Denon DVD A11 or 3910

[colin2305]

Am off on Monday next to order a Denon 3910 to go with a 42" Philips 7830 LCD. In terms of connecting the two, am I correct in assuming the best results will be achieved by simply hooking the two to eachother via HDMI?

I noticed yesterday whilst at the AV shop, that there was a lovely ex-demo Denon DVD A11, and wondered if anyone has a view on whether gettting a little bargain on the DVD A11 would represent any sort of alternative? It comes with full warranty etc, so all things being equal, is the 3910 a better video performer?

[Nic Rhodes]

Certainly worth looking at A11 is a very nine player and if you can cut a deal....

[gandley]

be aware though that it shows macroblocking at a worse extent than any over DVD player. I sold my A11 because of this reason.

PQ wise i felt it did better with component, very very nice as long as you dont see the macroblocking bug. with DVI it did exagerate pic noise although gave a slight sharper picture.

In truth i would avoid it and the 3910 (ive had both). (the A11 is good audio wise though, so is a good machine to SDI mod)

[Nic Rhodes]

I won't disagree with the last statement, I think there is better out there, especially the 3910. A11 is better in my book though.

[gandley]

if MBE is not an issue then yeah, i would agree Nic.

[Cable Monkey]

Hook 'em up and take a look. If you are happy with the results then buy the one you want. Throw in a third 'wildcard' though like a suitably equipped Arcam just to get away from any Denon only bias.

[colin2305]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I went with the A11, though they are going to loan me a 3910 to bring home on Friday to try them back to back before I have to commit. I figured with the 3920 on its way next year, and given that they gave me a new A11 for as near as dammit the price of the 3910, it was either something obsolete or something nearly obsolete. They even part-exed my old Denon 2800MkII.

Regarding the Arcam that was suggested, I just haven't seen any around. It was tough enough finding somewhere reasonably nearby with a good selection of top-end Denons.

Regarding the Denon players in general, they seem to get fantastic reviews, and to be honest, unless the diferences in performance are cataclysmic, I'm really happy not to have to agonise over whether I should be buying an Arcam, a Pioneer, an Onkyo or a Marantz (all machines that I would consider). I found it tough enough to decide which Denon to buy!

As an aside, I connected the A11 to my Philips PF37 9986 using DVI. At 720P I get an excellent picture (though it can appear a bit 'jerky' in some sequences - I noticed it whilst testing with the opening sequence in Sahara where the camera pans around Dirk Pitts cabin/office) but the picture doesn't take up much of the screen. The borders both left and right are cut, and finish around 2 inches from the left and right screen borders. At 1080i the picture takes up the entire width of the screen, but the picture quality isn't quite as good.

There's nothing I can adjust on the TV itself to improve this. With DVI selected, the Philips goes straight into wide-screen mode (as it should) and I can't play with the picture dimensions. Is this normal?

I'll be interested to see how these Denons fare against my Sony 999ES - IMO, an underrated machine.

[colin2305]

Gandley, was reading your last post again. Two things...

1) What is an SDI mod?
2) Regarding what I posted above, do you think I will get better results with component connection to my TV? How much fuzzier will the picture be vs the DVI output?

Also, are there any other mods/updates I should ask/insist on whilst I have these guys fussing over me at the AV shop?

[colin2305]

I'm posting for myself at the moment - sorry. Just wanted to throw into the mix that I may ask for the loan of a DVD A1XV while I'm at it. Is this nuts? I'd probably swing one at 2k sterling. Is this lunacy? Does anyone out there have one of these things, and is it worth the premium? I'd love to buy something that I just felt would never need replacing or be topped. At least until the new format players hit the market. Though I am using LCD displays at the moment, the player will ultimately spend pretty much all of its time driving a DLP projector, so on a screen a couple of metres wide, I may well notice improvements not so visible on a 37 or 42" LCD display. I have DVDs in a quantity that requires measurement in hundredweight (a consequence of living in Germany - have you SEEN German TV??), so no Blu-Ray arguments are relevant to me yet.

