Holding out for the Sony RDR-HXD870

[John Martin]

Originally Posted by stormeh

Or if you want it small enough to fit on one disk rather than reduce the quality when you dub, why not just record in the mode you find appropriate for the disk size and program length? Another no brainer. I still just can't see why the average joe would need real-time dubbing and why John is making such a big drama about it.

Mike

That's it. I'm giving up on you lot. If you're happy to be screwed by Sony's indifference and accept a product that doesn't do a basic task which their earlier recorders do, then fine.

Me? I'll continue to try to get Sony to fix the machine, even though I don't own it. email has now gone out to BBC Watchdog.

I think I'll try writing direct to Sony's UK Managing Director.

[HHGTTG]

Originally Posted by Tony212

Being able to automatically locate adverts sounds like a great facility. What's it called on the 970?

Does anyone know whether the 870 offers it?

Dont't want to seem too naive but how does this model locate adverts? What principles or electronic wizardry would it employ?

[The Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by Orinj

The Guide Plus sytstem has completely replaced the standard timer recording functionality. Whilst I have been used to the Video Plus numbers I can understand why it has been dropped. Once I got used to looking through the guide and selecting the program I want to record, it's quite easy.

quite easy??? How easy do you want it? It's only scrolling to the programme that you want, pressing the red button, and that's it - the programme will record.

Not being able to quickly add a few minutes to the end of a timed recording is a slight nuisance but forgiveable. What I'd like to know is if there's a quick way to jump a week or a few hours ahead. I can only navigate an hour or a day at a time.

(1) Press the "Guide" button and you're taken to the GUIDE Plus+ "Home" page
(2) Scroll down to the channel you want
(3) Press the "right arrow" to move along the channel time-wise. The more you press the right arrow, the later the time goes, ie, if it's 15.30 now and you want to set the timer for a programme starting at 20.00, just keep pressing the right arrow until you get there.
(4) When you've got to the programme you want to record, press the red button (and you can stop there if you want to, the programme will record with just that information - otherwise continue to 5)).
(5) If you want to add, say, 10 minutes to the recording in case it's running late, press the green button to go to the "Schedule" screen. On the left will be the name of the programme and on the right will be the current settings for Quality, Frequency and Destination
(6) Using the right arrow again, scroll to the right to find Timing and Genre and use the green button to add +10, +20, +30 or VPS/PDC

You can't jump a week ahead in one go but using the double-right arrow (fast forward) will take you one day ahead - just press it 7 times

The Sorcerer

[Orinj]

Thanks Sorceror and stormeh. I only have the analogue Guide Plus which is updated via Sky so I wonder if that effects the use of the 'Info' button as it doesn't seem to do anything when I'm watching TV channels. Maybe it only works with Freeview channels. I'll check again.

The display button does indeed provide lots of useful information (it's nice to see the bit rate) but the remaining time cannot be shown on the unit's LCD display, only on screen. I can live with it and am so far very impressed with the unit.

I also like the improvements to: 1) Speed and response of the unit to disc loading and menu commands, 2) DVD layer changes which are much quicker and barely noticeable on some discs. 3) RGB input via Line 1 4) Moving thumbnails for titles that have been recorded

[HHGTTG]

Originally Posted by The Sorcerer

quite easy??? How easy do you want it? It's only scrolling to the programme that you want, pressing the red button, and that's it - the programme will record.


(5) If you want to add, say, 10 minutes to the recording in case it's running late, press the green button to go to the "Schedule" screen. On the left will be the name of the programme and on the right will be the current settings for Quality, Frequency and Destination
(6) Using the right arrow again, scroll to the right to find Timing and Genre and use the green button to add +10, +20, +30 or VPS/PDC

You can't jump a week ahead in one go but using the double-right arrow (fast forward) will take you one day ahead - just press it 7 times

The Sorcerer

Surely, as in my Pioneer's Guideplus+ EPG, you can highlight the LH tile which includes the, to be recorded programme's title and then press 'edit' (green button) and thereby add time to the start of the programme and also the end - this is how I use mine, anyway.

