[YNWA1892]

Originally Posted by djdhrubs

I'm not sure how much you watch United, but Welbeck is currently first choice ahead of Hernandez. Has been since the first few weeks of the season. Personally, I don't think he's as good a finisher but his build up play is much better than Hernandez and he's always improving.

Nani would have played instead of Park if Fergie had taken this seriously. As would Ferdinand instead of Smalling, Carrick instead of Jones in midfield, and Vidic instead of Evans had he been available.

Young has recently played himself into form, because Valencia was injured, but I won't obsess about that. I count 5 changes.

I think you'll see the serious team selection in the next league game.

Just to underline how seriously United take this competition...if a club like Spurs didn't take this competition seriously, how seriously do you think a club like United take it?

I have watched United and think Welbeck wasn't rested but was in fact dropped due to how bad he has played in the past few games, even my mates that are United supporters have said the same thing he has been crap recently, maybe Ferguson thought he would play Hernandez, whether Welbeck or Hernandez played it doesn't make the strikeforce any weaker.

I'm not going to keep arguing with you on here about whether it was a second string team or not because it wasn't, Ferguson put a team out he thought would win the game and maybe a couple of players would have played that didn't, Carrick, Ferdinand & Nani other than that it was a strong 11. Park has played in finals and Ferguson seems to like him for the bigger games.

Why is Berbatov not playing more, he has already said he isn't leaving, is he happy to sit there like Owen taking a weekly wage letting their careers go out on a low

I don't believe for one moment Ferguson doesn't want to win the Europa now that it is down to the last 16, the same would be said about Spurs should they have got through the group stages.

[djdhrubs]

Originally Posted by YNWA1892

I have watched United and think Welbeck wasn't rested but was in fact dropped due to how bad he has played in the past few games, even my mates that are United supporters have said the same thing he has been crap recently, maybe Ferguson thought he would play Hernandez, whether Welbeck or Hernandez played it doesn't make the strikeforce any weaker.

I'm not going to keep arguing with you on here about whether it was a second string team or not because it wasn't, Ferguson put a team out he thought would win the game and maybe a couple of players would have played that didn't, Carrick, Ferdinand & Nani other than that it was a strong 11. Park has played in finals and Ferguson seems to like him for the bigger games.

Why is Berbatov not playing more, he has already said he isn't leaving, is he happy to sit there like Owen taking a weekly wage letting their careers go out on a low

I don't believe for one moment Ferguson doesn't want to win the Europa now that it is down to the last 16, the same would be said about Spurs should they have got through the group stages.

Berba is a mystery to me too. He'll be sold in the summer I'm sure. Park used to be played in big games, not this season though.

The biggest hint is the number of changes from the Spurs game. That tells you everything you need to know. Watch how many changes he'll make for the next league game.

I'm sure it would be nice to win the Europa league. But nothing more than nice. Like the Carling Cup, its one of those competitions you take more and more seriously the further you get in the competition!

Fergie himself described the competition as a 'punishment', before been slapped on the wrist by Platini! Since then he's publicly showed respect to the tournament. But when you say in your pre-match press conference that United need to 'wake up' in this competition, that speaks volumes, don't you think?

[PU6HY]

Spot the United fan.
There was nothing wrong with Uniteds team. Hernandez was supposed to be the dogs and there were some LFL changes there. Don't spout cack saying it was a weak team cos it wasn't. It was weaker but not weak!! Don't tell me they didn't try to win the game either. Load of rubbish.

Bored of reading the same thing over and over again. Don't think I will anymore.

[djdhrubs]

I didn't say they didn't try to win the game! The players selected tried their best. But the team selection told you all you need to know.

I think if you read the last couple of pages of this thread its obvious what all United fans think of this competition. Everyone is very relaxed, jovial remarks, lots of credit to Bilbao. If this was an important game do you think United fans would have been quite so generous?!

[JimmyMac]

Admittedly it was quite a shock to me to see the humility from some, didn't expect that......

[PU6HY]

Originally Posted by djdhrubs

I didn't say they didn't try to win the game! The players selected tried their best. But the team selection told you all you need to know.

I think if you read the last couple of pages of this thread its obvious what all United fans think of this competition. Everyone is very relaxed, jovial remarks, lots of credit to Bilbao. If this was an important game do you think United fans would have been quite so generous?!

I think it's disgusting the way people look down at this competition. Who do they (or anybody) think they are to do so?! Same with Carling Cup. Attitude sucks. When you start off in your career to be a pro, to play in these competitions (yes ALL of them) should be a privilege. It makes me sick.

Admittedly the competitions format should be looked at but this is the business end now and don't tell me the teams left in it aren't trying to win it. And don't tell me if United get to the final the same United fans won't cheer like mad if they win it! Snuck up snobbery IMO.

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by PU6HY

I think it's disgusting the way people look down at this competition. Who do they (or anybody) think they are to do so?! Same with Carling Cup. Attitude sucks. When you start off in your career to be a pro, to play in these competitions (yes ALL of them) should be a privilege. It makes me sick.
Admittedly the competitions format should be looked at but this is the business end now and don't tell me the teams left in it aren't trying to win it. And don't tell me if United get to the final the same United fans won't cheer like mad if they win it! Snuck up snobbery IMO.

