IFA 2009 Round up - 3D, LED and not much else?

**Phil Hinton** · 09-09-2009, 4:18 AM

AVForums attended this years IFA consumer electronics show and reported back on the latest technology and products. IFA is stated by some to be the largest show of it's kind in the world and all the major manufacturers were out in force with their new products and prototypes.

Although the show was busy and attendance by the press, dealers and public was high, the actual amount of new and cutting edge technology was thin on the ground. It seems that most of the majors are pushing on with some popular lines such as LED backlit LCD TVs and holding back on other areas such as OLED. I have no doubt this is a financial decision due to the continuing recession.

For displays the biggest push again this year was towards 3D technology with every stand introducing their own flavour of the technology. And it is certainly interesting as a concept as well as dividing opinions on its worth. The biggest push at the show was from Panasonic and its Full HD 3D technology. Their demonstration featured the new James Cameron movie AVATAR mixed with clips of the Olympics and an F1 car going around a race circuit. The clip material ranged from quite convincing to complete gimmick style in your face material from the Olympics. The AVATAR trailer however, was more interesting as it didn't rely on every shot being in your face 3D and was more subtle in its approach. That didn't stop it looking like a computer game but gave an idea of how 3D can be used in movies as an aid and not just a gimmick. This will probably please some and really annoy others who want everything flying off the screen...

The other major area of display technology taking a big step forward is not OLED as some would have imagined, but LED LCD. This year every major manufacturer had an LED LCD TV line or two to show off, along with the panels getting slimmer. Some of the models did look very good and providing the LED backlighting is done correctly we should see some pretty accurate and nice looking displays arrive for review in the coming months. As you would imagine though, for others is was the usual numbers game with contrast figures of 3 million to one... yeah ok.

LG were the surprise package with some seriously cool panel designs that had some excellent looking images. And the big plus point is that LG really do take the image accuracy angle seriously - so ISF and full calibration controls will be included as standard.

The biggest let down of IFA 2009 was surprisingly Samsung. It looked like IFA was an after thought for the company this year with absolutely no new TVs on show. Instead the company were showing the 6, 7 and 8000 series LED LCDs in various different stand design areas and that was it. Oh, yeah there was one plasma, the B859 which we hadn't seen before, but a seriously poor showing from Samsung.

So what about the industry changing technology showcase that is OLED? Well it was blink and you will miss it. Only LG had any obvious feature on their stand with a 15" OLED panel. Every other manufacturer seemed to forget to include an OLED display. It is obvious that manufacturers have put OLED on the back burner for the time being due to the recession. I suppose their thinking is that in a time where money is tight for many consumers, showing off multi thousand pound new technology displays is perhaps not the done thing. So only LG had the balls to show it off and state it is an expensive proposition at this time. But it also looks like LG were the only company to realise that even in a recession there are consumers who will want to be early adopters and buy in to the technology. So, it looks like OLED has had its roadmap to market extended for at least another year.

In the audio world, things tend to move at a slower pace and that was very much the case again this year. Most of the majors had product we have already reported on in depth with very little being new. However, we were invited to a very special meeting with DTS which was held well away from the show floor, in fact it was a limo ride across town. We were shown some new PC sound implementation of DTS technology as well as a stunning demonstration of a technology many out there probably already own, yet don't realise the power of the technology at their disposal (we were certainly impressed and felt a little silly that this one had passed us by for so long) - more on that in a later post...

So, with new technology obviously being held back at this years IFA, we suspect that given another 4 months to develop their roadmaps further, CES in January is either going to be a complete wash out, or, and we cross our fingers, a show full of new technology for a post recession party!... we will be there to report back no matter what it turns out to be.

If you missed our IFA coverage, here are all the videos and press conferences - click to read/view

Press Conferences.
IFA 2009: Panasonic Press Conference
IFA 2009: Toshiba Press Conference
IFA 2009 *LIVE*: Blu-ray Disc Assoc. Press Conference
IFA 2009: Samsung Press Conference
IFA 2009: Philips Press Conference

Video

Bloodflowerz · 09-09-2009, 11:02 AM

I have to agree. Samsung's showing just plain sucked. A serious low ball from them...

eiren · 09-09-2009, 11:38 AM

Sounds suspiciously like it's a case of after Pioneer's business failure in the expensive display market, most of the rest of the manufacturers are a bit shy in heading into that area.

Thanks for the informative report!

David Mackenzie · 09-09-2009, 3:37 PM

Phil and I were discussing 3D and I think the bottom line for the both of us is that, while we're getting more and more used to it, neither of us are entirely sold yet.