[stormy]

Originally Posted by HHGTTG

Surely, as in my Pioneer's Guideplus+ EPG, you can highlight the LH tile which includes the, to be recorded programme's title and then press 'edit' (green button) and thereby add time to the start of the programme and also the end - this is how I use mine, anyway.

Yes you can but thats more complicated than doing 'Red' to set the recording, then a 'Green' (for schedule) then Right (to scroll the option) and then 'Red' to increment time added at the end of the recording. (its done in 10 min increments from +10, +20 to +30.). I bet you can do that on your Pioneer too, as its a Guide Plus+ feature. Check it out.

You have to scroll through a few options to do it with the manual timer method you describe.

But as Orinj said, it would be nice to change to to "+10" default for all recorder programs. Although as I said too, I have only missed the end of one program due to BBC News interuptions. The rest have been ok without padding.

Originally Posted by Orinj

The display button does indeed provide lots of useful information (it's nice to see the bit rate) but the remaining time cannot be shown on the unit's LCD display, only on screen. I can live with it and am so far very impressed with the unit.

Yeh, I find the on unit display to be utterly useless because its so dim so it probably would not help if I could get what you want to display. Thats another gripe..

I did notice something else annoying last night, my Guide Plus+ seemed to have somehow 'reset' and rebuilt all the guide and added channels I had switched off and stuff. Any idea why that would be?

Mike

[The Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by HHGTTG

Surely, as in my Pioneer's Guideplus+ EPG, you can highlight the LH tile which includes the, to be recorded programme's title and then press 'edit' (green button) and thereby add time to the start of the programme and also the end - this is how I use mine, anyway.

Yes, you could, but if you're going to do that then you may as well just set the recorder manually using the "Timer" button rather than the GUIDE Plus+ EPG, the amount of button presses will probably be the same

Usually, in my experience anyway, it's only BBC1, BBC2, ITV1, CH4 and FIVE that need to be padded out in case they start early or finish late and you can get round that by using VPS/PDC. I know some people consider that it's unreliable but in all honesty, I've probably only had about a dozen failed recordings due to PDC failure in as many years. I'm in the Granada area with transmissions from Winter Hill and here, PDC is very good. PDC isn't available on any Sky channels, but then neither do the start early or run late - they're always bang on time.

[The Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by Orinj

Thanks Sorceror and stormeh. I only have the analogue Guide Plus which is updated via Sky

That's the one I have too so everything I can do on mine, you should be able to do it as well

[czechinuk]

I am just about to take the plunge and purchase the 870 but I have one question.

Does the Analogue tuner do PAL D/K (Eastewrn Europe) as well as PAL I (UK)?I split my time between UK and Czech so want a recorder that will work in both countries.

Cheers,

Matt

[Pedantic]

Originally Posted by czechinuk

I am just about to take the plunge and purchase the 870 but I have one question.

Does the Analogue tuner do PAL D/K (Eastewrn Europe) as well as PAL I (UK)?I split my time between UK and Czech so want a recorder that will work in both countries.

Cheers,

Matt

According to the Sony site it does.

http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowProdu...D+Recorder#tab

Analogue Terrestrial Tuner
PAL-B/G,D/K,I,SECAM-L,D/K

[czechinuk]

Thanks Pedantic.

I will order one today.

Does anyone recommend a good online retailer?

Matt

[The Sorcerer]

Originally Posted by czechinuk

Thanks Pedantic.

I will order one today.

Does anyone recommend a good online retailer?

Matt

Got mine from http://www.digital-point.co.uk/model-3064.html and it was delivered already modded for multi-region, not that that matters to me

[fitshace]

Originally Posted by czechinuk

Does anyone recommend a good online retailer?

Matt

http://www.totaldigital.biz/index.ph...oducts_id=2195

[stormy]

Originally Posted by HHGTTG

Dont't want to seem too naive but how does this model locate adverts? What principles or electronic wizardry would it employ?

I have no clue, but it does, it marks them as chapters in the editor and makes them pretty easy to find and edit out.

Mike

[John Martin]

Originally Posted by stormeh

I have no clue, but it does, it marks them as chapters in the editor and makes them pretty easy to find and edit out.

