[AngelEyes]

Hi Chaps,

As it seems like a few forum members are or have used the Behringer EP range of amplifiers for their DIY subwoofer projects, I thought I would add a few tips on reducing the excessive fan noise from the Behringers.

There are a few similar tutorials on the net but my own opinion and method varies slightly so I thought I would post my own take on it. However it may be worth Googling the others for a different opinion/method.

The Behringers are designed for the hardships of Live Gigs, being run more or less at their limits for extended periods of time. With this in mind a high capacity, high RPM Fan is installed to take care of the cooling needs.

Although we kid ourselves we and our subwoofers are 'hardcore,' it is unlikely these amps will even raise an eyebrow compared to the rigors they were designed for. With that in mind replacing the fan for a quieter (lower speed and capacity) model shouldn't present any problems. As long as the air is being moved through the heatsink tunnel it should remain fine, although I suggest anyone undertaking this modification runs keeps an eye on the temperature and be aware it is likely to void any warranty.

By default air is drawn in unfiltered through the back of the unit, forced through the heatsink tunnel and then passes through a dust filter out the front of the unit.

At first inspection this doesn't seem very logical, the dust filter traps the dust on the inside of the amp, making cleaning it a problem without removing the top of the amp. Most of the other guides I have read on this subject suggest replacing the fan 180 degrees to the original position so air is drawn in through the front filter, through the heatsink and ejected from the back of the case. It seems much more logical and I can see why many have chosen this route.

My own experience with modding PC cases is that pushing air through a heat sink seems to work much better than pulling it through, especially when there is a gap between the fan and the heatsink as air tends to get drawn in from the sides as much as anywhere else. With this in mind it seems better to stick with Behringer's somewhat flawed design of trapping the dust on the inside and let's face it, if it really was a problem, Behringer would have changed it long ago. I haven't done any back to back testing so please make up your own minds.

This also works much better for me because my amp will sit in a cupboard and I would much prefer an exhaust heat to be ejected from the front. If you also bear in mind the (hopefully) cleaner environment a home provides I can't see the dust accumulation ever becoming a problem. I suggest you choose the method you are most comfortable with.

Unlike PC fans, the Behringer uses a 24v fan so don't try fitting a PC fan, it may work but it will be running at full chat, probably just as noisy and may not last very long.

I settled on Papst as they seem to give the most information about their products and they seem decent quality. I opted for the quietest model I could find at 12dB, the 80x80x25mm 8414NGL, which is around £15 from RS or Farnell.

Installation is fairly straightforward but before you start please take care about electric shock and make sure the power has been disconnected for some time to allow any stored electricity to be dissipated.

1. Remove the screws securing the lid of the Amp case, located at the very top of the case, 4 on each side and 5 on the rear. There are also 4 on the top of the lid secured directly into the heat sink.
2. Lift the lid from the rear which is secured at the front by some location slots, you can then simply pull the lid away.
3. If you follow the wires from the fan to the circuit board you will probably find a large blob of glue holding the plug to the circuit board just in front of the power socket. I used some small pliers to remove the glue but a craft knife would probably work just as well. It is tough stuff so be careful not to knock anything whilst you prise it off.
4. Once the glue has been removed you should be able to easily remove the small 2 pin plug from the socket.
5. Remove the 4 long screws that secure the fan, the fan guard and the fan shroud, that directs the airflow through the heatsink.
6. I couldn't find a suitable place to buy a 'single' 2 pin plug to attach my new fan to so I decided to simply cut the plug and a short length of cable from the original fan. I soldered the wires together and secured with heat shrink plastic for a neat finish but you could probably get away with securely splicing the wires and wrapping with electrical tape.
7. Replace the Fan (in your chosen orientation) and secure as before by passing the screws through the fan guard, chassis, fan and into the fan shroud.
8. Replace the lid and all the screws!

Extra Modifications

After completing the above I was a little disappointed to find the fan that whilst running in my hand was completely silent, had started to buzz once installed. The low level buzz is so much quieter than the original fan, it may not bother some people but I figured, 'in for a penny...'.