That's a big difference to the days when HDTV was brand new - it was an undeniable improvement that got us closer to the original film experience than ever before. With 3D, it's more a case of us beginning to tolerate it more than it is us warming to it.

One exception to that, though: video games. Sony were showing a prototype video of Wipeout, LittleBigPlanet, and some other PS3 games running in 3D. For me, this was a "you can't go back moment" - the 3D technology really made the game feel more immersive, which was always the point. Whereas with photorealistic material, some parts worked well, whereas others would look incredibly "cardboard cutout". The best example was JVC's projection demo. The footage was of a coral reef underwater, which appeared to stretch on for miles and miles and looked pretty good (apart from the hot-spotting on the silver screen needed to display it, that is). Then, some fish would enter the scene and appear to "fly over" the picture, taking away from the effect.

Meh... just give me 2D OLED

**Phil Hinton** · 09-09-2009, 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

Meh... just give me 2D OLED

and me...

j0hn · 09-09-2009, 9:54 PM

I found it a bit of a wierd move LG saying they are going frameless/boarderless with their sets. Havent they read the projector forums where a border to the image really sets things off, have they missed all the posts about velvet, have they been asleep whilst we tolerated stupid grey TV sets and begged for a move back to black?

If they go boarderless Stuart can open a new forum where people discuss what paint to use on a wall or what material is best to frame their LG sets

oh well be good for business I guess

Event Horizon · 10-09-2009, 11:32 AM

Hi,
Im actualy looking forwards to the advance of 3D in th home, ive been to quite a few realD showings now including one at a THX cert screen in the US and while it doesnt make a bad movie good it makes a good movie better IMO.
Im not really into things flying of the screen at you, but i enjoy having that 3D depth to the set.
Looking forwards to you reporting more as it unfolds.

Many Thanks
Nick.

fraggle · 10-09-2009, 11:33 AM

John, the advantage of a borderless screen is you get to choose if you want black, grey or pink with yellow polks dots background!

(yes I realise that only applies to wall mount screens)

A borderless 3mm thick 50" OLED screen you could blu-tack to the wall?

benmbe · 11-09-2009, 2:15 AM

Hi Phil,

Greatly enjoyed the coverage that you and the team gave at this show, and thank you for asking all of the common sense questions as usual.

Phil keep up the good work as it's always appreciated, I enjoyed each video.

Please give the other team members our regards and thanks.

Sincere Regards

David Mackenzie · 11-09-2009, 2:29 AM

Quote:

A borderless 3mm thick 50" OLED screen you could blu-tack to the wall?

Good luck with the insurance on that one

MeanDorris @ AV Aficionado · 11-09-2009, 12:33 PM

Guys, firstly many thanks for all the great info

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

Phil and I were discussing 3D and I think the bottom line for the both of us is that, while we're getting more and more used to it, neither of us are entirely sold yet.

That's a big difference to the days when HDTV was brand new - it was an undeniable improvement that got us closer to the original film experience than ever before. With 3D, it's more a case of us beginning to tolerate it more than it is us warming to it.

I think the issue is here is that we are still waiting for the "Art" to catch up with the "Technology".

The improvements with HDTV were fairly self evident, but nothing needed to be done from an artistic point of view to provide this improvement, "all" that was need was to capture/create a performance in a higher resolution.

3D technology is a different ball game. Just converting existing 2D material to 3D isn't going to fulfill it's potential, neither is continuing to create performances in the same methods as for traditional 2D presentations.

The "Art". i.e. film making, game design etc needs to adapt, learn and evolve to fully capitilise on 3D and to bring out the maximum possibilities the technology has the potential of achieving.

I have so far seen two recent 3D feature presentations; Ice Age 3 and Coraline.

The 3D presentation of Coraline I found particularly engaging and engrossing. However, some of 3D trailers I saw were distinctly worse than 2D as they made the sequences look like a pop up book - just layers of exceptionally 2D looking elements.

The real tests are still to come where the current auteurs of the film industry (Cameron, Speilberg, Jackson, Lasseter etc )start plying their 3D wares and so I am particularly interested in the upcoming Avatar, Tin Tin's, Toy Story et al and how effectively they use the technology.

However, don't forget that these efforts will be very much a first toe dipping in the waters with the new 3D filming technologies and I suspect there will still be much to learn and much improvements with 3D technology over the coming years.

