Audyssey Subwoofer distance settings

gperkins1973 · 15-11-2009, 9:53 PM

Hi there,

I ran Audyessy on my diy dual 18" sealed sub today and it came up with a really short distance of 0.3 metres. Can anyone explain why this is and what I can do to fix it if it is wrong.

One thing I did notice was that when the cal came around to the sub the radiator rattled. Would this have an effect on the distance calibrating.

cheers

Graham

Moonfly · 15-11-2009, 10:05 PM

Audyssey can be funny sometimes with distance settings sometimes. Make sure you do the Audyssey calibration closely following the guidelines. Ive found it very reliable myself.

gperkins1973 · 15-11-2009, 10:18 PM

Dan,

I do the same routine every time as I did with the PB sub. The difference this time was that the radiator was rattling. What causes Audyssey to give a distanct of 0.3m. There must be a reason for it.

cheers

graham

Moonfly · 15-11-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gperkins1973

Dan,

I do the same routine every time as I did with the PB sub. The difference this time was that the radiator was rattling. What causes Audyssey to give a distanct of 0.3m. There must be a reason for it.

cheers

graham

As far as I know, it simply measures in the time domain to detect the distance, but such a short distance is unusual. What is your measuring procedure exactly.

gperkins1973 · 15-11-2009, 10:36 PM

Dan,

I measure the centre of the first position (the rear centre of the sofa), then the second measure is the left hand rear of the sofa, the third is the right hand rear side of the sofa. Then I measure the front right of the sofa followed by the centre of the front of the sofa. Then finally the front left of the sofa.

I stay quiet as a mouse for the whole routine so I really don't know.

cheers

graham

Russell.Williams · 15-11-2009, 10:36 PM

This is NOT a DIY subwoofer question.

If the radiator is 0.3m from the microphone, you have your definitive answer although I would doubt that is the reason. In the past I have found Audyssey, when used with a microphone stand, to be extremely accurate.

Have you tried running Audyssey again to see if it gives the same result twice?

Russell

gperkins1973 · 15-11-2009, 10:39 PM

Russell,

The radiator is next to the where the sub is about the same distance away from the mic. I ran out of time this afternoon so I will do it again tomorrow when the kids are in bed and the other half has gone to work.

The wierd thing is that it sounds really good so what exact effect does the distance setting have.

cheers

graham

Moonfly · 15-11-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gperkins1973

Dan,

I measure the centre of the first position (the rear centre of the sofa), then the second measure is the left hand rear of the sofa, the third is the right hand rear side of the sofa. Then I measure the front right of the sofa followed by the centre of the front of the sofa. Then finally the front left of the sofa.

I stay quiet as a mouse for the whole routine so I really don't know.

cheers

graham

The initial measurements should only be at the back of the sofa if that is where your head is. First one should be your centre listening position and at head height. Then one to the left and one to the right. The go in front about a meter and take 3 more measurements. After the first one the order doesnt matter, but ensure they are all at head height.

gperkins1973 · 15-11-2009, 11:03 PM

Dan,

Thats what I did do.

cheers

Graham

Moonfly · 15-11-2009, 11:09 PM

Try again tomorrow then to see if you get the same result, if not then something's a miss somewhere.

namuk · 16-11-2009, 2:51 AM

Make sure no Ambient Noise i.e Clock ticking even Battery clocks

ect very sensitive the Mic , and shut windows (Sealed room) , and make sure the Mic is Line of sight of Sub or Speakers Even both .

you could try leaving Phase on "0" and upping the volume on sub By one notch and Maxing the Lfe Dial on Sub .

gperkins1973 · 16-11-2009, 6:25 AM

One issue may be the fan noise on the behringer amp. It is really noisy but it got the speaker distances bang on but no the sub. I don't have a phase as the subs are connected to the behringer amp.

With regards to the gain on the amp. Do I leave that as I have it now which is on 20db and also as I am using the crossover on the onkyo do I set this to 120hz.

I thinking it may be best to wait until I get a new fan or will the mic not pic that up. The amp is inbetween the sub and centre speaker on my TV cabinet.

cheers
Graham

Moonfly · 16-11-2009, 9:38 AM

To change the phase Graham, swap the positive and negative around on the amp, that will reverse the phase.

