[grahamricho]

Hi looking for a second hand amp module for my dead Kef sub ? thanks

[IronGiant]

I doubt you'll find one but good luck

Dave

[Moonfly]

Me too, for about a year now. I'll just go buy one soon I think

[Nimby]

Buy one between you and then you can each use it on odd and even weekends.

[hoppaz]

Guys I found this some time ago it may be of use as an alternative...

O Audio - 500W BASH Subwoofer Amplifier

Shipped (before tax and VAT) it cost $275 USD which using today's exchange rate works out about £166.

Hope it helps

[Nimby]

If your job had been exported to China you might suggest BK's products are vastly superior in being home made (if you see what I mean) and offering full support via local phone and email. They will even run tests to confirm certain details match your exact needs and then reply by email with graphs and a technical write up. But for god's sake don't tell Graham! I bet BK's products also match their published specs. The difference in price after freight and import duty and VAT and hassle on top of everything is a round of drinks at the pub. But who cares about BK(UK) when you can support China's slave wage, global domination and jobs at home are completely expendable.

http://www.bkelec.com/Modules/Images/bsb500s.jpg

[hoppaz]

I am all for keeping industry and jobs in the UK but I would wager a large amount of money that BK's amp plates will be made using the same type of components that are made in China (and possibly Taiwan) so your point is largely irrelevant as money is flowing back to these "slave wage" countries anyhow.

The difference nowadays is that instead of producing these widgets and components and exporting them so Western countries can assemble, manufacture and make the profit, China is actually going one step further and doing this themselves which is putting a lot of noses out of joint in the world (including yours it appears).

Global domination most definitely it is as the West is now seeing the money it used to generate (at the mere cost of slave labour) flow back into China where there are more and more people becoming millionaires every week. Pretty ironic eh?

However, if BK do offer graphs, customisation etc then the personalised service should be taken into account. Whatever is best for the needs of the individual, my option was after all an alternative suggestion.

[Moonfly]

If BK are sourcing components though, they have quality control over those components. If you source an amp from china, and a cheaper one, you have no control over the components there in. The red M&K amps you now see are an example of this. These are cheaper, china sourced amps, and there have been reliability issue with those, where as, the previous ones that cost a little more, and were used before the buy out, didnt suffer the same.

Some times the build quality can make as much difference as anything else. Things are usually cheaper for a reason.

[Nimby]

Given the high volume, low cost production of Chinese components I doubt there are many competitors left any more. That does not mean that manufacturers cannot build excellent products with those parts using home grown staff in British/European factories. They can specify tighter tolerances and properly tested components at marginally higher expense. They can also insist on reasonable working conditions via approved contractors: i.e. No young children sleeping under the benches between 18 hour shifts. Or treading mercury (or other toxic materials) in a factory run by an 18th century billionaire, communist party psychopath.

[Russell.Williams]

I was reading that, given the current and likely sustained weakness of the pound, a number of electronics manufacturers were moving their manufacturing/assembling back to the UK.

The argument goes that the costs aren't as simple as lower wage/material/manufacturing prices. There are other costs, such as continually visiting the manufacturer to inspect quality (if the client actually cares) and before that, you have the issue of prototyping costs, that may only result in proving that a proposed product is uneconomic to manufacture. These peripheral costs are vastly reduced if it's a company just down the road, rather than a 24hr air fair away.

It will still make sense to manufacture the low ticket, high volume products in the far east, but plate amps don't fall into that category, even if their constituent components do.

Russell

[hoppaz]

Maybe I should have explained myself a bit more I have been travelling worldwide with my job since 2001 and that includes regular trips to China, HK, Singapore, Vietnam etc.

Ok I would have said that when I first went out there that quality was a major issue but now a lot of Chinese companies have ISO quality assurance procedures now and can produce consistent and high quality items.

The issue isn't with quality control and inspection at the UK end (because by that time you would have a box of widgets in the UK and 10 out of 100 might have been below standard). It was more about educating the Chinese that every widget needs to be 100% correct in the first place. Some companies had foreign people running the plant and overseeing the inspection because of this.

However, nowadays I would say that the quality is very much improved. Why? Simply because the Chinese government, despite being Communist, are allowing its people the opportunity to better themselves with entrepreneurial endeavour. People have recognised that the people who pay more are the ones that get the most work and those who get the most work are those who do it right in the first place.

The standard monthly wage in the East of China was about $80 USD when I was there last year. However people can make a lot more by working for a successful business so it’s in their best interest to make sure that anything they produce is perfect.

Its for this reason I very much doubt major electronic manufacturers would shift operations back to the UK because wages are often one of the biggest costs in any business and more notable for those who employ (or need to employ) hundreds and thousands of staff.

