1 analogue tuner!!! this sounds crazy

[Geofbob]

Brian, Sorry but I don't see why a twin tuner HDD/DVD recorder would necessarily need two encoders, any more than older version twin tuner PVRs needed two encoders. It isn't that people like the OP want to do lots of things at the same time, simply that they want to avoid too many pieces of equipment & remotes (especially connecting them all up!) They may not even want the ability to record/dub onto DVDs, but they almost certainly want to play commercial DVDs.

Anyway, whatever our particular "wish lists" are, for the present the OP will have to accept the fact that there is no HDD/DVD recorder on the market with two tuners. Geoff

[Gavtech]

Originally Posted by Geofbob

Brian, Sorry but I don't see why a twin tuner HDD/DVD recorder would necessarily need two encoders,

Hi Geoff

It would be necessary if the tuners were to be able to act independently [ and if they couldn't then obviously there is no point to them] ... because DVDR's do not record the incoming RAW stream but record and store an encoded stream.


As it happens, the next generation of HD recorders based on bluray, when they arrive, will have twin tuners because they are not bound by this limitation and will record the basic transmission stream.

[Geofbob]

Thanks for that, Gavtech, but I wonder whether the reason for there only being one tuner in HDD/DVD recorders isn't also commercial. It appears from their websites that both Sony & Panasonic have stopped making PVRs, and thus now make no twin-tuner recorders. This almost certainly boosts sales of their Freeview TVs, and ultimately will be far more profitable than putting a second tuner in the recorder. (NB I'm not intending to criticise them for this - after all, they're in business and times are hard!) Geoff

[Gavtech]

Originally Posted by Geofbob

Thanks for that, Gavtech, but I wonder whether the reason for there only being one tuner in HDD/DVD recorders isn't also commercial. It appears from their websites that both Sony & Panasonic have stopped making PVRs, and thus now make no twin-tuner recorders. This almost certainly boosts sales of their Freeview TVs, and ultimately will be far more profitable than putting a second tuner in the recorder. (NB I'm not intending to criticise them for this - after all, they're in business and times are hard!) Geoff

Yes indeed. I agree.

I'm on record here as having made that point before.

It is an interesting coincidence that most of the makers of single tuner only devices also make large screen TV's... and those who produce dual tuner [PVR] units don't.

[ramjet]

there is no doubt in my mind that they could produce a dual tuner pvr with a dvd recorder incorporated into the same box , so say a "marriage" of a sony 890 and a humax 9200t , or something similar

the advantages of this are not necessarily to watch one channel and record another as your tv should be capable of doing its own tuning for watching purposes , more so when there is a clash of programmes on the tv and you want to record 2 different channels at the same time !!!

one way around it is to use 2 boxes , either a twin tuner pvr like a humax or topfield , and a sony 890 or panasonic etc

another way is to use 2 or more sony x70 , x90 , or pannys or whatever

so I have several sony x70 models and can sort out programme clashes by recording different channels on each one , and I have a humax 8000t pvr for recording too.

the ideal and holy grail is a twin tuner dvdr that behaves like the humax or topfields but can also play or record a dvd , but until blu ray appears I dont think this will happen

so forget all the why dont you , and what ifs , the fact is that such a marriage would go down well with different people for different reasons , and in some cases it would be the one box and the one tv , hopefully using one remote control , but until then its having more than one that does it for me ( at the right price of course )

[bxd]

Hi,

While I can agree with ramjet, I'm sure that most people wouldn't be able to operate the "marriage" of a dvd-recorder with a twin tuner pvr.

Such a device might require two HDD units (one for the pvr and one for the DVD-recorder side) as I'm not sure the manufacturer would want to mix the RAW stream and the encoded stream onto the one drive. (Although the Panasonic Blu-ray recorder seems to be able to mix "direct" (i.e RAW) recordings with encoded ones on a single HDD.)

The encoder would be a bit of a "bottleneck" so you'd probably be better with twin encoders (one to record directly to the HDD-DVD and another to transfer recordings from the PVR system to the HDD-DVD) to give you some recording flexibility.

Transfers between the "RAW" HDD and the "DVD-rec" HDD would be in real time, so your device would be pretty busy most of the time.

Ultimately, most manufacturers would probably find this a poor "sell" particularly when they can flog you a new tv with freeview onboard.

When I was in Japan last year, there were very few dvd players in the shops but there was a huge number of DVD-recorders instead. The major manufacturers (Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic) won't be interested in PVRs if they benefit from the scale of world wide HDD-DVD-recorder production.

You could also argue that the PVR is a product for the digital transition. Once everyone has a digital tv, you could argue that most people wouldn't need a twin tuner PVR. However, once the digital transition is over we'll all be buying Blu ray recorders anyway.

Considering the number of people who have problems with a regular dvd-recorder, I'm sure this would be a struggle for the average person to operate or understand.