Amp gain is relative, you need the sub to output the correct volume by adjusting the subs own gain, and the trim level on the amp and have it correct in relation to your speakers at the listening position. Together these should bring your sub volume to where you need it. You could have the dials in different places but still have the actual levels correct depending how you balance the system.

gperkins1973 · 16-11-2009, 9:58 AM

Dan,

Behringer have advised setting the gain on the 4000 amp on FULL.

This was a reply from one of the guys on the other forum.

Quote:

According to Chris at Audyssey, this is an anomaly. I occationally get the same thing when I have the mic on a tripod. What seems to happen is that the audio is picked up through the floor and tripod instead of through the air. The floor is denser, so the sound travels faster, and the distance is off.

Chris said to just adjust manually to the physical distance, and confirm with REW if you can.

I also have had this with subs with no lowpass filters. The high frequency content is so far out of phase that you confuse Audyssey a little.

And regarding using the 'Phase' knob on your sub, I'd much rather use the distance setting in your processor. that is fully linear and work the same for all frequencies. The 'Phase' knob usually work over a frequency band and can mess up even more.

Kinda makes sense.

cheers

graham

Moonfly · 16-11-2009, 10:38 AM

That answers that then I guess. Try again but use stacked cushions instead of the tripod. I do and it stopped that distance issue arising again for me.

j0hn · 16-11-2009, 11:55 AM

wow that'd be a lot of cushions for the in front of the sofa measurements, would a small child suffice?

Moonfly · 16-11-2009, 12:05 PM

We have lots of cushions lol. I have actually done it by holding the mic myself, based on the premise I will be sat there when listening, and a tripod wouldnt. It didnt seem to affect the results one bit.

IMO, take your pick how you hold the mic in position, a tripod simply inst a necessity. It would seem that on occasion it can be a bad idea.

gperkins1973 · 16-11-2009, 12:29 PM

Dan,

So the fan noise from the amp wont have any effect on the calibration then.

cheers

Graham

Nimby · 16-11-2009, 1:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gperkins1973

Dan,

So the fan noise from the amp wont have any effect on the calibration then.

Graham

Yes. The fan is probably providing the only real bass you can see on your REW graphs.

You are at least -20dB down @ 25Hz yet you keep bashing the PB13??

Perhaps you can explain your valid criticisms when you don't have any real subwoofer bass to speak of? This despite having a brand new wardrobe and two excellent 18" drivers sititng in your living room?

Based on your response curves you couldn't sell your subwoofer on a car boot sale. Let alone make a global commercial success of it. As SVS has done for years and continues to do as they reap the rewards they so richly deserve for redefining the domestic subwoofer.

Here's a single 4" speaker in a sealed shoebox tested at exactly the same level as your wardrobe. Notice the similarities in the response curve?

Leave the SVS bashing alone until you have the slightest clue what you are talking about. You'll only embarrass yourself and us in having to listen to you spouting your endless ignorance of all things DIY and audio.

You have basked in the limelight of umpteen threads on multiple forums right across the internet. And probably increased the costs to other competent builders by wasting hours of speaker manufacturer's time on the telephone. Yet you still haven't a clue about subwoofers? Anybody who listens to your vacuous opinions about SVS products is a complete fool.

gperkins1973 · 16-11-2009, 2:53 PM

Nimby,

I suggest keep your comments to yourself and don't post any more comments on any of my threads. This forum really needs people like you. NOT! If you are not here to help and advise then leave well alone.

Graham

Nimby · 16-11-2009, 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gperkins1973

Nimby,

I suggest keep your comments to yourself and don't post any more comments on any of my threads. This forum really needs people like you. NOT! If you are not here to help and advise then leave well alone.

Graham

The Director:

Perkins Vacuum Cleaner and MDF Wardrobes.com.

Dear Sir,

Blow me! You have since long passed my level of tolerance regarding the spoon feeding of a complete novice while listening to your "unwise" pronouncements on SVS' finest. Your understanding of the forum system is deeply flawed. It is a two way exchange of information where we all learn from each other. You suck but you never blow.

Yours,

etc. etc.

gperkins1973 · 16-11-2009, 3:35 PM

God don't you ever shut up! Go and bore someone else with your silly and worthless comments!

:b oring:

Oh! I forgot to ask have you actually owned any of the PC13 ultra, the PB13 ultra and the PC12 plus?

