Panasonic EX77 - Hard drive better quality than DVD-R?

[gordon k]

My dad's just come into a Panasonic EX77, which I know has a hard drive as well as a DVD recorder.

Was wondering whether the recording quality from the built-in Freeview tuner is likely to be better going to the hard drive than going to a DVD-R(W) - since in theory it wouldn't need to go thru the DVD encoder.

Or would there be no real difference with a standard definition Freeview signal?

[Gavtech]

Originally Posted by gordon k

My dad's just come into a Panasonic EX77, which I know has a hard drive as well as a DVD recorder.

Was wondering whether the recording quality from the built-in Freeview tuner is likely to be better going to the hard drive than going to a DVD-R(W) - since in theory it wouldn't need to go thru the DVD encoder.

Or would there be no real difference with a standard definition Freeview signal?

The recording quality will be exactly the same [ all other things being equal - such as recording quality] because the recording is laid onto the HDD in the encoded form... which is how it is possible to high speed copy [ i.e digital cloning or straight copying] onto an DVD from the HDD.

[gordon k]

Aha - cheers Gav!

Would be nice, though, if they gave you the option to record it unencoded.

And included an HD tuner, and free sweets, and...

[Gavtech]

Originally Posted by gordon k

And included an HD tuner, and free sweets, and...

If I ruled the world.....

[bigmin]

Hi Gavtech,

I have previously been used to a Pace PVR (with 80GB HDD) and the quality of the picture is the same whether off air or recorded. This is presumably because it records the transport stream.
In the case of my new Panasonic EX79, and I presume all their previous HDD+DVD recorders, the user is offered a choice of two “Recording Formats”viz: “Video Format” or “VR Format”, which I presume are programme stream and transport stream respectively. The encoding, you mention, must be to convert to the programme stream i.e. “Video Format”, as you speak of high speed copying. The “VR Format” must presumably be the transport stream.
Is this just the same as my Pace and would you expect any any improvement in picture quality when using this “VR Format” rather than the “Video Format” on the EX79 and its forebears when playing back from the HDD?

bigmin

[Gavtech]

Originally Posted by bigmin

Hi Gavtech,

I have previously been used to a Pace PVR (with 80GB HDD) and the quality of the picture is the same whether off air or recorded. This is presumably because it records the transport stream.

Yes.

Originally Posted by bigmin

In the case of my new Panasonic EX79, and I presume all their previous HDD+DVD recorders...

The option was only introduced with the EX78 ranges IIRC.

Originally Posted by bigmin

....the user is offered a choice of two “Recording Formats”viz: “Video Format” or “VR Format”, which I presume are programme stream and transport stream respectively. The encoding, you mention, must be to convert to the programme stream i.e. “Video Format”, as you speak of high speed copying. The “VR Format” must presumably be the transport stream.
Is this just the same as my Pace and would you expect any any improvement in picture quality when using this “VR Format” rather than the “Video Format” on the EX79 and its forebears when playing back from the HDD?

bigmin

Neither are transport stream. They are both encodings for DVD standards and conditioned by the quality mode setting and so must be encoded.

The new Freesat/bluray machines are the first removable disc recorders that have offered, what they call a direct record 'DR' mode... which does record the transport stream.

In this case, when it comes to transferring to DVD, there is no high speed option because the encoding stage has to be done at the copy event and so must be done in real time.
[ Note that bluray discs will accept the DR mode recording and so the recording can be transferred at high speed under those circumstances as no encoding stage is required at all. ]

[bigmin]

Hi Gavtech,

Thank you for your explanations, in particular that the EX79 does not record in transport stream.

I wonder, are you then able to explain the differences between “Video Format” and “ VR Format”? You mentioned that they were related to quality mode settings, but the user manual seems to allow all recording modes in both recording formats.

I realise that an HDD recording must be in “Video Format”, i.e. programme stream, if high speed copying will be needed afterwards (other than to RAM). The manual recommends using “VR Format” if high speed copying is not expected. So, something is not being properly explained by Panasonic.

Thank you, again, for all the help you provide to us all.

Regards

bigmin

[Gavtech]

Originally Posted by bigmin

I wonder, are you then able to explain the differences between “Video Format” and “ VR Format”? You mentioned that they were related to quality mode settings, but the user manual seems to allow all recording modes in both recording formats.

They do. My point in mentioning the quality modes was simply to show that if variable quality modes are available - which they are with every recording, then that indicates that every recording is going through the encoder.
The only time the encoder is not invoked is when high speed copying from one medium to another.

Originally Posted by bigmin

I realise that an HDD recording must be in “Video Format”, i.e. programme stream, if high speed copying will be needed afterwards (other than to RAM). The manual recommends using “VR Format” if high speed copying is not expected. So, something is not being properly explained by Panasonic.

Thank you, again, for all the help you provide to us all.

Regards

bigmin

When DVD's were first conceived they were not envisioned as recording media.... but naturally much technological development occurred and gradually recordable types emerged and over time were improved upon.

They were also developed before digital TV transmission emerged, which has different technical requirements and so, unsurprisingly the systems are not compatible.

Each DVD development has had to find a way of fitting into the existing infrastructure. Consumers don't want to have to buy a new machine for every incremental development and are only prepared to do so when there is a quantum leap.. [e.g. Bluray]

That has left us with the kind of mess we are in now with the main five different DVD format types and their associated recording mode forms.

The original universal commercial DVD is based upon the DVD Video format.

It is the one type that can reasonably expected to play anywhere - given that one expects a Commercial DVD to play anywhere.
But the way this format is structured does not lend itself to editing very well ...which was one of the driving forces of the development of the VR format.

So to get back to your original question, you will not see any differences in terms of picture quality. These modes have no impact on that.
They impact on editing accuracy, ease of transferability, and compatibility.

For general best use with the mainstream Japanese 'origin' recorders - Use the default mode settings [ for both quality and recording mode type ] , High speed copy when archiving to disc.. to '-' type discs only [ Reason: Aspect limitation with '+' types ]