Mike

I said I wouldn't contribute to this thread again, but the 'adverts as separate chapter' thing is not reliable. Even a change in aspect ratio of the transmission doesn't always generate a chapter break. This is as applied to the 870 and 710, but as the 970 is basically just the 870 with a larger HDD, then I would expect it to apply to that recorder also.

The 860 doesn't even attempt the trick, but just inserts chapter breaks at a preset interval, BTW.

[AndrewH13]

Originally Posted by John Martin

I said I wouldn't contribute to this thread again, but

Keep in here, your letters to Sony are worthy.

[stormy]

Originally Posted by John Martin

I said I wouldn't contribute to this thread again, but the 'adverts as separate chapter' thing is not reliable.
Even a change in aspect ratio of the transmission doesn't always generate a chapter break. This is as applied to the 870 and 710, but as the 970 is basically just the 870 with a larger HDD, then I would expect it to apply to that recorder also..

In *my* experience the advert marking has been good enough for me to locate and then flick a few frames either side to remove them. Its a welcome feature for me even if its not 100% frame accurate, again not something I bloody need.

Sorry for the tone but I just get really annoyed that you seem to think this machine should be a pro editor or something for like ~£200. The advert marking is usually within about 12-25 frames for me, close enough to locate and erase.

Sorry it doesnt work for you and yes your letters to Sony are worthwhile and we appreciate it but your constant slagging off of anything that anyone seems to suggest is good about the 870 is just getting tedious.

John I apologise for this outburst, not a good day and I should not take it out on you. Maybe my outburst was a bit too vehement

Mike

[HHGTTG]

Originally Posted by stormeh

In *my* experience the advert marking has been good enough for me to locate and then flick a few frames either side to remove them. Its a welcome feature for me even if its not 100% frame accurate, again not something I bloody need.

Sorry for the tone but I just get really annoyed that you seem to think this machine should be a pro editor or something for like ~£200. The advert marking is usually within about 12-25 frames for me, close enough to locate and erase.

Sorry it doesnt work for you and yes your letters to Sony are worthwhile and we appreciate it but your constant slagging off of anything that anyone seems to suggest is good about the 870 is just getting tedious.

Mike

Tut, tut, Mike. Even I would not have been as vehement as that! I think you might have accused me, incorrectly as it turns out, as being a Sony 870 detractor.
As is happens, I think that I have convinced myself to purchasing this model in view of its good price, especially via an online purchase even though I don't like buying such items by this method.
My local Sony Centre want £299.99 for it and I have got to weigh out the convenience of a local purchase against courier-delivered goods and waiting in etc but a saving of £75 is very enticing, I must say.

[Orinj]

Originally Posted by HHGTTG

As is happens, I think that I have convinced myself to purchasing this model in view of its good price, especially via an online purchase even though I don't like buying such items by this method.
My local Sony Centre want £299.99 for it and I have got to weigh out the convenience of a local purchase against courier-delivered goods and waiting in etc but a saving of £75 is very enticing, I must say.

If you've taken this long to decide on purchasing this item, surely a couple of days waiting for it to be delivered shouldn't be a problem.

[HHGTTG]

Originally Posted by Orinj

If you've taken this long to decide on purchasing this item, surely a couple of days waiting for it to be delivered shouldn't be a problem.

It's not JUST the waiting in, it's the whole business of buying expensive, items online. 'What if' comes to mind, such as faults and having to return said items. It is very tempting but I don't know whether the savings outway the comfort and knowledge of being able to return any sub-standard or faulty items to local suppliers.
Believe me I do a lot of internet shopping but not for serious purchasing, only for things like blank media, photographic and printer related items and batteries etc. etc.

[czechinuk]

I have just ordered one from Digital-Point.

Hopefully it will be delivered tomorrow.

[daveb975]

Originally Posted by HHGTTG

It's not JUST the waiting in, it's the whole business of buying expensive, items online. 'What if' comes to mind, such as faults and having to return said items. It is very tempting but I don't know whether the savings outway the comfort and knowledge of being able to return any sub-standard or faulty items to local suppliers.
Believe me I do a lot of internet shopping but not for serious purchasing, only for things like blank media, photographic and printer related items and batteries etc. etc.

