[Stuart Wright]

As with all organisations, managing growth is one of the major issues facing us at the AV Forums.
We need to address how to ensure new members feel welcome amongst so many veterans.
To tackle the issue of perceived friendliness, I want to set out a new direction for the forums with regard to manners.
We have always had a code of good conduct where we expect people to be respectful to other members. A very few people have found this rather strict in comparison to other forums and have struggled to fit in. However, we do not base our policy on what other forums do but rather what we feel will be acceptable to the wider audience.
Our audience is generally more mature than at a lot of other forums. Most people here do not want to have to witness nasty, petty bickering in arguments which repeat themselves with predictable regularity.
We are acutely aware that if we do not try harder to maintain a welcoming atmosphere at the AV Forums then new members will find it difficult to join in the community and existing members will become so disenchanted that they will not return.

So we are tightening up our rules with regard to acceptable conduct.
Put simply - members should not post anything which they wouldn't say face to face. That is going to be our approximate benchmark.
If negative or personal comments are made which we consider are likely to inflame an argument, and/or which would be rude if spoken in person, we will consider applying some kind of warning.

We are asking forum members to report all posts they consider to be unfriendly.

I am expecting a little backlash to this new directive, but let’s face it - it is not in our interests to impose rules which stifle discourse. Exchange of information is what these forums are fundamentally about, and at the core of our rules is common sense.

Hopefully AV Forums members will work with us to maintain the friendliest and most informative and entertaining of communities.

[neilneil]

Being frendly is the cornerstone of a sucessfull and welcoming forum in my opinion. I would guess that 95% of new active members are lurkers first. If someone drops in as a guest and sees a clique (sp?) group of aggressive people then they are likely to pass us by to our loss.
I would also guess that more than 99% of people here are considerate in there posts even when they don't agree with your point of view. This is backed up by consistant and fair moderating.
That is the kind forum that we should present and I believe that mostly we do.
Thanks to all for a great forum to date and long may it continue to grow.

Cheers

-Neil

[JagoPlasma]

i see no problems with these forums whatsoever. i always feel welcome and among my peers whenever i post.

this site is a damn site friendlier than others i look in on. other forums like a certain windows site begining with the letter N has a very rude atmosphere where anything you say that isnt "in" with the community or borderline breach of rules(or seemingly that way) results in 20 pages of flaming. and is why im signed upto here and not there.

its very thoughtful of the msg on the front page reminding me that i havent posted in a few weeks too

if we had a dedicated new site here at the avforums id drop N and possibly the reg straight away (if the IT dept didnt start blocking avforums that is )

[Stuart Wright]

Originally Posted by JagoPlasma

if we had a dedicated new site here at the avforums id drop N and possibly the reg straight away (if the IT dept didnt start blocking avforums that is )

Dedicated to what?

[PoochJD]

Morning Stuart,

Originally Posted by Stuart Wright

Put simply - members should not post anything which they wouldn't say face to face. That is going to be our approximate benchmark.

As much as I agree with you, and don't have a problem with this new amendment to the AV Forum Codes Of Conduct, you may find that this new regulation doesn't make any difference. There are plenty of things I might say to someone, in a face-to-face conversation, that may not be appropriate for a forum, and vice-versa.

With regards to arguments, and/or heated or passionate debates, I don't think that the barometer of what should or shouldn't be said in the forums, being that if you'd say it to someone's face, then that's okay, and if not, then it isn't is going to work.

I understand what you mean, and I certainly see what you're trying to say, but I think a more appropriate ruling change might be: "Members should not say anything, they wouldn't say in front of family". This way, you're impressing upon members to keep things relatively clean, and not get too angry, bitchy, or heated.

Just my 2p's worth....


Pooch

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by PoochJD

I understand what you mean, and I certainly see what you're trying to say, but I think a more appropriate ruling change might be: "Members should not say anything, they wouldn't say in front of family". This way, you're impressing upon members to keep things relatively clean, and not get too angry, bitchy, or heated.

And then you'd get someone along saying that he talks like that in front of his family. I think that everyone reading Stuart's note will be fully aware of what he means

[robfjonesuk]

I think this is a very good idea. On more than one occasion I have posted what I thought to be a good post only for someone to attack it as it doesn't agree with me (altho the vast majority of people on her are great).

I tend to agree with pooch in that the 'face to face' benchmark may be a little too strict and may stifle some quite reasonable but forthright opinions.
Perhaps the guiding rule should be more along the lines of 'treat everyone as if you may bump into them at some time'

[Setenza]

I don't like restrictive rules, but these new guidelines are fair and frankly needed.