I experimented with some rubber and silicon washers I happened to have lying around from old PC cases and fans I have accumulated over the years.

To achieve true silence from the fan it has to be completely physically isolated from the case, which means not using the screws at all and using stretchy rubber fasteners that you pull through the fans and into the chassis. Under normal circumstances this would have been fine but here with the fan shroud as part of the fan assembly, there was no way to make this work without drilling out larger holes in the fan shroud.

I settled on using 2 washers for each screw mounting (note I cut the 'white' washers in two or they would have been to thick) in between the fan guard and the chassis and again on the inside of the case between the chassis and the fan itself. This still did not result in a completely silent operation as some vibration was still carried through the screws to the chassis but is was much reduced and about as silent as I was going to achieve without modding the chassis or fan shroud.

I hope this helps someone out and if you spot any mistakes or omissions, please let me know.

Adam



(Thanks to those lurkers here from whom I have borrowed, you know who you are )

[Nimby]

Y'all didn't mention your guarantee is now void.

No use telling them you aren't into hardcore if it dies on you.

The first thing they'll look for is the sticky tape on the fan wires.

Easiest way to check overheating is to put the outdoor sensor of an in/out digital thermometer on the top of the case. Mine never gets more than 10F above ambient.

Those with BFDs should remember to switch on the BFD first and turn it off last after switching off the big amp.
If you forget you'll get a terrifying whomp from the the sub.
The capacitors take a while to drain after switch off so be patient.

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Y'all didn't mention your guarantee is now void.

Originally Posted by AngelEyes

I suggest anyone undertaking this modification runs keeps an eye on the temperature and be aware it is likely to void any warranty.

Oh yes he did

[gperkins1973]

Nimby,

Thanks for letting us know about the thumping thing going on with the BFD. Must remember that when I get mine.

Will it do the same thing with the Anti Mode?

cheers

Graham

[MI55ION]

If it does require warranty, could people not simply replace the original fan in its place? Or is there a tamper proof seal or something similar?

[AngelEyes]

There was no tamper seal but I suspect any burred screwheads will give you away as will the missing 'glue' that holds the fan plug in place and this is assuming you didn't butcher the plug from the original fan.

I think it is a safe bet any warranty claims will be void or at least subject to Behringers discretion.

For me it is a non issue as I bought my amp second hand, if it was new I would have probably gone to greater lengths to cover my tracks

Adam

[Nimby]

Thanks, Dave. Missed that bit. But still worth reiterating.

If memory serves (what memory?) I searched high and low for the correct plug to fit the quiet fan, bare leads onto the EP2500 circuit board. (The plug is an oddball from yesteryear)

This allowed me to swap fans without any modification or cutting wires except for the hot glue blob removal on the original fan wires.

My guarantee is probably well up by now so it hardly matters. But the amp was still quite new as I delved.

The Cunning Master Plan B was that, in the event of a DOA, (Dead On Awakening) I could replace the original fan and just put a drop of hot glue where it really mattered.

Oh. Suit yourselves! You will anyway.

[MI55ION]

Mmm, was wondering, why does the EP2500 cost more than the 4000? I mean isn't the 4000 the replacement to the EP2500 with greater power and I presume better performance.

[Moonfly]

Originally Posted by gperkins1973

Nimby,

Thanks for letting us know about the thumping thing going on with the BFD. Must remember that when I get mine.

Will it do the same thing with the Anti Mode?

cheers

Graham

Its even more of a thump with the anti mode during initial set-up. Ensure the gain is down on the sub.

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by MI55ION

Mmm, was wondering, why does the EP2500 cost more than the 4000? I mean isn't the 4000 the replacement to the EP2500 with greater power and I presume better performance.

The word on the street is that the 4000 is a marketing ploy to wet the appetites of the gullible.

Nothing has really changed except that peak levels have now replaced claimed RMS.

Or, if you want to get really technical: The 4000 is to B&D as the 2500 is to Bosch.

[gperkins1973]

I think you'll find you have got that wrong. The 4000 is more expensive than the 2500 and has more power at rms rating

They do have the EPX versions out as well, so I don't know if they are replacing the EP ones.