Unfortunately though, money talks.
Winning the UEFA cup is worth less to a club than reaching the group stages of the CL.
You can now see why the bigger clubs treat it with contempt, they have bigger fish to fry.
It's a great tournament for lower league clubs, for sure.

[djdhrubs]

Originally Posted by PU6HY

I think it's disgusting the way people look down at this competition. Who do they (or anybody) think they are to do so?! Same with Carling Cup. Attitude sucks. When you start off in your career to be a pro, to play in these competitions (yes ALL of them) should be a privilege. It makes me sick.

Admittedly the competitions format should be looked at but this is the business end now and don't tell me the teams left in it aren't trying to win it. And don't tell me if United get to the final the same United fans won't cheer like mad if they win it! Snuck up snobbery IMO.

If United did get to the final, of course they would cheer like mad if they win it. But that's exactly what I'm saying, this competition is like the Carling Cup. The further you get, the more seriously you take it. If you get knocked out early, no biggie.

I don't agree that this is the business end of the competition. Aren't there 16 teams left in it? That's a lot! There's still 6 or 7 games left if you want to win it, which is a lot of games to interrupt your flow in your domestic league title.

A team like Bilbao aren't going for the La Liga title. They're playing for 4th place, and are challenging for the Copa del Rei. They're a bit like the Liverpool of La Liga, in that domestic Cups and 4th place is the grand aim. It makes good sense for them to go for the Europa League. To them, the revenue from this competition would be a big deal. Then, if they can get into the Champions league next season, they're on the up and up...

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by PU6HY

2nd string United? Do me a favour. There's quite a few players out there tonight who you wouldn't call 2nd string!

Gotta agree with this.

Can't believe what some people consider a 2nd string side.

Please remember that every single Utd squad player is at one of the biggest teams in the world, that probably every single one earns more than the highest paid Bilbao player, and that they are meant to be on a different level to the likes of Athletic.

Lets look at this 2nd string starting lineup.

De Gea
Evra
Jones
Evans
Smalling (Carrick)
Rafael
Giggs (Nani)
Park (Anderson)
Young
Rooney
Hernandez

OK, so Ferdinand and Vidic aren't there, but who is a 2nd string player in that lineup apart from their replacements?

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by RMCF

Please remember that every single Utd squad player is at one of the biggest teams in the world, that probably every single one earns more than the highest paid Bilbao player,

You're not far wrong.
Llorente is their highest paid player ever, currently on approx £57k a week.
Quite incredibly, Smalling is on £50k a week at Man Utd.
I'll say that again to let it sink in....Smalling.....£50k a week......

[djdhrubs]

Originally Posted by RMCF

Gotta agree with this.

Can't believe what some people consider a 2nd string side.

Please remember that every single Utd squad player is at one of the biggest teams in the world, that probably every single one earns more than the highest paid Bilbao player, and that they are meant to be on a different level to the likes of Athletic.

Lets look at this 2nd string starting lineup.

De Gea
Evra
Jones
Evans
Smalling (Carrick)
Rafael
Giggs (Nani)
Park (Anderson)
Young
Rooney
Hernandez

OK, so Ferdinand and Vidic aren't there, but who is a 2nd string player in that lineup apart from their replacements?

Hernandez, Park, Jones/ Rafael, Giggs

A first choice line up would involve Welbeck, Nani, Jones playing at right back, 2 or 3 of Cleverley/ Scholes/ Carrick/ Anderson in centre midfield. Add to that the 2 missing centre backs.

I'm not disputing that the replacements are good players. Nor am I disputing the fact that United are one of the biggest teams in the world.

But ask yourself this. Why were there so many changes from the Spurs game? Which do you think was the more important game, Spurs or Bilbao? Finally, look at how many changes there'll be for the next league game.

United looked a lot more threatening in the last 20 mins once some first choice first teamers came into play...Carrick, Nani, Anderson.

[djdhrubs]

Originally Posted by FZR400RRSP

You're not far wrong.
Llorente is their highest paid player ever, currently on approx £57k a week.
Quite incredibly, Smalling is on £50k a week at Man Utd.
I'll say that again to let it sink in....Smalling.....£50k a week......

Again, your obsession with wages continues. Bit bizarre. What has that got to do with the quality of a team? Porto won the Champions league not so long ago with everyone being on very low wages.

Isn't it obvious that a not so good player at United will get paid more than a good player at a mid table club, simply because of the economics of their situation?

Do you think that people being paid the highest salaries always work the hardest or contribute most to society? No offence, but are you under 20 years of age?

[QBSBuck]

Being magnanimous in defeat doesn't translate to not giving a crap about the cup. I remember united's cup winners cup run and this fits in with that tradition

We gonna spank Bilbao at home...do it the hard way. It seems to be the united way.