For example if you have a factory of 100 manufacturing staff in the UK each earning £1000 each per month that’s £100,000 every month you need to find before any other costs. If you have a factory of 100 Chinese workers per month, each at £49 (the current $80 GBP equivalent) then that’s £4,900 each month. This is before you take into account the higher rent and bills you’ll pay in the UK. You can see why so many things are made out there.

A lot of the major electronic manufacturers have factories out there and I would say that a lot of the electrical items in your home are made in China (and that includes Taiwan).

Ok there may be still some sweat shops here and there but even in China which is very family orientated I would say that the children are treated well in most cases (because china has the one child policy don’t forget) and those families with a child who don’t earn a lot will always put their child first. Even if the don’t have a lot they are always smiling.

My main gripe was the fact that the BK amp is brilliant when in fact it will be made using components from the same country that was said to have the “poor” sub standard amp (which by the way comes with a warranty should it go wrong). Does anyone know for sure that BK assemble their amps in the UK? They too might be bought in. I am not bashing BK but people seem quick to do some bashing of the amp I suggested for no other reason than it was Chinese.

That was of course putting service aside which I did say could be an influence.

[Nimby]

All things are relative. Even one's interpretation of a post concerning the issue of Chinese v home manufactured.

I argued from the beginning that exporting manufacturing to China was a fast track education for Chinese industrial might. China turns out lots of qualified engineers. What they lacked was the experience of centuries of Western refinement of their manufacturing processes and materials. The first Chinese tools to land here seemed to be mostly of recycled mild steel. The quality was crap. The product was short lived and rapidly moved to the discount supermarkets. Now all the builder's merchants are full of Chinese copies of European products. Prices have risen sharply and China is competing using acceptably European names.

My fear now is that the vast majority of unskilled labour jobs have been exported with nothing to replace them in the foreseeable future. These jobs are probably gone for good. Leaving a large number of untrained unemployed. With all the costs in benefits and increased ill health and crime prevention to the shrinking number of taxpayers. Pressures on expenditure have pushed out large numbers of "weaker" members of society. Those who once enjoyed paid work labouring within council manpower schemes.

This is not the place to discuss these issues but I maintain my stance that home manufacturing had a far more important social value than home labels. The Chinese product merely made prices attractive to a horribly spoilt consumer. Now there are serious social issues and rising tensions possibly leading to overt racism. Somebody has to be a scapegoat for mass unemployment.

If China should suffer another revolution to clear away the present, corrupt psychopaths then these cheap products will vanish overnight. Leaving a serious vacuum in global manufacturing. All monopolies are extremely unhealthy. Stifling progress, lowering productivity and raising prices.

If China remains stable and prices continue to rise with wage inflation and quality control then they will have no global customers to expert to. Meanwhile we at home are at a much increased risk of international conflict through increasingly extreme politics pandering to the jobless situation. The next ten years should be interesting.

[stuman]

Originally Posted by Nimby

All things are relative. Even one's interpretation of a post concerning the issue of Chinese v home manufactured.

I argued from the beginning that exporting manufacturing to China was a fast track education for Chinese industrial might. China turns out lots of qualified engineers. What they lacked was the experience of centuries of Western refinement of their manufacturing processes and materials. The first Chinese tools to land here seemed to be mostly of recycled mild steel. The quality was crap. The product was short lived and rapidly moved to the discount supermarkets. Now all the builder's merchants are full of Chinese copies of European products. Prices have risen sharply and China is competing using acceptably European names.

My fear now is that the vast majority of unskilled labour jobs have been exported with nothing to replace them in the foreseeable future. These jobs are probably gone for good. Leaving a large number of untrained unemployed. With all the costs in benefits and increased ill health and crime prevention to the shrinking number of taxpayers. Pressures on expenditure have pushed out large numbers of "weaker" members of society. Those who once enjoyed paid work labouring within council manpower schemes.

This is not the place to discuss these issues but I maintain my stance that home manufacturing had a far more important social value than home labels. The Chinese product merely made prices attractive to a horribly spoilt consumer. Now there are serious social issues and rising tensions possibly leading to overt racism. Somebody has to be a scapegoat for mass unemployment.

If China should suffer another revolution to clear away the present, corrupt psychopaths then these cheap products will vanish overnight. Leaving a serious vacuum in global manufacturing. All monopolies are extremely unhealthy. Stifling progress, lowering productivity and raising prices.

If China remains stable and prices continue to rise with wage inflation and quality control then they will have no global customers to expert to. Meanwhile we at home are at a much increased risk of international conflict through increasingly extreme politics pandering to the jobless situation. The next ten years should be interesting.

well put.

brit hifi for the win.