2400 watts rms bridged into 4 ohms compared to 4000 watts rms bridged.

cheers

Graham

[Moonfly]

I think the debate is somewhat fuelled by the fact both units consume pretty much the same amount of power

[MI55ION]

Originally Posted by Nimby

The word on the street is that the 4000 is a marketing ploy to wet the appetites of the gullible.

Nothing has really changed except that peak levels have now replaced claimed RMS.

Or, if you want to get really technical: The 4000 is to B&D as the 2500 is to Bosch.

That's interesting, thanks Nimby.

If they're both the same then no worries.

Here's what a quick google shows today:

Behringer EP4000 £243.82

Behringer EP2500 £238.50

Strange because only last night the price of the 2500 was around £270.

Either way it seems a bargain.

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by gperkins1973

I think you'll find you have got that wrong. The 4000 is more expensive than the 2500 and has more power at rms rating

They do have the EPX versions out as well, so I don't know if they are replacing the EP ones.

2400 watts rms bridged into 4 ohms compared to 4000 watts rms bridged.

cheers

Graham

If you happen to know of a way of getting 4kw out of a 13A 230V plug do let us know.

[Moonfly]

Originally Posted by Nimby

If you happen to know of a way of getting 4kw out of a 13A 230V plug do let us know.

Split the end of the power cable so you can put 2 plugs on it

Disclaimer: dont anybody do that unless you want to burn your house down!!!

[Russell.Williams]

Originally Posted by Moonfly

I think the debate is somewhat fuelled by the fact both units consume pretty much the same amount of power

Scroll down the left of this page and download the brochure.

The EP4000 has a 'claimed' power consumption of 2600w against 1600w for the 2500. It weighs 2kg more too, which is quite a big difference unless it's down to the power supply transformer and reservoirs.

I do notice that the only time an EP4000 (or 2500 for that matter) makes it's claimed power output is into is into 2Ω and is quoted as peak, so it's a transient delivery. That does not require a way of extracting 4000w out of the theoretical maximum of 2990w (230V x 13A) wall socket. The max quoted RMS would require a continuous draw in the mains, but is only(!) quoted as 2x1400w @ 4Ω.

Now, how you get continuous 2800w output from a maximum power consumption of 2600w......

The figures for the EP2500 (which gets it's own brochure are strange. The continuous powers quoted for 2Ω & 8Ω are slightly up on the EP2000, but the 4Ω figures are the same. Go figure.

Still, we can have a closer look/comparison when my amp arrives as I weakened when I saw the EP4000 was only £6 more than the EP2500 and bought the bigger one.

Russell

PS. Of course this assumes that any of the quoted figures have a grounding in reality.

[gperkins1973]

Russel

I have the 4000 amp and will be running mine bridged into 4 ohms at 2400 watts rms as quoted by behringer. 2 ohm is 1200 watts per channel rms. I can run either as I went for dual 1 ohm subs.

cheers graham

[Moonfly]

Originally Posted by Russell.Williams

Scroll down the left of this page and download the brochure.

The EP4000 has a 'claimed' power consumption of 2600w against 1600w for the 2500. It weighs 2kg more too, which is quite a big difference unless it's down to the power supply transformer and reservoirs.

I do notice that the only time an EP4000 (or 2500 for that matter) makes it's claimed power output is into is into 2Ω and is quoted as peak, so it's a transient delivery. That does not require a way of extracting 4000w out of the theoretical maximum of 2990w (230V x 13A) wall socket. The max quoted RMS would require a continuous draw in the mains, but is only(!) quoted as 2x1400w @ 4Ω.

Now, how you get continuous 2800w output from a maximum power consumption of 2600w......

The figures for the EP2500 (which gets it's own brochure are strange. The continuous powers quoted for 2Ω & 8Ω are slightly up on the EP2000, but the 4Ω figures are the same. Go figure.

Still, we can have a closer look/comparison when my amp arrives as I weakened when I saw the EP4000 was only £6 more than the EP2500 and bought the bigger one.

Russell

PS. Of course this assumes that any of the quoted figures have a grounding in reality.

I went of what some one posted on a forum somewhere, serves myself right I suppose. Good to know the 4000 is a step up though, even if its only a small one.