Brian

[ramjet]

I think you missed my point about multiple programmes on at the same time needing two or more recording devices to record them , whilst sometimes watching a third or fourth programme , or being out or on holiday and needing more than 1 device in order to record more then 1 programme

for years I have had 3 or 4 vcr recorders to allow multiple recording , and in the last 2 to 3 years have used a humax 8000t as well as a sony 970b , and now I use the humax and also use two modified 770b , an 870b and the 970b

if we all sat down and watched one channel , or watched one channel and recorded another channel ( like we did with analogue and vcr ) I might agree with you , but the fact is that many people watch time shifted programmes and so the common practice would be to use a twin tuner pvr , a dvdr and a tv with freeview , although others would put forward the new humax hdr sat pvr , or sky plus , or virgin plus , all of which you have ignored

the fact is that you may have your tv switched off ( no matter if its a sat tv , a freeview tv or an analogue tv ) and may want to record a programme on itv and a programme on itv4 and another on bbc1 , all 2000 to 2100 pm and with no + options like on ch4 with ch4 +1. and some would want one machine to record all this , it may not happen but its what people on here keep asking for day after day

my solution was two modified 770b recorders on different command codes , and in another room a modified 770b with the humax 8000t , and the ability to fastdub on the x70`s to a +rw dvd allows watching in any room with a dvdr in it , or in my spare room on a sony vx410 combi

the debate here is not about watching tv , its about multiple recording of different programmes , like on the humax 9200t or sly plus or virgin plus , or the humax foxsat freesat hdr , using one box rather than several boxes

now add a dvd recorder to that box and that is what people are looking for , and it wouldnt have to have more than 1 hdd fitted , as the others dont

but it wont happen until the blu ray appears so its all wishful thinking

which is why most people advocate a twin tuner pvr of any of the above types of pvr , and add a dvdr recorder so you can have up to 3 or 4 recordings going and still watch something else , or be away from the tv completely and view the programmes at your leisure

these average people dont seem to have problems operating sky plus or virgin plus as well as their dvd players/recorders , a ps3 , and xbox360 , a nintendo wii , a digital tv and sundry other items like a vcr, so give them some credit

remember , this forum is not the tv forum , its the recording and media forum and so like the pvr forum its about recording tv and video , and watching it at some other point in time , or as an alternative to whatever you may be watching at the time , or to go away and leave multiple recordings happening whilst the tv is in the OFF position

[comnut]

Finally, this subject has been addressed properly!

cygnusx04, you will have to decide what your dad can afford.. and get a good way to house multiple units!
The expensive one is Sky/VM plus, to provide the fullest channel choice, with a good freeview HDD/DVDR for archiving, in case of transmission problems..

Cheaper(no subscription), is to get TWO Sonys - they are very cheap, considering the massive storage space!!! You can set up to 3 'command modes' for the remote, so you could even have 3 units happily co-existing! :

My setup has only one RGB scart, so I have Sky, Tosh hdd/dvdr(2 scarts, one for Sky), Sony HDD/DVDR, and VCR, all chained by VCR thru TV Scarts - I can watch the VCR at the end of the chain by selecting 'input' on the units..

[Geofbob]

comnut, I hope you're not being serious (though I suspect you are). Given that cygnusx04's dad currently has a small analogue CRT TV & VCR; and cygnusx04 stated at the outset that "He doesn't really want multiple remote controls for lots of different devices and only has 1 SCART connection on the TV.", I think the last thing his dad wants is 4 or 5 separate boxes attached to his TV with a spaghetti junction of cabling!

As it is, he wil possibly have to settle for a Freeview box (or PVR) and a HDD/DVD recorder attached to his TV, unless he decides either not to bother with the DVD element or to buy a Freeview TV as well as the recorder.

[comnut]

Geofbob: I'm sorry to say, that is the case, due to many in UK just not paying good money...

( 4 or 5 ?? no, just 2... 2 sony's, or a HDD/DVDR & a PVR - Sky+ is a PVR too! )

Spaghetti junction? no, just TWO scart leads.. one from the HDD/DVDR to PVR, one from that to TV..
- The 'TV/DVD' button will switch the scart over from PVR to DVD and back..

(I have an odd thing with my sky, though... once it has 'autoview' switched to a programme, it wont 'let go' of the scart! - a quick 'off/on' on the remote solves it though.. )

- There are many that have the same misunderstandings as the first post, and I'm sure IF the public would start buying, they would be confident to start making them!!

But all they seem to be interested in is getting their downloads to play on them!!!
That is the main reason Pioneer only sell a few models here, and they are not cheap... they sell well in Europe, where they will pay good money...

But do note that many recorders do have a section on the remote that can operate the TV.. SKY is the best, customer service will even help you fully set it up, so it will not only do the basic stuff, but also special functions as well! I have only 2 remotes needed for TV, sky & DVR..

You can get a lot of channels for only £16 a month, or just get a 'freesat' card.. you will have to be a bit pushy, and say you just want a 'plain' box though..

Another solution is get a 'one for all' type remote, to stop the clutter.. Maplin even do a 'big button' version for those with big fingers or bad eyes.