I generally buy all of my electronics online, but I bought my '870 from John Lewis for £299. At the time, it was about £60 more expensive than the cheapest online price, but I justified it by not having to take time off waiting for a courier, and the 2 year warranty which is worth a bit.

The advantage with JL is that they will price match any non-web price for a month after purchase.

[Tony212]

Empire Direct have a good compromise solution - order on line and then pick up your purchase from one of their warehouses at your convenience. They're currently doing the HXD870 for 240.00 and the 970 for 299.00.

Not the best prices available but not too bad if you happen to live near one of their warehouses:

http://www.empiredirect.co.uk/conten...atures/stores/

Also, as RGB Direct have a store/showroom as well as an on line operation I wonder if John Lewis would price match them? They're currently doing the 870 for 223.00:

http://www.rgbdirect.co.uk/

If you do get a price match please let me know!

[John Martin]

Originally Posted by stormeh

In *my* experience the advert marking has been good enough for me to locate and then flick a few frames either side to remove them. Its a welcome feature for me even if its not 100% frame accurate, again not something I bloody need.

Sorry for the tone but I just get really annoyed that you seem to think this machine should be a pro editor or something for like ~£200. The advert marking is usually within about 12-25 frames for me, close enough to locate and erase.

Sorry it doesnt work for you and yes your letters to Sony are worthwhile and we appreciate it but your constant slagging off of anything that anyone seems to suggest is good about the 870 is just getting tedious.

John I apologise for this outburst, not a good day and I should not take it out on you. Maybe my outburst was a bit too vehement

Mike

I really don't have much against the 870. Overall I think it is reasonable value for money. However, I bought it as a recorder, amd use it mainly for 'time-shifting'. Nevertheless the DVD recording/dubbing aspects are very important to me, and what really angered me was that Sony's earlier DVD recorders manage real-time dubbing with no problem.

I agree that on the whole you get what you pay for ... after all, I use a Naim DVD5 as the main CD/DVD player for my AV system, and that player costs more than 10 times what the 870 retails at - and it doesn't even upscale. Even then the DVD5s picture quality using the TVs upscaling is IMO several orders of magnitude better than that of the 870, 860 or 710.

I do believe that the 870 has a nicer remote control than the very spongy ones supplied with the 710 or 860.

Let's just agree to differ on what we find acceptable, and I will continue with my attempts to get Sony to fix the dubbing aspect ratio problem, even though I no longer own the 870.

On a different tack, I am beginning to wonder about the Sony DVD recorders' decoding software. I have noticed both with the 710 and 860 (and to a lesser extent with the 870 IIRC). This is that when I record off-air material (doesn't matter which aspect ratio)and play it back on the Sony from either the HDD or a DVD-R copy, some strange artefacts occasionally appear on the recording, e.g. sometimes parts of faces seem to remain immobile, while the rest of the picture moves, or perhaps vertical lines in the background may gently move from side to side (I mean compressing in and out, rather than just lateral shift). If I record an offending item onto DVD-R, finalise it, and play it back on the Naim, no such effect is seen, so it must be something in the Sonys' playback decoding which is producing it. I don't know whether this applies to pre-recorded DVDs on the 710 and 860 in my study as I never use the Sonys for that kind of playback, but I have noticed it on pre-recorded commercial DVDs when using the 710 in the living room. It's not a very obvious thing, but like many other minor problems, once you're aware of it, it can become very annoying. I suspect that this is one part of 'getting what you pay for', and is really a minor thing in the context of the price of the 870

Now, I really must get around to writing that letter to Sony UK's Managing Director, although I believe I'll probably get yet another 'brush off'

[HugoFJH]

