Holding out for the Sony RDR-HXD870

[jockeymaster]

Funny thing happened with my own AV setup last night. My TV went blank, and stopped responding to the remote. Even the Power Off on the side of the TV didn't work.

Switched everything off at the wall socket ( including my DVD recorder ). Power TV back up - everything OK. Power up Samsung DVD-SH853M ( Yes, I know it's not the best ) recorder. switch TV to HDMI1. Now from the DVD recorder I get:

Pr1 - Av1 - Av2 - DV

When I press the Input Select on the 853M remote No picture except the Pr1 etc text, No DTV, just like my brothers Sony 870. Press DTV / Analogue on the 853M remote. Hey Presto, everthing OK again.

From the manual it looks like there isn't a DTV / Analogue key for the 870, just the Input key, which is still cycling:

pr1 - input1 - input2

But my brother also has a Sony 32D3000 TV, and the remote for that controls some of the functions of the 870.

Is there a key on either remote that would switch the 870 back into DTV, other than Input which doesn't list DTV ?

These problems are so similar there must be a link. Can't believe just by migrating from SCART to HDMI, like many others, has bricked the 870.

Thanks for your replies.

Just one more question:

How good it it with copying VHS to DVD compared to other DVD recorders?

I've been using a Panasonic DMR-HS2 for the last few years and it has served me well, but I know other DVD recorders aren't so good at it (the incredibly poor Philips 880).

Cheers.

[tredders]

I'm just about to click 'buy" on the Amazon site on one of these, but wondered if someone could help me with a couple of questions first? I've searched this thread, but can't find the definitive answers, so any help would be gratefully received.

I bought a new KDL32T3000 last weekend, along with a DAV-X10 home cinema. I'd already got Tivo, but quickly found out that Tivo wouldn't work with the in-built Freeview tuner on the new tele, hence I've been on the lookout for a decent PVR.

My questions are: -

1. How does the pausing of live TV work with the tv's inbuilt tuner? Or does it have to use one of the tuners in the PVR?

2. If the PVR tuner has to be used for watching live TV (in order to use pause etc), then does that mean that I can only watch one channel whilst recording another? i.e. both tuners in the PVR? Or can I still watch via the inbuilt tele tuner?

3. What would be the best way of setting up my kit? As I said, I've got a KDL32T3000, a DAV-X10 2.1 home cinema, Apple TV and a PS3. At the moment, the PS3 is connected via HDMI, as is the Apple TV (which also connects to the home cinema via phono cables). Finally, the home cinema connects to the tv via HDMI.

4. Finally, can I use the inbuilt TV EPG to record to the PVR, or do I have to switch to that to record something?

Thanks a lot in advance, and apologies if any of these have already been answered (or if they're really dumb questions )

Cheers

Mark.

[snaithg]

Originally Posted by tredders

I'm just about to click 'buy" on the Amazon site on one of these, but wondered if someone could help me with a couple of questions first? I've searched this thread, but can't find the definitive answers, so any help would be gratefully received.

I bought a new KDL32T3000 last weekend, along with a DAV-X10 home cinema. I'd already got Tivo, but quickly found out that Tivo wouldn't work with the in-built Freeview tuner on the new tele, hence I've been on the lookout for a decent PVR.

My questions are: -

1. How does the pausing of live TV work with the tv's inbuilt tuner? Or does it have to use one of the tuners in the PVR?

2. If the PVR tuner has to be used for watching live TV (in order to use pause etc), then does that mean that I can only watch one channel whilst recording another? i.e. both tuners in the PVR? Or can I still watch via the inbuilt tele tuner?

3. Finally, what would be the best way of setting up my kit? As I said, I've got a KDL32T3000, a DAV-X10 2.1 home cinema, Apple TV and a PS3. At the moment, the PS3 is connected via HDMI, as is the Apple TV (which also connects to the home cinema via phono cables). Finally, the home cinema connects to the tv via HDMI.

Thanks a lot in advance, and apologies if any of these have already been answered (or if they're really dumb questions )

Cheers

Mark.

I'm a bit confused. Are you assuming that the Sony RDR-HXD870 is a twin tuner PVR, it's not, it's only got a single tuner.


Graham.

[tredders]

Originally Posted by snaithg

I'm a bit confused. Are you assuming that the Sony RDR-HXD870 is a twin tuner PVR, it's not, it's only got a single tuner.


Graham.

Yeah, sorry Graham - too much browsing multiple PVR specs over the last hour! Ignore the twin tuner bit. Hopefully the questions still make sense though!

Mark.

[ramjet]

Originally Posted by tredders

I'm just about to click 'buy" on the Amazon site on one of these, but wondered if someone could help me with a couple of questions first? I've searched this thread, but can't find the definitive answers, so any help would be gratefully received.