Give 3D a chance, don't write it off yet...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Hinton

. We were shown some new PC sound implementation of DTS technology as well as a stunning demonstration of a technology many out there probably already own, yet don't realise the power of the technology at their disposal (we were certainly impressed and felt a little silly that this one had passed us by for so long) - more on that in a later post...

Phil, please do elaborate, my interest is most certainly piqued

mjcairney · 11-09-2009, 1:55 PM

Some very interesting videos there Phil - many thanks for an extremely professional job.

Cheers,

Martin.

acid007 · 11-09-2009, 6:30 PM

Very interesting and informative as always.

You get the distinct impression that most of the manufacturers are keeping alot behind for ces........which is not altogether surprising.

Thanks

Moonfly · 12-09-2009, 8:53 PM

Good report

I dont get this whole 3D thing really. IMO it just doesnt work well enough. I can see it being OK for games, but for me any 3D production is more like a pop up book than true 3D. You can get some fairly convincing moments from time to time, but its only ever 1 object. Its never a fully 3D picture and for me this takes away any serious viewing implications.

Its kinda fun, it always has been, but its just not practical on the large scale. One place I do see it working is the cinema. The whole point of going to the cinema is a fun night or day out, and the 3D aspect could add to this, and this I think should be done more. That said, I'd actually start going to cinemas again if they would get their acts together and get HD going.

Something I'm just going to watch with varied interest for now I think.

thechippy · 13-09-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fraggle

A borderless 3mm thick 50" OLED screen you could blu-tack to the wall?

Then you could by them in multiples of four and make as bigger screen as you like!!!

I'll have 16 x 50" please

wizbongre · 14-09-2009, 7:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeanDorris

Phil, please do elaborate, my interest is most certainly piqued

I second that - am intrigued to know what it's going to be...

David Mackenzie · 14-09-2009, 12:38 PM

I'll be a tease and say that on the way out of the meeting, I commented that "It'll be nice to go home from IFA one year to a new technology that I already own"

I-Spy · 14-09-2009, 9:22 PM

Coo... you've definitely got me interested now... I wasn't there but I wonder if this was DTS demonstrating that its possible to receive Neural 5.1 / 7.1 surround via. internet radio??

I've seen that pop up on a few other websites....

David Mackenzie · 14-09-2009, 10:23 PM

You're sort-of there. It was just a demo of Neural technology in general. And as it happens, yes, they did demonstrate it running on an internet radio station.

For those who don't know, Neural is the name of a 5.1/7.1 downmixing/upmixing process. It allows surround audio to be encoded inside a standard stereo production chain, making it an ideal choice for carrying surround in bandwidth-limited applications. The compressionist in me gets excited about the bandwidth savings, and the possibility of including surround content where it wasn't possible before.

Of course, we've heard this before with the likes of Dolby Pro Logic, but Neural technology is newer and smarter. The effect is far more convincing than the Matrixed "pseudo-surround" modes of the past; the reconstruction of the original surround mix much more believable. Details on what it's doing seem to be fairly thin on the ground, but there are some white papers on Neural's site which go some of the way in explaining things.

Achim Scherner from DTS demonstrated Neural Surround playing from a track from his iPod: excellent 5.1 (or was it 7.1?) reproduction coming from a lossy-coded stereo AAC file. He also showed us it running from the Xbox 360 game "Prototype" (aptly named title), which uses Neural technology to produce 7.1 audio.

The funny thing is, many of us probably already own Neural-capable equipment and so far haven't really been aware of what this mode actually does. I myself had assumed that this function on my AVR was just another gimmicky "trick" mode to ignore, but the demo opened our eyes. We know for a fact that international events are already being broadcast around the world with Neural-encoded audio, so we've probably already watched Neural-encoded programmes without even knowing it. If the broadcasters can't tell us to turn our receivers to Neural mode, then it's pretty pointless.

m4rky_m4rk · 15-09-2009, 7:09 AM

Thanks David,

Thats interesting. By chance I have my AV amp running neural now for TV programs. What can I expect if there is an actual TV show broadcast with neural encoding. Any idea how often it happens or is just once every blue moon?

David Mackenzie · 15-09-2009, 8:11 AM

No idea. If it's Neural encoded, expect surround that's nearly as good as "real" surround. Of course, as usual the limiting factor is the broadcasters. All of this is of little use until the broadcasters get their act together and let us know when to turn the Neural mode on.