There have been several threads recently that have descended into more than just general blokeyness. They have been crass, and demeaning to women and not the sort or material I think these boards should be associated with.

These boards themselves by their very nature can incur the stereo type of AV anoraks. Recent threads have unfortunately compounded that. Don't let a few foolish postings tarnish the reputation that has been built up.

Intelligent debate and even heated and controversial discussion should always be tempered with civility, maturity, and deference.

As my Dad always says, engage the brain before openeing the mouth.

[CFC1]

I welcome this initiative!

[mjn]

Originally Posted by Stuart Wright

So we are tightening up our rules with regard to acceptable conduct.
Put simply - members should not post anything which they wouldn't say face to face. That is going to be our approximate benchmark.

Thats going to be very difficult to enforce. I've met some very vocal / cheeky people in my time and think nothing of saying things, i wouldn't even type.

[mason]

It is welcomed be me also

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by mjn

Thats going to be very difficult to enforce. I've met some very vocal / cheeky people in my time and think nothing of saying things, i wouldn't even type.

I assume that as the enforcement will be down to the moderators the benchmark will be what the individual moderator feels is acceptable and hopefully we don't have any that fit the bill you described.

[breadbun]

I can honestly say that AV Forums are the most friendly and welcoming forums I have ever been associated with, and thats in over 10 years or more of forum/bulletin board use. Its always good to have a reminder of what is deemed appropriate though, and in this case, what has been suggested sounds fair enough to me.

I have been recommending these forums to anyone I know that wants good, friendly, unbiased discussion carried out in a civilised manner. Long may ot continue.

[JagoPlasma]

Originally Posted by Stuart Wright

Dedicated to what?

sorry typo

"dedicated news site"

yes I know this is a forum, but it could be so much more if you had a proper dedicated news front page

just an idea

[Henry]

Excellent idea. Treat people decently and as you'd expect to be treated and there's no problem. Don't and you'll fall foul of the code of conduct. Simple.

[Sandy13]

Originally Posted by Henry

Excellent idea. Treat people decently and as you'd expect to be treated and there's no problem. Don't and you'll fall foul of the code of conduct. Simple.

Couldn't have put it any better than that.

[Nerval]

Great idea - though I've not seen much on here that I'd disapprove of.

My guideline when making posts, is: Would I say it to a 20 stone 7ft man in a pub?
If not, then I rephrase it.

The world is a much better place for good manners and consideration, and I'm pleased that the owners of this site take that view too.

[Epicurus]

Firstly I'd like to say I agree with other comments already about this already being one of the friendliest forums on the Web. In fact I have found most forum memebrs to be generally excellent and helpful, something which quickly made this one of my most visited sites.

Something that does bother me though is the elitist attitude sometimes displayed, and I guess that is kind of what you're hinting at. For a start I absolutely hate the trend of everyone posting their complete AV gear in their signatures in some kind of bizarre e-penis comparison ritual. Sure tell people when asked but otherwise keep it to yourselves. This is something I noticed from the very moment I started posting here and even made me feel alienated as I didn't know what half the abbreviations meant.

The other thing I really really hate is when someone "dares" to post a question that is already listed in a stickied FAQ at the top of the page. You always get some idiot who makes a helpful comment like "look at the top of the page" but usually in a far more snidey way. Sure there is nothing wrong with pointing out FAQs if someone didnt notice it, but at least answer their question at the same time or don't post at all.

Elitism is the bane of all internet forums and is exactly what puts people off joining more forums. I hope this latest initiative here on the AV Forums helps force it out to an extent and I praise and support the effort.

[SamRadford]

Originally Posted by JagoPlasma

id drop N and possibly the reg

The main problem I have with newcomers (and some oldies like above) is that I can't understand their version of "English". Usually I bite my tongue and simply ignore the post. On some occasions this means that they don't get a useful reply.

Consequently, IMHO they should be advised that they are more likely to get a useful answer if they stick to standard English spelling, punctuation, grammar and avoid unnecessary abbreviations and "txt-spk".

People should also be told that they must state the make and model number of any equipment mentioned. Too often we get posts which, in the extreme, could be: "my set top box dont wurk wotz rong?" Sometimes I'll take the trouble to type "Make, model, fault history and more info., please." More often I simply won't bother. It's hard to be welcoming to someone who gives the impression of being five years old. Unfortunately, posts like that attract more posts like that. I've seen other forums disintegrate into playgrounds for juveniles because they were too tolerant of bad English.

This isn't about elitism - it's about effective communication.