I bought a new KDL32T3000 last weekend, along with a DAV-X10 home cinema. I'd already got Tivo, but quickly found out that Tivo wouldn't work with the in-built Freeview tuner on the new tele, hence I've been on the lookout for a decent PVR.

My questions are: -

1. How does the pausing of live TV work with the tv's inbuilt tuner? Or does it have to use one of the tuners in the PVR?

2. If the PVR tuner has to be used for watching live TV (in order to use pause etc), then does that mean that I can only watch one channel whilst recording another? i.e. both tuners in the PVR? Or can I still watch via the inbuilt tele tuner?

3. What would be the best way of setting up my kit? As I said, I've got a KDL32T3000, a DAV-X10 2.1 home cinema, Apple TV and a PS3. At the moment, the PS3 is connected via HDMI, as is the Apple TV (which also connects to the home cinema via phono cables). Finally, the home cinema connects to the tv via HDMI.

4. Finally, can I use the inbuilt TV EPG to record to the PVR, or do I have to switch to that to record something?

Thanks a lot in advance, and apologies if any of these have already been answered (or if they're really dumb questions )

Cheers

Mark.

the sony has two tuners , not one , it has 1 digital tuner and 1 analogue tuner , and can only use one at once

1) it does not do pause live tv ( unlike some pvr,s ) it does have a chase tv so you can set it recording and then watch the recording while its still ongoing , or watch any recording that it was preset to record , or any previous recording , or a dvd , but its actually chase live tv and not pause live tv

2) normally it uses its own tuner in the recorder , so your tv needs its own tuner or another source as an alternative in order to watch a different live program. so the recorder records on its own , and you watch tv using its own tuner or using an external source like sky or virgin or a freeview box

3) the sony has hdmi , component, rgb scart and composite , and thats the order in which they are best to worst too , so connect it in the best way you see fit according to the number of connectors on the equipment

4) I think you may be able to set it to use the tv tuner but its a waste of time as the recorder has its own tuners and line in sources too , so you normally use the epg in the recorder and set it from that , not from the tv epg

you can download a pdf manual for the whole range from their website if you want to check something

[tredders]

Originally Posted by ramjet

1) it does not do pause live tv ( unlike some pvr,s ) it does have a chase tv so you can set it recording and then watch the recording while its still ongoing , or watch any recording that it was preset to record , or any previous recording , or a dvd , but its actually chase live tv and not pause live tv

you can download a pdf manual for the whole range from their website if you want to check something

Thanks for the reply. Strangely, the Sony website has two features on it's comparison of the current PVR range, "Pause Live TV" and "Live TV Pause"! Apparently the 870 has the latter, but not the former. Go figure....

I've already downloaded the PDF manual, but it doesn't really answer the questions I asked, hence my posting here.

Cheers

Mark.

[ramjet]

you will find inconsistencies in many translated manuals , and errors too

but this recorder does not have twin tuners or pause live tv , no matter who tells you what

it has two tuners ( not one as mentioned earlier ) but can only use one at a time , so you cannot view one channel and record another channel or source , you can only see what it is recording or use limited functions to view dvd or previous recordings while it is busy

sony may not know the difference , or care , or the significance may be lost in translation

pause live tv is available on humax pvr,s etc and is where you instruct it to buffer the programmes by continuous recording , so you can rewind and watch something you may have missed. the 870 does not do that , but if you have pressed the rec button , you can rewind from a later point back to when you started the recording , but you cannot change channel once its recording whereas a pvr will let you channel hop and still carry on buffering the recording for you

its a common misconception in this recorder forum that pause live tv is on the sony and the pioneer , when its chase live tv and only if you have started to record , as it cannot rewind back to anything prior to the rec button being pressed

so if you were to watch a footy match , and pressed record at the start of the game , and never stopped it or changed channel , you then have the ability to pause live tv , rewind it , chase tv etc , but its only because you initiated the recording before needing the function , it does not do it for you like a humax can be set to do

[snaithg]

One last attempt to clear up any remaining misunderstandings.

First of all I didn't mean to confuse you any further regarding the Twin Tuners issue. It is generally assumed that when discussing PVR's that Twin tuners means the ability to record two channels at once. I automatically assumed that this was also your definition. The use of the "Dual" or "Two" tuners terminology is just pure marketing hype to try and pretend the specification of the device is higher than it really is.

With regards to pausing live TV, this IS in fact supported on this model no matter what others might say. However it may not behave in the way that you would like.

When watching a "live" programme from the recorder, you can then Press the "Pause TV" button on the remote. After a delay of about 2 to 3 secs the TV picture will pause. From this point onwards you are recording the programme that you were watching. If you now press "Play" you will go into "Chase Play" mode. You can then use some of the normal DVD controls to control the playback. When you have finished you have to "stop" the recording to resume "live" TV. The programme is then left as a recording on your HDD which you have to remember to delete.