I don't actually have a TV receiver hooked up to my AVR right now (it's hooked up to a projector, and Standard Def TV is just too much to stand at those sizes). I wonder what the Neural mode sounds like when it's dealing with non-Neural (plain stereo) content.

m4rky_m4rk · 15-09-2009, 8:27 AM

I had been playing around with the various surround modes on my receiver to see which I liked best for TV. I had my amp set on ' TV surround' but decided to have a play and I left it on Neural for several weeks. It sounds to me as good as some as the other 'TV modes', at least with std material. Main thing for TV is for the dialogue to utilise the centre channel. Now that I know Neural can sound really good if the broadcast is neural encoded I will leave it at that for longer.

I wonder if my amp will give any indication of the higher quality audio? I will have a closer look at my manual on the subject. My amp is a Pioneer LX81.

It would be good if someone knew when Neural is going to be broadcast.

**Phil Hinton** · 15-09-2009, 10:00 AM

ESPN use it in the states and although I haven't tried it yet, I would imagine that it may be the case for their US programming on Sky. The Super Bowl was broadcast by Sky and Terrestrial channels with Neural encoding IIRC.

But yes, it would be nice to know when a broadcast is using the technology.

MeanDorris @ AV Aficionado · 15-09-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Hinton

ESPN use it in the states and although I haven't tried it yet, I would imagine that it may be the case for their US programming on Sky. The Super Bowl was broadcast by Sky and Terrestrial channels with Neural encoding IIRC.

But yes, it would be nice to know when a broadcast is using the technology.

So if it is included in the programming would it be decoded over the HDMI audio and/or an optical connection?

As we know to get DD5.1 with Sky you have to use the optical connection, it would be a pain to have to switch to HDMI just to get any Neural...

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4rky_m4rk

I had been playing around with the various surround modes on my receiver to see which I liked best for TV. I had my amp set on ' TV surround' but decided to have a play and I left it on Neural for several weeks. It sounds to me as good as some as the other 'TV modes', at least with std material. Main thing for TV is for the dialogue to utilise the centre channel. Now that I know Neural can sound really good if the broadcast is neural encoded I will leave it at that for longer.

I wonder if my amp will give any indication of the higher quality audio? I will have a closer look at my manual on the subject. My amp is a Pioneer LX81.

It would be good if someone knew when Neural is going to be broadcast.

Hi Mark, what happens if you have the 81 in Neural mode and you select a DD5.1 movie channel or something? I assume you have the 81 set to give priority to the optical connection for audio?

m4rky_m4rk · 15-09-2009, 12:53 PM

My LX81 is in Auto mode for audio selection. Its only connected by HDMI from my FreeSat reciever anyway. Audio is fine over HDMI with the Foxsat.

The LX81 remembers what I use for each source and audio format. So after setting Neural 6.1 or whatever for Sat stereo if I then switch to HD channel with Dolby Digital it switches to whatever I used last time for DD. Likewise if I switch to BD source then the aduio processing switches to PCM, THX, whatever was used last time I watched a BD. On going back to stereo Sat input then Neural is activated once more.

MeanDorris @ AV Aficionado · 15-09-2009, 1:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m4rky_m4rk

My LX81 is in Auto mode for audio selection. Its only connected by HDMI from my FreeSat reciever anyway. Audio is fine over HDMI with the Foxsat.

The LX81 remembers what I use for each source and audio format. So after setting Neural 6.1 or whatever for Sat stereo if I then switch to HD channel with Dolby Digital it switches to whatever I used last time for DD. Likewise if I switch to BD source then the aduio processing switches to PCM, THX, whatever was used last time I watched a BD. On going back to stereo Sat input then Neural is activated once more.

That's cool, didn't know it remembered a preference dependant on source within a particular input.

May give the Neural a try then....

David Mackenzie · 15-09-2009, 3:32 PM

It would be more trouble than it's worth for the UK broadcasters to take the Neural-encoded feed, decode it, strip the Neural stuff out, the re-encode. So it's fairly safe to assume that events like that will be broadcast over here with it intact. Even if the broadcasters are totally unaware of what they're sending out!

m4rky_m4rk · 15-09-2009, 5:00 PM

I found these sites which list some Neural broadcasts and other info:

THX Neural Surround

Neural Audio

Neural Audio - Radio

Performance Today: DTS Neural Surround Sound

Meandorris -- I put more LX related info info on the Pioneer LX thread.
Here

I started an AVF Neural thread here:

Neural Surround - Anyone actually heard a neural broadcast?

MaxFischer · 16-09-2009, 1:36 PM

If anyone is in central London and wants to see 3DTV, there is currently a demo stand in St Pancras station. I saw it on the way home from work yesterday.