Graham

Moonfly · 16-11-2009, 4:35 PM

I think I'll bow out of this one.

Graham, Nimby knows a great deal. Someone a lot can be learned from

gperkins1973 · 16-11-2009, 4:37 PM

Now you tell me what I can learn from those comments eh!

AngelEyes · 16-11-2009, 4:45 PM

P*ss taking aside I completely agree with Nimby's point on your constant bashing of the PB13u, as Nimby points out you are in no position to do so with a response curve like that.

If your sub sounds clean it is probably as much to do with the missing bottom end as anything else. Once you have it EQ'd nice and flat it probably will be better than an SVS but it isn't at the moment.

Nimby probably could have communicated his criticism differently but any subtler and it probably would have been ignored.

Adam

Moonfly · 16-11-2009, 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gperkins1973

Now you tell me what I can learn from those comments eh!

Those comments in particular, nothing about subwoofery, but plenty about etiquette.

I dont think you realise how you come across most of the time Graham.

gperkins1973 · 16-11-2009, 5:01 PM

I really dont know what you all mean by missing bottom end. I have plenty of low end bass. Alot more than I did with the PB13. I also think the fact that no one else has owned all three SVS subs and have also heard them in my living room. I have full right to say the things I do about the SVS subs as I am not and never had said they were bad subs at all, they just didn't sound that great to me with music. Movies they are great subs but they are not the most musical subs and mine is alot better with music than any of the subs in question and it is not even set up yet.

cheers

Graham

AngelEyes · 16-11-2009, 5:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gperkins1973

I really dont know what you all mean by missing bottom end. I have plenty of low end bass. Alot more than I did with the PB13. I also think the fact that no one else has owned all three SVS subs and have also heard them in my living room. I have full right to say the things I do about the SVS subs as I am not and never had said they were bad subs at all, they just didn't sound that great to me with music. Movies they are great subs but they are not the most musical subs and mine is alot better with music than any of the subs in question and it is not even set up yet.

cheers

Graham

According to your graphs you have sod all Deep bass, a -3dB point of around 30hz if that and a horridly lumpy response. Making sweeping statements about how good this is just underlines Nimby's point really.

You may not see you comments about SVS as being negative but that us how they come across and this sort of thing can be damaging especially when taken out of context or not actually even accurate.

Right now a PB13u would measure a lot deeper in room than your sub does due to it's flatter response.

Adam

Moonfly · 16-11-2009, 6:24 PM

Graham,

I think you are confusing deep bass, with a certain sounding bass. You obviously have a great affinity for the sound you have now, and that is fine, but as it stands the Ultra is cleaner and better performance wise.

At the end of the day we are after our own sound, and well done for achieving that, but I'm surprised no one piped up about the Ultra comments sooner as they were simply incorrect, if only from a technical standpoint. The fact your having obvious issues with Audyssey, and seem to be having difficulty getting REW to run correctly further compound the issue and peoples subsequent attitude towards your rubbishing of the Ultra, so to speak. No one has a problem with someone having difficulties, but at least iron those out before airing views with authority. Just some thoughts.

Anyway, can you post your latest sub graph waterfall, I would be interested to see it.

Nimby · 16-11-2009, 6:52 PM

The SVS Ultra is arguably the most desirable commercial subwoofer readily available in Europe and is on every AV fan's shopping list if they can afford it.

I wonder how much damage Graham has done personally to SVS sales in the UK and Europe?

I bet he's the toast of the SVS distributors across Europe and perhaps even further afield. If they're not drowning their sorrows!

Yet this self-appointed "critic" quite obviously doesn't know a decent subwoofer it it fell on him! One might argue that he is unfit even to own an Ultra let alone badmouth the product.

I'd have no hesitation in downsizing from my 8 x 15" IB to a PB13 or a PCU if it was necessary. On global acceptance of these subwoofers, as fine products, I need have no qualms at all. If it is better my big budget cylinder I can't lose!

Graham, on the other hand, thinks his wardrobe size ghetto blaster (with Himalayan-style response curve) is infinitely better. This after 35-odd pages of endless, basic questions on this forum alone.

Perhaps you should decide for yourselves whether this particular person is fit to dictate your buying choices. Doesn't this tell you more about the critic rather than the product?