This is nowhere near as good as the Sky solution where you already have up to 60mins of "live" recording cached on the HDD. With Sky you can press pause and it will pause immediately, you can also rewind TV as far back as the point at which you changed to that channel to a maximum of 60mins (depending on settings), you can exit this mode at any time and reactivate it again at your leisure. Also there are no messy recordings left over to delete (unless you asked it to record as well).

Sorry if the above seems complicated.


Graham.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by ramjet

you will find inconsistencies in many translated manuals , and errors too

but this recorder does not have twin tuners or pause live tv , no matter who tells you what

it has two tuners ( not one as mentioned earlier ) but can only use one at a time , so you cannot view one channel and record another channel or source , you can only see what it is recording or use limited functions to view dvd or previous recordings while it is busy

sony may not know the difference , or care , or the significance may be lost in translation

pause live tv is available on humax pvr,s etc and is where you instruct it to buffer the programmes by continuous recording , so you can rewind and watch something you may have missed. the 870 does not do that , but if you have pressed the rec button , you can rewind from a later point back to when you started the recording , but you cannot change channel once its recording whereas a pvr will let you channel hop and still carry on buffering the recording for you

its a common misconception in this recorder forum that pause live tv is on the sony and the pioneer , when its chase live tv and only if you have started to record , as it cannot rewind back to anything prior to the rec button being pressed

so if you were to watch a footy match , and pressed record at the start of the game , and never stopped it or changed channel , you then have the ability to pause live tv , rewind it , chase tv etc , but its only because you initiated the recording before needing the function , it does not do it for you like a humax can be set to do

It's not quite like that. The Sony has a TV Pause button which does pause the TV, and automatically starts recording the channel. you can also change channels whilst it is doing this, and the channel will change when you catch up with the recording.

It's rewind Live TV that is missing.

[tredders]

Thanks again for the replies. Looks like I'll be missing out on some functionality that Tivo offers (ie constant recording so you can always rewind live TV). However, it still looks like a nice bit of kit.

[ramjet]

Originally Posted by tredders

Thanks again for the replies. Looks like I'll be missing out on some functionality that Tivo offers (ie constant recording so you can always rewind live TV). However, it still looks like a nice bit of kit.

that was the basis of my point , although it seems different ppl have differenct concepts of this issue

my point is that its not like using sky plus or a humax pvr where you set it to constantly record the channel you are on , so you have to make a conscious decision to press either the record button or the pause tv button and make it record , then you will have the option of rewinding the programme but only back to the point you started recording in the first place

this is a recorder , it is NOT a pvr , although it does have some pvr functionality

this is the recorder forum , not the pvr forum , and recorders do not have twin tuners , unlike say the humax 9200 or similar topfield or sky plus for instance, we have a separate pvr forum for dealing with pvr issues , and as recorders do not have twin tuners there is little point debating the issue here

those of you wanting pvr functions should buy a pvr , like I have the humax 8000t for instance , and I can assure you that the sony is not the same when it comes to this issue , as my pvr has a constant recording going on without my intervention

perhaps I didnt explain it properly , but I do know what I mean , and although I like the sony ( I have two of the 970 ) , it is not the same as sky plus or my humax in this regard

that is why there are 2 forums on here , 1 discussing recorders , the other discussing pvr.s

yes it would be great to combine the best of both , but it hasnt happened yet

so please remember this chase live tv , or pausing live tv , works but only after you press the button , or if you have the recorder already recording from say the timer in which case you can rewind the live tv by viewing your current recording instead

so you see , its complicated and hard to put into words , but a pvr it isnt

if you want full pvr functions , then buy a pvr , if you can live with the sony ideas and terminology on a pvr , then this product is very good , but it isnt perfect by any means and it cannot be set to an always record so you cannot have rewind tv without manual intervention which means you must start a recording if you think you need a rewind function

[ramjet]

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

It's not quite like that. The Sony has a TV Pause button which does pause the TV, and automatically starts recording the channel. you can also change channels whilst it is doing this, and the channel will change when you catch up with the recording.

It's rewind Live TV that is missing.

not quite true , it can rewind live tv but only if you have initiated a recording in some way first

ie:- if it is recording you can rewind live tv , but it does not auto buffer and so you cannot always rewind live tv especially when you have not started a recording , but once a recording is ongoing it can rewind on that recording which gives you an effective method of rewinding live tv , and I have used this function on several occasions

the actual missing function is actually a 1 hour auto-buffer in the menu which would allow you to rewind live tv at any time

remember that a recorder can be off and doing nothing at all whilst in standby , whereas a pvr tends to be on all the time and so can auto buffer the currently chosen channel by a preset function in the menu

[Zaphod_B]

Hi there

Hopefully this will clarify.