Originally Posted by John Martin

On a different tack, I am beginning to wonder about the Sony DVD recorders' decoding software. I have noticed both with the 710 and 860 (and to a lesser extent with the 870 IIRC). This is that when I record off-air material (doesn't matter which aspect ratio)and play it back on the Sony from either the HDD or a DVD-R copy, some strange artefacts occasionally appear on the recording, e.g. sometimes parts of faces seem to remain immobile, while the rest of the picture moves, or perhaps vertical lines in the background may gently move from side to side (I mean compressing in and out, rather than just lateral shift). If I record an offending item onto DVD-R, finalise it, and play it back on the Naim, no such effect is seen, so it must be something in the Sonys' playback decoding which is producing it. I don't know whether this applies to pre-recorded DVDs on the 710 and 860 in my study as I never use the Sonys for that kind of playback, but I have noticed it on pre-recorded commercial DVDs when using the 710 in the living room. It's not a very obvious thing, but like many other minor problems, once you're aware of it, it can become very annoying. I suspect that this is one part of 'getting what you pay for', and is really a minor thing in the context of the price of the 870

After having the 710 for a good 18 months + I believe I can comment on the above:

Remote's are very personal, what one person likes another person doesnt, I have found the 710 a particularly nice one to use but am happy to accept others dislike it

As to your strange decoding problem, I can happily state that the 710 I had didnt once do this in everyday use on pre-recorded dvd's (I seldom archive, just use the hdd for something I want to keep) or recordings from the hdd. This was also a multi-region version so I was using R1 and R2 discs frequently and never had a single problem that was noticable

Im not saying the 710 was a pefect device by any means but considering the opposition at the time and even whats available now it was for me a decent purchase.

[John Martin]

Originally Posted by HugoFJH

After having the 710 for a good 18 months + I believe I can comment on the above:

Remote's are very personal, what one person likes another person doesnt, I have found the 710 a particularly nice one to use but am happy to accept others dislike it

Im not saying the 710 was a pefect device by any means but considering the opposition at the time and even whats available now it was for me a decent purchase.

I'm OK with the 710 remote's layout. What I don't like is the fact that you can press a button and nothing happens. I often have to really press hard on a button to make it work. As I said 'spongy' The 860 remote has the same 'feel' and occasional lack of responsiveness. The 870 remote never gave me any problem in that regard.

[Rosco83]

First post guys, hello to you all

Been lurking on the site for a while now and after some excellent pros and cons from another thread i decided upon a purchase of:

Sony KDL40W2000
Sony RDR-HXD870 (Free @ John Lewis)

Took delivery of them today and have been fiddling about for a good few hours now. Unfortunately, i'm having problems when trying to connect my EuroVox in that i'm unable to record what is shown on the TV from the box. The TV has no probs in displaying the image through either AV1 or AV2 but can't get the HDD to capture.

Can anyone please suggest a suitable method of connection (and settings adjustment?) to allow it all to work?

I have scart and RF cables at the moment, yet to buy HDMI cable.

PS. The EuroVox has 2x Scart (TV & Video) and 2x RF sockets (IN & OUT).

Cheers in advance,
Rosco.

[Tam1]

If i may ask what is probably a completly noobie question:

Can the 860 (or even 870) do live recording, similar to sky+ so if suddenly you want to rewind and watch something you can (say upto 30 mins in the past), or do you have to make it record each program in order to rewind?

If not, can you leave it on record constantly and get it to delete the data after x hours?

[John Martin]

Originally Posted by Tam1

If i may ask what is probably a completly noobie question:

Can the 860 (or even 870) do live recording, similar to sky+ so if suddenly you want to rewind and watch something you can (say upto 30 mins in the past), or do you have to make it record each program in order to rewind?

If not, can you leave it on record constantly and get it to delete the data after x hours?

Not in the sense you mean. You can pause live TV when what it does is to start recording from the point you pause, but you have to have been recording the program if you want to rewind to an earlier part of the program.

I often use one of my DVD recorders in this way, so I don't have to watch the adverts!

[Tam1]

Originally Posted by John Martin

Not in the sense you mean. You can pause live TV when what it does is to start recording from the point you pause, but you have to have been recording the program if you want to rewind to an earlier part of the program.

I often use one of my DVD recorders in this way, so I don't have to watch the adverts!

Hmmm okay, i understand.... thats a shame.

Is there anything on the market which can do this, or is it just a sky+ thing that manages to do it?