And in case anyone is wondering, I don't fling money around like this lightly. Spending this money is going to hurt. A lot. I don't want to spoil the boat for the last ha'pence worth of tar, though. And if my system (incl. amp, speakers and projector) is going to cost 15 grand in total, or whatever, the extra grand for the A1XV may not be lunacy after all. Or...

Anyone with an opinion?

[rdt123]

Hi mate,

Having owned both i would say..........

By something like an arcam, for no other reason than the MB. Sure its great in many respects but you don't want to spend £1600 (in my case) only to have friends ask what those funny patches are!

I've said it before and i'll say it again, i have never seen an image as solid as my old D88+ by component

My two peneth

Rob

[Cable Monkey]

Originally Posted by colin2305

I don't want to spoil the boat for the last ha'pence worth of tar, though. And if my system (incl. amp, speakers and projector) is going to cost 15 grand in total, or whatever, the extra grand for the A1XV may not be lunacy after all. Or...

Anyone with an opinion?

I have an opinion, but no experience beyond an Arcam DV79 and Denon DVD 2910/3910. Spending that kind of cash should afford you the right to demo players for as long as you feel is necessary. There is a tendancy to blame dvd players for problems seen when said player works fine with another manufacturers display. The only way to eliminate factors like this is to delay purchase of your player until the rest of the kit is in and demo different players until you find the one you want. It is about finding the right combination, not focusing on one component...

[colin2305]

Probably right. I'll keep demo'ing for a bit. Though I am likely to stick with Denon. He has plenty of it, and I like the brick sh**house build quality of their equipment

[gandley]

Originally Posted by colin2305

Gandley, was reading your last post again. Two things...

1) What is an SDI mod?
2) Regarding what I posted above, do you think I will get better results with component connection to my TV? How much fuzzier will the picture be vs the DVI output?

Also, are there any other mods/updates I should ask/insist on whilst I have these guys fussing over me at the AV shop?

SDi is a pure digital connection taken straight from the Mpeg decoder.

you then send this to an external scaler for scaling and deinterlacing. This will bypass any macroblocking issues and in truth give a much better picture than any expensive DVD player. A similar thing is like sending an interlaced HDMI signal to an external processer (which seems to be gaining popularity).

Just make sure the A11`s firmware is up to date(same goes for the 3910)

As for the A1xv, it is very good, i had one on loan but if you are thinking of blowing 2K, i would go the external scaler route which i found to be better overall and your other sources will benefit as well (sky,vhs. etc etc).

personally i did not find the A1xv worth the asking price IMHO, but i did like it

DVI will be sharper depending on your display, but it does not always give a better picture than component. DVI and HDMI do tend to exaggerate image noise and artefacts but its not the same for every dvd player and the display will play its part also.
Component can still produce excellent images that tend to be free of the above issues and no they wont look fuzzy (depending on dvd player). Infact the A11 component out was pin sharp and very detailed.
you will just have to experiment

[fyonn]

Originally Posted by colin2305

and given that they gave me a new A11 for as near as dammit the price of the 3910

wow, I must have got a hell of a deal then. several months ago, I spotted an unloved (dusty, but good condition) denon a11 in sevenoaks which they sold to me for £500. been quite happy with it so far and it's just been upgraded to the -G firmware.

now, as I'm thinking about buying a tosh 37wlt58 lcd screen, I suppose i ought to find that long thread about MB on the a11 to see if I'm at risk. what does MB look like anyways?

actually, I remember plugging it into a samsung lcd at the shop when I had the firmware done. whilst almost everything looked great, highlander (10th anniversary edition) looked shockingly bad, and it was fine when played through my crt (via the a11). is that MB?

dave

[gandley]

whats important to remember is that some discs have MB in the transfer. so on any dvd player everyone has seen some form of MB.

MBE or macroblock-enhanced is the faroudja variant of said 23xx chips.
Looks like alot of dancing blocks than can also tinge in colour. for some reason most noticable in the bankground of an image. can be worse in low light scences but display dependent and bloody ugly.