As ramjet says, the Sony will not automatically record a channel (in the same way that a Sky+ box des for example) but you can pause live tv (providing that you have set the recorder up correctly).

On pages 149/150 of the manual, check that the "TV Pause" function is set to "Recorder's Tuner".

Then, if you are watching (say Match of the Day) and the phone rings, press the "TV Pause" button on the remote (on the lhs of the remote, about 2/3 of the way down just above the "Rec" button).

The recorder will start recording immediately (I know I've just tried it out). You can then fast forward/pause/rewind but only as far back as you were when you pressed the "TV Pause" button.

To exit this, press the "Rec Stop" button. The recording appears in the Title List and you can edit in the normal way if desired.

Hence, you can pause live TV - but it is probably more "correct" to say that this is actually chasing playback.

Note whilst operating this function you cannot change the channel that you are watching allowing the recorder to continue buffering the programme.

Hope this helps.

Zaph

[snaithg]

Is everything all clear to you now "tredders" ?


Graham.

[Zaphod_B]

Originally Posted by tredders

My questions are: -

1. How does the pausing of live TV work with the tv's inbuilt tuner? Or does it have to use one of the tuners in the PVR?

To go back to your original post and answer the question above...

Since you have a SONY KDL32T3000 TV, you can use the TV's tuner to pause and record live TV (actually chase playback) using SONY's SMARTLINK feature via a SCART connection.

Page 87 of the manual tells you how to do this.

Using pages 149/150 of the manual, check that the "TV Pause" function is set to "TV's Tuner".

You can download the TV's preset programme positions using the "Download from TV" of "Auto Setting" in the "Analog Tuner" setup (see p 133). Note that this only seems to be an option that is available for the ANALOG TUNER.

The "Pause TV" doesn't work if the programme positions are set differntly in the DVD Recorder and the TV, if you are watching TV via an external source (eg a VCR or Sky box), if you are not using a SCART connection between the TV and DVD Recorder or if the TV doesn't support the SMARTLINK feature.

Z

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by Zaphod_B

To go back to your original post and answer the question above...

Since you have a SONY KDL32T3000 TV, you can use the TV's tuner to pause and record live TV (actually chase playback) using SONY's SMARTLINK feature via a SCART connection.

Page 87 of the manual tells you how to do this.

Using pages 149/150 of the manual, check that the "TV Pause" function is set to "TV's Tuner".

You can download the TV's preset programme positions using the "Download from TV" of "Auto Setting" in the "Analog Tuner" setup (see p 133). Note that this only seems to be an option that is available for the ANALOG TUNER.

The "Pause TV" doesn't work if the programme positions are set differntly in the DVD Recorder and the TV, if you are watching TV via an external source (eg a VCR or Sky box), if you are not using a SCART connection between the TV and DVD Recorder or if the TV doesn't support the SMARTLINK feature.

Z

It works if you are connected to line 1, and watching line 1. So you can pause Virgin for example. And I don't call Rewinding a recorded program LIVE. If you are already recording it isn't LIVE anymore. So I say you can't rewind Live TV. I know it is a strange way to look at it, but it does simplify the matter to say that a recording isn't live.

[ramjet]

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

It works if you are connected to line 1, and watching line 1. So you can pause Virgin for example. And I don't call Rewinding a recorded program LIVE. If you are already recording it isn't LIVE anymore. So I say you can't rewind Live TV. I know it is a strange way to look at it, but it does simplify the matter to say that a recording isn't live.

its a very strange way to look at it and hence causes confusion

ALL rewinding of live tv is dependent on a recording being present on the hdd , this is true of a v+ , a sky+ , a humax or topfield or similar pvr and is the same on the sony recorder too

anytime you rewind the program back , or you chase live tv , or you watch the program being recorded , you are then watching a recording until you catch up with the live program again

so at all times you are watching a recording UNTIL you get to the live transmission point.

what you are saying is your interpretation of the facts , same as we all are , but unless you watch a live transmission you are watching a buffered recording of some sort

even a live transmission isnt necessarily live either

try putting sky on in one room on bbc1 , the freeview recorder in another room on bbc1 , and analogue tv in another room on bbc1

now tell me if they are all in sync , or is one in front of the other ?

so which one is live ? the one you hear and see first ? ( analogue )

its only no longer a live transmission when it has ceased transmission and so you only have a recording left ( ie:- it has an end point )

[tredders]

Thanks again for all the replies.

From reading everything here and the recommended sections of the manual, it looks like the only functionality I'll be missing out on from Tivo is the continuous record (ie the ability to rewind tv even if I've not been specifically recording it). However, the pros outweigh the cons for me.

I'll order this later on and post my thoughts on it once I've had a play.

Cheers again

Mark

[Zaphod_B]

No problem Mark!

That's what the forum is for after all

Thanks for the thanks btw

Let us know how you get on.

Zaph