[LicensedTaximan]

No problems here, civility rules ok

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Epicurus

For a start I absolutely hate the trend of everyone posting their complete AV gear in their signatures in some kind of bizarre e-penis comparison ritual.

What a strange outlook you have. This is an AV forum where we discuss AV equipment and AV problems and members listing their AV kit in their signatures is often helpful to other posters.

[andykn]

Originally Posted by Epicurus

Firstly I'd like to say I agree with other comments already about this already being one of the friendliest forums on the Web. In fact I have found most forum memebrs to be generally excellent and helpful, something which quickly made this one of my most visited sites.

Something that does bother me though is the elitist attitude sometimes displayed, and I guess that is kind of what you're hinting at. For a start I absolutely hate the trend of everyone posting their complete AV gear in their signatures in some kind of bizarre e-penis comparison ritual. Sure tell people when asked but otherwise keep it to yourselves. This is something I noticed from the very moment I started posting here and even made me feel alienated as I didn't know what half the abbreviations meant.

The other thing I really really hate is when someone "dares" to post a question that is already listed in a stickied FAQ at the top of the page. You always get some idiot who makes a helpful comment like "look at the top of the page" but usually in a far more snidey way. Sure there is nothing wrong with pointing out FAQs if someone didnt notice it, but at least answer their question at the same time or don't post at all.

Elitism is the bane of all internet forums and is exactly what puts people off joining more forums. I hope this latest initiative here on the AV Forums helps force it out to an extent and I praise and support the effort.

I list my AV gear because I found it useful when answering others questions to see their stuff listed and it saves having to repeat it when I ask a question.

Many people on many fora loathe newbies who are too lazy to search and expect people to answer the same questions over and over again.

Apart from anything else it's surely easier and quicker to search than post and wait for a reply?

[overkill]

Seems like a good idea to me.

I would only add that posting on forums (or on e-mail) sometimes comes across in a way you don't really intend. As such it will be difficult to sort the genuinely offensive, from the well intentioned but 'harsh sounding' posts. I don't envy the mods trying to make that side of it work.

Otherwise I can see Stuarts point entirely.

[pave]

When i first joined i "lurked" for quite awhile,seeing some of the new members getting a short sharp answer to some of there questions,put me off asking what i wanted to know ,so i think it can only be a good thing to encourage manners and civility......

G.C, can get heated sometimes,but from what i have seen there is normally a "handshake" at some point in the thread,or there told off........

Oh,anything i post,i would say to there face,mind you ,most of what i post is generally just for fun.........

[ufitsy]

I like the idea of a benchmark, sensible people will know when its safe to do 80 in a 70 limit without completely taking the p.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by angstmann

I can honestly say that AV Forums are the most friendly and welcoming forums I have ever been associated with, and thats in over 10 years or more of forum/bulletin board use. Its always good to have a reminder of what is deemed appropriate though, and in this case, what has been suggested sounds fair enough to me.

I have been recommending these forums to anyone I know that wants good, friendly, unbiased discussion carried out in a civilised manner. Long may ot continue.

I would have to agree, I remeber the board before it came over here and it has always been full of very knowledgable people who are willing to shre info.

[IronGiant]

Good initiative Stuart, and for those intimidated by the size of peoples signatures, it's only a problem if you feel it compells you to get yours out, so to speak. A lot of people post here without a signature, it's not compulsory. As Ian said, it can be a help in understanding someone's perspective, it's not necessarily a competition.

Dave

[Spooksta]

After the abuse i had yesterday on another forum i can totally understand your new approach and welcome it.

[Oakleyspatz]

Originally Posted by PoochJD

I understand what you mean, and I certainly see what you're trying to say, but I think a more appropriate ruling change might be: "Members should not say anything, they wouldn't say in front of family". This way, you're impressing upon members to keep things relatively clean, and not get too angry, bitchy, or heated.

Just my 2p's worth....


Pooch

I think this invites just as many people saying that their own family bitch and swear at each other all the time.
No, I think everyone with an ounce of intelligence will understand exactly what Stuart means by not saying anything that you wouldn't say to someone's face. It means do not be personally insulting, do not attack a person in a way that if you were face to face, that other person may want to clobber you for it.
This forum is full of debates and disagreements, but so long as they stay on point, deal with the facts of the issue and do not collapse into name calling and insults then the moderators will have no problems with it.
Up until now, if someone does insult you, you feel obliged to retaliate with another insult. At least this way, you have a line of recourse that doesn't involve a slagging match which nobody else wants to witness.

GREAT IDEA !!