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by djdhrubs

Isn't it obvious that a not so good player at United will get paid more than a good player at a mid table club, simply because of the economics of their situation?

I can't quite believe you've typed this.
It's okay for Man Utd to pay the likes of Smalling £50k a week, because they can afford to....
Hmmmm....

[djdhrubs]

Originally Posted by FZR400RRSP

I can't quite believe you've typed this.
It's okay for Man Utd to pay the likes of Smalling £50k a week, because they can afford to....
Hmmmm....

I never said its OK to, or that Smalling is more deserving of a higher salary than Llorente. But if you work for a higher profile company, you're more likely to get paid better. Simple economics.

If you move from Skoda to BMW, you'll probably get a pay rise, irrespective of the quality of your work. Welcome to the way the world works!

I wouldn't worry too much about the likes of Llorente or the youngster playing for Bilbao who scored their third goal. Its likely they'll move to bigger clubs and end up on higher wages than Smalling ever will!

Similarly, Danny Welbeck, who is on £15000 per week unless I'm mistaken, probably gets paid a lot less than a lot of Bilbao players. I'm sure he'll negotiate an improved contract soon, just like Chicarito did last season when he was on 15 grand a week.

[Soundburst]

Why are people talking about wages and comparing that to quality when it's actually about employers income resulting in proportionate wages?

Last night man united were ****. Gave the ball away. Had day dreams leading to goals. Defended awfully. And were punished by a better on the night bilboa. No ones saying suddenly that team are brilliant and better than man united. It's a single series of games. Sometimes it happens. It's not important in the grand scheme of things.

[djdhrubs]

I think this article (about City) also sums up my attitude to the Europa league, as a United fan.

Manchester City must dump the Europa League to save their season | Rob Smyth | Football | guardian.co.uk

[Soundburst]

Yeah let the folk who belong / deserve to be in that tournament be the ones who progress.

United and city got dumped out of the champions league. They shouldn't get to play with teams who earned their way through getting 4th place or whatever in their league. It's unfair.

[djdhrubs]

I'm not looking forward to tonight. I'm hoping Fergie doesn't select too strong a team.

Mancini hopes we get through to the next round, so that we're more likely to be drained for the title run-in. I agree with this thinking.

Unfortunately, Ferdinand might have to be played due to the injury situation. It's games like these when I'd much prefer the likes of Scholes and Ferdinand, and for that matter Rooney, to be sitting nice and comfy on the bench.

Hopefully it'll provide some game time for Valencia, returning from injury. I hope Pogba makes a start tonight.

I'm counting down to the proper big game at the weekend...

[Soundburst]

Wolves away could be a tricky tie if we're fatigued after a European away game. One of those annoying away ties. . .they ended our long unbeaten run too remember at this ground.

The league is important. I think we'll get pounded tonight if Athletic play like they did last week. . but I really couldn't care less. I'm more nervous about Wolves.

[jalaldevil]

The good old United tactic, play yourself down just in case you lose and if you happen to win you'll blast the rest of us.

Ain't falling for that one again SB!

[djdhrubs]

Originally Posted by jalaldevil

The good old United tactic, play yourself down just in case you lose and if you happen to win you'll blast the rest of us.

Ain't falling for that one again SB!

I don't know whether Soundburst really thinks that. What I know is that if United keep blundering through to the later rounds of this awful competition, it'll definitely affect their league run-in.

If they can get through whilst fielding weak teams, then that's fine. The minute he starts playing important players regularly in what is the Carling Cup of Europe, that's when I start worrying.

[Soundburst]

Originally Posted by djdhrubs

I don't know whether Soundburst really thinks that. What I know is that if United keep blundering through to the later rounds of this awful competition, it'll definitely affect their league run-in.

If they can get through whilst fielding weak teams, then that's fine. The minute he starts playing important players regularly in what is the Carling Cup of Europe, that's when I start worrying.

I feel this way. . .this tournament MUST be played in order to ensure we are fit and ready for the real games. Wolves is a real meaningful game. Tough away as it is as we found out when they ruined our unbeaten run. . .but players needing to play after an away european game that means very little makes it even worse.

We mustn't sacrifice our players fitness and readiness with this game.

I've said all along I couldn't care less about this cup. We don't even deserve to be in it. But if it starts affecting our league performance (and ANY extra game has the possibility to do so) then I shall be even more hateful towards it.

[Soundburst]

Oh no! We appear to be out

[djdhrubs]

Oh no. Rafael injured. We dont need this.

[Soundburst]

The oh so predictable injury in the oh so pointless match. There better be no more.

[Munkey Boy]

Hope City really go for it tonight. Winning is definitely a mentality we could do with getting back to.

[Soundburst]

Lol at fergies subs. Smart man!

[djdhrubs]

Originally Posted by Soundburst

Lol at fergies subs. Smart man!

Absolutely. Good stuff!

That baldy striker is useless!

[Soundburst]

Pogba was rightly booked and then there now he fouled a player from behind when there were two united players who could have stopped the player. Why wasn't he given a second yellow?! He needs to learn.