humax decoder and manually searching for and adding the extra international channels (but not Dave and Five which are unavailable on Freesat).

:

Channel 5 is on the freesat epg at local channel nos 105 (it shares a transponder with some bbc channels). The version you get on most skyboxes is ftv(encrtypted) and requires a card but you can add the fta version used on the freesat epg using add channels. There's a lot of out of date data on the net

[Dodgy_Geezer]

Originally Posted by davemurgatroyd2

Sky will NOT install just a dish for a non-subscriber.

Quick update on this, have been ringing a few local independent installers who are quoting £90 quid for the freesat for Sky dish and installation only so that I can use with the existing Sky Panny box.

Any benefit for going the whole hog and getting the £150 package direct from Sky with the Pace box instead?

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by Dodgy_Geezer

Quick update on this, have been ringing a few local independent installers who are quoting £90 quid for the freesat for Sky dish and installation only so that I can use with the existing Sky Panny box.

Any benefit for going the whole hog and getting the £150 package direct from Sky with the Pace box instead?

Well the PACE box is likely to be the latest model but is that worth another £56 I don't know, the dish and box would be both under warranty for a year and you Pana may die within that timeframe. The Freesatfromsky would also include a new white card guaranteed for about 5 years, not sure if you have a new card or the old blue one.

[Dodgy_Geezer]

Originally Posted by Starburst

Well the PACE box is likely to be the latest model but is that worth another £56 I don't know, the dish and box would be both under warranty for a year and you Pana may die within that timeframe. The Freesatfromsky would also include a new white card guaranteed for about 5 years, not sure if you have a new card or the old blue one.

Good point about the card and warranty for the box, I think it's worth paying the extra cash

[Dodgy_Geezer]

Interesting, I took the Panny box round to a mate who has a Sky dish in his new place that the previous owners left behind (but he doesn't have a subscription) and connected it up.

Found all the channels including the international ones but when switching to Five, Dave, Living and a bunch of others, it popped up with a message saying something along the lines of "this is the wrong card, please contact Sky".

Went back the next day with the same Panny box and connected it again to the same TV and this time Dave, Five and *some* of the other channels that weren't previously shown appeared just fine. For the rest, the message this time was along the lines of "you can get this channel by subscribing to Sky for only £x per month".

Another mate of mine does satellite installations and is down this way tomorrow so he's going to fit a dish for free hence I'll stick with this for the time being. Can always buy the Sky card for £20 if necessary (but doesn't look like it's needed based upon the test).

[Starburst]

It sounds like the card had died and therefore was not even recognised as being valid, the second time the card had probably woken after and realised it was a former subscription card and hence shows the upgrade message.
If you are watching Dave then it sounds like at least one kill command was not processed correctly, that may remain the case until the blue cards are permanently switched off.

[RMCF]

I'm considering going from being a Sky+ subscriber (with Sports) to being a FreeSat from Sky viewer.

I'm guessing there is no way they will let me keep the functions of the Sky+ box?

[grahamlthompson]

Originally Posted by RMCF

I'm considering going from being a Sky+ subscriber (with Sports) to being a FreeSat from Sky viewer.

I'm guessing there is no way they will let me keep the functions of the Sky+ box?

There is if you cough up £10.00 a month