At least you havent forgotten the art of investigation

[KWB1]

Is the Fan really that noisy on the 4000 out of the box? thinking of getting one or two of these for home cinema duties - I did have the Parasound Halo A51 for a while but sold it cause I was skint.

Is averyone that Bought this amp happy with the sound quality and power coming from it

Ken

[Russell.Williams]

Even with the fan upgrade, it's noisier than I would like for my front room. I drilled holes in a wall so I could mount it in another room.

Sound quality is a bit of a non issue for subwoofer use - sheer wattage and the ability to swing large currents are all that is really required.

Russell

[martiandancer31]

the ep2500 is a great subwoofer amp and believe it or not it's actually LESS noisy than the crown micro tech i'm going to power my dad's system with. It has great specs and does deliver a lot of power, but if you look inside one it looks like a chinese piece of crap. I was dissapointed anyways

Anyways for someone who listens to a lot of rap "music" i would not suggest doing the fan mod.

[KWB1]

Originally Posted by Russell.Williams

Sound quality is a bit of a non issue for subwoofer use - sheer wattage and the ability to swing large currents are all that is really required.

Russell

Sorry - my question may be in the wrong thread as I was referring to the ep4000 driving my full range loudspeakers and not a subwoofer.

Ken

[Russell.Williams]

In which case don't.

On the other hand, if you have "full range" speakers that require 2x1200w, or whatever it is Behringer claim, then an EP4000 may do the trick. My point is that PA speakers will love the power, but true hi-fi speakers would benefit from a better sounding amp of lower power.

Russell

[KWB1]

Originally Posted by Russell.Williams

In which case don't.

On the other hand, if you have "full range" speakers that require 2x1200w, or whatever it is Behringer claim, then an EP4000 may do the trick. My point is that PA speakers will love the power, but true hi-fi speakers would benefit from a better sounding amp of lower power.

Russell

Thanks Russell - have you compared the ep4000 to other power amplifiers then - there is a lot of discussion on the web regarding differences (if any) with different power amplifiers - I had the Parasound Halo a51 but had to sell - so looking at the ep4000 as a much cheaper alternative

Sorry to be off topic

Ken

Originally Posted by KWB1

Thanks Russell - have you compared the ep4000 to other power amplifiers then - there is a lot of discussion on the web regarding differences (if any) with different power amplifiers - I had the Parasound Halo a51 but had to sell - so looking at the ep4000 as a much cheaper alternative

Sorry to be off topic

Ken

The T.amp Proline amps are built like a tank inside and are not much more than the Behringer amps and are much more suited to sub duty.
2 ohm stable in stereo mode and 4 ohm stable in bridge when pushed, whereas although the Behringer amps claim they are, in reality when driven hard they ain't.

Also the T.amp Proline amps and even the normal T.amp versions are much better built inside, and put out the power in rms they say.

Here's some pic of the T.amp Proline inside:

THE T.AMP PROLINE 3000 - U.K. International Cyberstore

[Moonfly]

I run my Behringer amp in a 2 ohm load and it generally runs fine. The only thing that clipped it was a reference level test starting at 10hz, otherwise its been more than powerful enough.

[Russell.Williams]

And at the £469 that link lists the T.Amp at, you could buy nearly two Behringers with a bit of searching.

Finding amps that are better than the Behringers is not hard. Finding ones that are better for anything like the price is the difficult bit.

Russell

[Moonfly]

If I powered my sub from 2 Behringers I wouldnt have any problems at all. That said, if I ran my drivers off a channel each I probably could do that test without an issue.

In general use though, I have no issues at all under normal use.

[Prize78]

Just how noisy is the fan in the Behringer?? I'm looking to buy one of these, but is the fan noise that much of an issue?? There's virtually no alternative at that price point though is there??

[AngelEyes]

Originally Posted by Prize78

Just how noisy is the fan in the Behringer?? I'm looking to buy one of these, but is the fan noise that much of an issue?? There's virtually no alternative at that price point though is there??

Does it bother you when the missus is running a hairdryer and you are trying to listen to music?

Adam