R1 DVDs in PAL60 or NTSC

[Jon Weaver]

If watching a R1 DVD on a UK machine, what gives the better picture.. PAL(60) or NTSC?

I am thinking of getting a Toshiba SD-500E and have been told that it only outputs R1s in NTSC.

Whilst my TV supports this, I wonder if it will cause any problems..

[Reiner]

NTSC should not cause any problem. PAL60 is mainly intended for TVs which are not NTSC compatible, ie the color signal is converted PAL but the frequency of 60Hz is maintained.

Even your TV would not be NTSC compatible you can connect via Scart w/ RGB enabled (given that TV and DVD player support it) and voila, you get a picture and it's in color, too!

[Jon Weaver]

I was always under the impression that as NTSC was a different encoding method, the colours were 'different'.

This means that usually, if you have your TV setup for PAL, it would be different for NTSC..

Is this the case, or am I reading too much into it?

Say you had the choice to watch R1 in PAL60 or NTSC, which one would you choose?

[Mr.D]

Originally posted by Jon Weaver:
I was always under the impression that as NTSC was a different encoding method, the colours were 'different'.

This means that usually, if you have your TV setup for PAL, it would be different for NTSC..

Is this the case, or am I reading too much into it?

Say you had the choice to watch R1 in PAL60 or NTSC, which one would you choose?

PAL60.

Larger chromaticity range (PAL signal can describe more colours relative to an NTSC one: in my experience this is actually visible to most people) Dark greens and browns especially.

PAL also has the advantage of setting up for the same black point as component and RGB.This just makes things easier from a calibration point of view especially if your TV only saves one set of parameters..

Caveat: PAL60 via composite may cause some patterning over high frequency detail although in my experience on a few different sets this doesn't seem to be much of an issue and it still represented an improvement over NTSC.

Remember the PAL in PAL60 is generated directly from the component colour range on the disc not through an intermediate NTSC stage so its NOT a conversion its valid PAL.

This is only true for dvd however due to its component nature. Composite formats such as laserdisc and vhs have to perform a conversion to get PAL60 from NTSC material as the original material is actually native as NTSC. NTSC is preferred over PAL60 from these formats because of this.

Ideally you should be using RGB or component from dvd anyway.

[Confucius]

Originally posted by Mr.D:
Remember the PAL in PAL60 is generated directly from the component colour range on the disc not through an intermediate NTSC stage so its NOT a conversion its valid PAL.

Do you have a technical reference for this information, preferably web based

Hmm. Well, I've got a spanner to throw in.

I've just done a few tests on this with a region 1 copy of The 5th Element and my new Pioneer 737, which has an NTSC/PAL/AUTO switch for the TV system.

During playback tests switching the output to Auto and therefore outputting NTSC produces what I would call a noticabley sharper picture. Switching to PAL still looks great but there is definitely a difference. I'm using an RGB signal via scart lead.

Interestingly, the manual for the Pioneer says 'this player can convert NTSC to PAL'
So surely there must be an NTSC element to the coded material? In addition, several mod manufacturers make a big deal about adding NTSC output of r1 titles. Why have this if PAL60 is better?

Chris.

Chris

[Jeff]

Chris, I don't know enough about your hardware to work this out. When talking about PAL do you mean PAL 60? Also with RGB you shouldn't see any difference between NTSC and PAL60. Sorry you lost me completely on the last bit.

I've already submitted this once but it doesn't seem to have come up. Apologies if it is posted twice.

I've just done a quick check on my new Pioneer 737 with the R1 version of The Fifth Element. The player has an NTSC/PAL/AUTO TV switch at the back and running the film on both AUTO and PAL revealed that AUTO, and therefore NTSC, is noticably sharper - at least to me. I'm using an RGB Scart lead.

This would appear to make sense as many mod developers harp on about the ability to output NTSC raw - if PAL 60 we preferable why would they bother?

Chris.

[Jeff]

Originally posted by The Hippo:
This would appear to make sense as many mod developers harp on about the ability to output NTSC raw - if PAL 60 we preferable why would they bother?

Chris.

Multiregion mods have nothing to do with the video signal. It's up to the DVD player its self whether or not it can switch to NTSC. PAL 60 is a method used to play R1 movies on PAL TVs that can't display NTSC and can be an improvement over NTSC using composite. I would guess that what you are seeing is that by switching from auto to PAL you are also switching from RGB to composite.

Hmm. I would have thought NTSC and PAL wouldn't effect RGB either but the results speak for themselves. When viewing T5E with the Pioneer 737 set to PAL output (which is PAL60 for NTSC discs) the image is noticably different and less sharp than when viewing the same film with the machine set to automatically detect NTSC or PAL and output accordingly. But both are being viewed on a fully wired gold plated scart lead with the TV set to RGB input - not composite.

As for mods, my Panasonic A350 was purchased from Codefreedvd and they do region code changing via the parental controls. In addition, selecting 7 on this swtiched the machine from outputing PAL 60 for R1 discs to 'raw NTSC'.

Interestingly, when in raw NTSC mode that player displayed a very dark - barely seeable - image if you had set the player's AV output to RGB. Switching to s-video gave you the desired NTSC image. RGB with PAL60 selected was fine.

I don't claim to understand it, I'm just reporting the facts! :-)